Liberal Forum

Fuelman » 11 May 2026, 8:17 am » wrote: ↑

11 May 2026, 8:17 am

Sam Walton was estimated to be worth $8-25 billion when he died in 92'. After transferring 80% of Walmart stock ownership to his children.

Interesting stat on Walmart:

Walmart is estimated to make up 2.5% of US GDP.

Here are plenty of others:

30 Celebrities Who Have Reached Billionaire Status, Including Taylor Swift and Beyoncé https://share.google/qCGxmx0dIWiSVgIgZ

There is much to argue wether they actually earned that money with their own hands, but their Names are on the letterhead and they pay the taxes.

I consider the other two low hanging fruit - too easy; So let's work with old Sam. I have mad respect for Sam Walton. I believe he was a good man. Let's say he was worth 8 billion when he died. 

My grandfather was a commercial fisherman in the Pacific Ocean. He owned his own boat. He retired in 1964 with 40k, which grew to about four hundred hundred thousand before my Gramma died and left it to the kids. Let's use the 400k that his fortune became, rather than what it was when he died in 73. I'm curious if you believe that Sam Walton provided 20,000 times the value my grandfather did. 

I'm not trying to **** on anybody - not on sam or you or my grandpa. I'm just trying to plumb your thinking on this. I mean, ANYBODY can answer from the tautology. But what does your gut say? Did Sam Walton deliver 20,000 times my grand daddy's value to society, middle-manning products that other men produced?

You can say he "created jobs," but I argue that in truth, the market Sam Walton rode to wealth created those jobs. The consumers of those goods created those jobs. The producers of the goods created those jobs.

Sam didn't build that. 

If anything, Sam CUT jobs - because that's how ya **** win. You do it cheaper than the competition in a market when labor is your biggest cost after COGS. So, did Sam Walton out-contribute my grand daddy by 20,000 times, in your opinion?
 
 
 

She should be more concerned about her *** getting huge

Cannonpointer » 11 May 2026, 5:08 pm » wrote: ↑

11 May 2026, 5:08 pm

I consider the other two low hanging fruit - too easy; So let's work with old Sam. I have mad respect for Sam Walton. I believe he was a good man. Let's say he was worth 8 billion when he died. 

My grandfather was a commercial fisherman in the Pacific Ocean. He owned his own boat. He retired in 1964 with 40k, which grew to about four hundred hundred thousand before my Gramma died and left it to the kids. Let's use the 400k that his fortune became, rather than what it was when he died in 73. I'm curious if you believe that Sam Walton provided 20,000 times the value my grandfather did. 

I'm not trying to **** on anybody - not on sam or you or my grandpa. I'm just trying to plumb your thinking on this. I mean, ANYBODY can answer from the tautology. But what does your gut say? Did Sam Walton deliver 20,000 times my grand daddy's value to society, middle-manning products that other men produced?

You can say he "created jobs," but I argue that in truth, the market Sam Walton rode to wealth created those jobs. The consumers of those goods created those jobs. The producers of the goods created those jobs.

Sam didn't build that. 

If anything, Sam CUT jobs - because that's how ya **** win. You do it cheaper than the competition in a market when labor is your biggest cost after COGS. So, did Sam Walton out-contribute my grand daddy by 20,000 times, in your opinion?

Hmm, does your net worth at death signify the amount of value you added to the economy?  I think not. A fairly poor person that is a long term saver could end up with millions while the super rich guy decided to give his money away before death. Now do your little math exercise.

It doesn't make sense to me to compare your Grandpappy to Sam Walton. Literally everyone ends up at a different number in the end and doesn't really tell the story of ones life. 

We can look at some numbers concerning Walmart though.

Walmart is generally, on average, roughly 9% to 25% cheaper than Safeway and Albertsons, making it the more budget-friendly option. According to 2026 data, Safeway is about 8.8% more expensive than Walmart, while Albertsons is significantly higher at approximately 24.8% more expensive. 

Higher end food stores like Sprouts, Trader Joe's, etc. will cost you 25-40% more than Walmart.

90% of Americans live within 10 miles of a Walmart.

Walmart serves 190 million customers a month in the US, 2.2 billion annually.

Now consider that every transaction at Walmart saved the consumer 9-40%. That is a massive number and then multiply it by the 34 years since Walton died. The number is staggering.

I would say even in death Sam Walton adds value to consumers in a big way.

The Walton wealth doesn't bother me, I spend $500-800/ month at Walmart and Sam's club. Mostly Sam's. It saves me money.

What if Walmart never happened? Sam was content with his hand full of stores at the time.

I don't frown on people's wealth. ****, the "Shamwow" guy kicked my ***. $20k investment on a commercial and he sold millions of units in a 2-3 year period. Life takes you exactly to where you are.

  Now I know where you got your saltyness.



 

Fuelman » 13 May 2026, 10:44 am » wrote: ↑

13 May 2026, 10:44 am

Hmm, does your net worth at death signify the amount of value you added to the economy?  I think not. A fairly poor person that is a long term saver could end up with millions while the super rich guy decided to give his money away before death. Now do your little math exercise.

It doesn't make sense to me to compare your Grandpappy to Sam Walton. Literally everyone ends up at a different number in the end and doesn't really tell the story of ones life.

I could not agree more.

The issue is not whether one or the other of us wants to defend "equal outcomes." Neither of us do.

The issue is whether a system which allows men to amass more wealth than entire nations is a just one or an unjust one. At least, that is how I read the argument. You?

Fuelman » 13 May 2026, 10:44 am » wrote: ↑

13 May 2026, 10:44 am

We can look at some numbers concerning Walmart though.

Walmart is generally, on average, roughly 9% to 25% cheaper than Safeway and Albertsons, making it the more budget-friendly option. According to 2026 data, Safeway is about 8.8% more expensive than Walmart, while Albertsons is significantly higher at approximately 24.8% more expensive. 

Higher end food stores like Sprouts, Trader Joe's, etc. will cost you 25-40% more than Walmart.

90% of Americans live within 10 miles of a Walmart.

Walmart serves 190 million customers a month in the US, 2.2 billion annually.

Now consider that every transaction at Walmart saved the consumer 9-40%. That is a massive number and then multiply it by the 34 years since Walton died. The number is staggering.

I would say even in death Sam Walton adds value to consumers in a big way.

You make a fantastic argument. But you're using an outlier to do it - can we agree on that?

Let me be more direct. Cn you make a similar argument for - oh, say, Ted Turner? Warren Buffett? Have they added similar great value to society? (See what I did there? Great Value? )

Fuelman » 13 May 2026, 10:44 am » wrote: ↑

13 May 2026, 10:44 am

The Walton wealth doesn't bother me, I spend $500-800/ month at Walmart and Sam's club. Mostly Sam's. It saves me money.

Have card will travel. I do the same.

Fuelman » 13 May 2026, 10:44 am » wrote: ↑

13 May 2026, 10:44 am

What if Walmart never happened? Sam was content with his hand full of stores at the time.

I don't frown on people's wealth. ****, the "Shamwow" guy kicked my ***. $20k investment on a commercial and he sold millions of units in a 2-3 year period. Life takes you exactly to where you are.

  Now I know where you got your saltyness.

I will not stand for being called salty, sir. I am probably the most affable man on this board.

Anyone says different is a *** loving commie.
 

Cannonpointer » 13 May 2026, 10:53 am » wrote: ↑

13 May 2026, 10:53 am

I could not agree more.

The issue is not whether one or the other of us wants to defend "equal outcomes." Neither of us do.

The issue is whether a system which allows men to amass more wealth than entire nations is a just one or an unjust one. At least, that is how I read the argument. You?

You make a fantastic argument. But you're using an outlier to do it - can we agree on that?

Let me be more direct. Cn you make a similar argument for - oh, say, Ted Turner? Warren Buffett? Have they added similar great value to society? (See what I did there? Great Value? )

Have card will travel. I do the same.

I will not stand for being called salty, sir. I am probably the most affable man on this board.

Anyone says different is a *** loving commie.

People get richer than other countries mainly because of  property limitations and ownership within that country. Must suck to live there!

Yes, Walmart is definitely an outlier but a perfect example of the use of volume to create immense wealth. My guess is that AOC has no idea or she wouldn't have made the statement. Whatever endeavor an entrepreneur goes after must understand this key to success. IMHO.

Not one restaurant, 50 restaurants.

Buffet?
Supposedly, Buffet will give away 99% of his wealth. That deserves a statue somewhere.

Turner?
Don't know much about him but did find this interesting.

Billboard Advertising: Turner took over Turner Outdoor Advertising in 1963 after his father's death, turning the company around and expanding it.

That was my grandfather's job in Kansas. Plastering new Media on those roadside billboards. Went out with him in the late 60's, collect the scrapped off media and have a bonfire with fresh mators and bologna sandwiches for lunch. Life was much simpler back then. I wasn't having a fit due to no Internet connection.

I scratched up as much as I could along the way, it is what it is. The size of some rich guys bank account really wouldn't change that outcome even if government took all his money. What would I get? A few pennies?

 

Fuelman » 13 May 2026, 12:43 pm » wrote: ↑

13 May 2026, 12:43 pm

People get richer than other countries mainly because of  property limitations and ownership within that country. Must suck to live there!

Yes, Walmart is definitely an outlier but a perfect example of the use of volume to create immense wealth. My guess is that AOC has no idea or she wouldn't have made the statement. Whatever endeavor an entrepreneur goes after must understand this key to success. IMHO.

Not one restaurant, 50 restaurants.

Buffet?
Supposedly, Buffet will give away 99% of his wealth. That deserves a statue somewhere.

Turner?
Don't know much about him but did find this interesting.

Billboard Advertising: Turner took over Turner Outdoor Advertising in 1963 after his father's death, turning the company around and expanding it.

That was my grandfather's job in Kansas. Plastering new Media on those roadside billboards. Went out with him in the late 60's, collect the scrapped off media and have a bonfire with fresh mators and bologna sandwiches for lunch. Life was much simpler back then. I wasn't having a fit due to no Internet connection.

I scratched up as much as I could along the way, it is what it is. The size of some rich guys bank account really wouldn't change that outcome even if government took all his money. What would I get? A few pennies?

I think you are still talking about something else. I am discussing the relative merits of our financial (economic) system - specifically with regard to the minting of bilionaires. 

It seems to me there is something wrong with a system where the money comes in through labyrinthine mechanisms that favor billionaires over the common person. When billionaires decided that the common herd must beta test mRNI "vaccines" (they had to change the definition to call it that), their servants in government started bullying and threatening. Millions lined up like dumb cows and did what they were told. The all cause mortality rate among working people has skyrocketed in the aftermath.

If I had tried to disconnect from the grid in Las Vegas, men with guns would have come to my home and warned me. If I had persisted, they would have used to the state's power - up to homicide, if I had remained defiant - to force compliance. I was BUffett's customer, by God and by law, whether I liked it or not, no matter how much solar power I could produce and no matter my desire to be free of him. I had to pay at LEAST the connection charge.

The billionaire class can order up the overthrow of governments, and people will DEFEND that. @Deezer Shoove  on this very board this very merry month of may has insisted that venezuela HAD to be brought to heel as it had transgressed against our billionaires. And how did deezer know this? Why, the offended parties saw to it that he knew it. They control the media that he accesses. They buy and pay for the dissemination of the narratives he consumes. 

The billionaire class decided a decade back that it would be a nice way to fart in God's face if they could get morons in America to agree with men going into their daughters' showers and competing with them in sports. The uncounted millions of insults to decency and womanhood that have flowed from this will be impossible to redress. 

The question remains - can a person truly "earn" a billion dollars? What about a trillion? Should there be a line beyond which we stop playing dumb and admit that there is something rotten in the State of Denmark? Can we agree to draw the line at half a trillion? Is there ANY number you would find the accumulation of preposterous wealth to be cautionary?

 
 

Cannonpointer » 13 May 2026, 3:41 pm » wrote: ↑

13 May 2026, 3:41 pm

I think you are still talking about something else. I am discussing the relative merits of our financial (economic) system - specifically with regard to the minting of bilionaires. 

It seems to me there is something wrong with a system where the money comes in through labyrinthine mechanisms that favor billionaires over the common person. When billionaires decided that the common herd must beta test mRNI "vaccines" (they had to change the definition to call it that), their servants in government started bullying and threatening. Millions lined up like dumb cows and did what they were told. The all cause mortality rate among working people has skyrocketed in the aftermath.

If I had tried to disconnect from the grid in Las Vegas, men with guns would have come to my home and warned me. If I had persisted, they would have used to the state's power - up to homicide, if I had remained defiant - to force compliance. I was BUffett's customer, by God and by law, whether I liked it or not, no matter how much solar power I could produce and no matter my desire to be free of him. I had to pay at LEAST the connection charge.

The billionaire class can order up the overthrow of governments, and people will DEFEND that. @Deezer Shoove  on this very board this very merry month of may has insisted that venezuela HAD to be brought to heel as it had transgressed against our billionaires. And how did deezer know this? Why, the offended parties saw to it that he knew it. They control the media that he accesses. They buy and pay for the dissemination of the narratives he consumes. 

The billionaire class decided a decade back that it would be a nice way to fart in God's face if they could get morons in America to agree with men going into their daughters' showers and competing with them in sports. The uncounted millions of insults to decency and womanhood that have flowed from this will be impossible to redress. 

The question remains - can a person truly "earn" a billion dollars? What about a trillion? Should there be a line beyond which we stop playing dumb and admit that there is something rotten in the State of Denmark? Can we agree to draw the line at half a trillion? Is there ANY number you would find the accumulation of preposterous wealth to be cautionary?

I don't remember that reinterpretation.

DeezerShoove » 13 May 2026, 4:03 pm » wrote: ↑

13 May 2026, 4:03 pm

I don't remember that reinterpretation.

I have already remembered it twice, so you're covered. 
 

Cannonpointer » 13 May 2026, 4:06 pm » wrote: ↑

13 May 2026, 4:06 pm

I have already remembered it twice, so you're covered.

Cool.

Cannonpointer » 13 May 2026, 3:41 pm » wrote: ↑

13 May 2026, 3:41 pm

I think you are still talking about something else. I am discussing the relative merits of our financial (economic) system - specifically with regard to the minting of bilionaires. 

It seems to me there is something wrong with a system where the money comes in through labyrinthine mechanisms that favor billionaires over the common person. When billionaires decided that the common herd must beta test mRNI "vaccines" (they had to change the definition to call it that), their servants in government started bullying and threatening. Millions lined up like dumb cows and did what they were told. The all cause mortality rate among working people has skyrocketed in the aftermath.

If I had tried to disconnect from the grid in Las Vegas, men with guns would have come to my home and warned me. If I had persisted, they would have used to the state's power - up to homicide, if I had remained defiant - to force compliance. I was BUffett's customer, by God and by law, whether I liked it or not, no matter how much solar power I could produce and no matter my desire to be free of him. I had to pay at LEAST the connection charge.

The billionaire class can order up the overthrow of governments, and people will DEFEND that. @Deezer Shoove  on this very board this very merry month of may has insisted that venezuela HAD to be brought to heel as it had transgressed against our billionaires. And how did deezer know this? Why, the offended parties saw to it that he knew it. They control the media that he accesses. They buy and pay for the dissemination of the narratives he consumes. 

The billionaire class decided a decade back that it would be a nice way to fart in God's face if they could get morons in America to agree with men going into their daughters' showers and competing with them in sports. The uncounted millions of insults to decency and womanhood that have flowed from this will be impossible to redress. 

The question remains - can a person truly "earn" a billion dollars? What about a trillion? Should there be a line beyond which we stop playing dumb and admit that there is something rotten in the State of Denmark? Can we agree to draw the line at half a trillion? Is there ANY number you would find the accumulation of preposterous wealth to be cautionary?

You got a better economic system?

Why limit someone else's wealth? For what purpose?

There are people who believe everything bad in their life are caused by some rich guy pulling magical puppet strings.

I would have to agree with Deezer's statement that he didn't make. I take it your drugs got blown up on their way to the US?



 

Fuelman » 14 May 2026, 11:30 am » wrote: ↑

14 May 2026, 11:30 am

You got a better economic system?

Why limit someone else's wealth? For what purpose?

There are people who believe everything bad in their life are caused by some rich guy pulling magical puppet strings.

I would have to agree with Deezer's statement that he didn't make. I take it your drugs got blown up on their way to the US?

Sometimes I care enough to express my apathy.

Many times (not saying this is necessarily one of those) if I'm not angry at the right people,
I'm pigeon-holed into "supporting this" or "opposing that".

When all I really did was basically say I don't care or don't care enough to learn about it.
It's hard to defend apathy.   

DeezerShoove » 14 May 2026, 2:51 pm » wrote: ↑

14 May 2026, 2:51 pm

Sometimes I care enough to express my apathy.

Many times (not saying this is necessarily one of those) if I'm not angry at the right people,
I'm pigeon-holed into "supporting this" or "opposing that".

When all I really did was basically say I don't care or don't care enough to learn about it.
It's hard to defend apathy. 

    CP is still going to put you in a box regardless!
Right next to his "Nothing" box.
 

Fuelman » 14 May 2026, 11:30 am » wrote: ↑

14 May 2026, 11:30 am

You got a better economic system?

I don't know.

My thought is that we put a dome over wall street and go back to free enterprise instead of capitalism. A system where the government is not the sponsor and not the guarantor and not the accomplice - a system where businesses serve the market to dominate the competition rather than dominating the market with the government gun and forcing the customers to pay for this on a cost plus basis.

Fuelman » 14 May 2026, 11:30 am » wrote: ↑

14 May 2026, 11:30 am

Why limit someone else's wealth? For what purpose?

You are not giving my question honest consideration. I challenge you to show where I suggested limiting anyone's wealth. I asked if you believed obscene wealth is earned or stolen, and you went on a reactionary tirade accusing me of limiting someone.

Fuelman » 14 May 2026, 11:30 am » wrote: ↑

14 May 2026, 11:30 am

There are people who believe everything bad in their life are caused by some rich guy pulling magical puppet strings.

If that's happening, I have a clue who the marionette is. I'm watching him do trhe herky jerky dahnce.

Fuelman » 14 May 2026, 11:30 am » wrote: ↑

14 May 2026, 11:30 am

I would have to agree with Deezer's statement that he didn't make. I take it your drugs got blown up on their way to the US?

I have no idea what deezer isn't trying to say, or what you are trying to say. You seem upset.
 

Fuelman » 14 May 2026, 3:02 pm » wrote: ↑

14 May 2026, 3:02 pm

    CP is still going to put you in a box regardless!
Right next to his "Nothing" box.

That's because he resents that I've killed his father a few times.
Some people get touchy about **** like that.

Cannonpointer » 11 May 2026, 5:08 pm » wrote: ↑

11 May 2026, 5:08 pm

I consider the other two low hanging fruit - too easy; So let's work with old Sam. I have mad respect for Sam Walton. I believe he was a good man. Let's say he was worth 8 billion when he died. 

My grandfather was a commercial fisherman in the Pacific Ocean. He owned his own boat. He retired in 1964 with 40k, which grew to about four hundred hundred thousand before my Gramma died and left it to the kids. Let's use the 400k that his fortune became, rather than what it was when he died in 73. I'm curious if you believe that Sam Walton provided 20,000 times the value my grandfather did. 

I'm not trying to **** on anybody - not on sam or you or my grandpa. I'm just trying to plumb your thinking on this. I mean, ANYBODY can answer from the tautology. But what does your gut say? Did Sam Walton deliver 20,000 times my grand daddy's value to society, middle-manning products that other men produced?

You can say he "created jobs," but I argue that in truth, the market Sam Walton rode to wealth created those jobs. The consumers of those goods created those jobs. The producers of the goods created those jobs.

Sam didn't build that. 

If anything, Sam CUT jobs - because that's how ya **** win. You do it cheaper than the competition in a market when labor is your biggest cost after COGS. So, did Sam Walton out-contribute my grand daddy by 20,000 times, in your opinion?

"So, did Sam Walton out-contribute my grand daddy by 20,000 times, in your opinion?"

Obviously.

btw
You acknowledge that there is an inherent competition in this survival game called "society".
Your grandpapa did way better than somebody else, I'd bet.

DeezerShoove » 15 May 2026, 5:59 am » wrote: ↑

15 May 2026, 5:59 am

"So, did Sam Walton out-contribute my grand daddy by 20,000 times, in your opinion?"

Obviously.

btw
You acknowledge that there is an inherent competition in this survival game called "society".
Your grandpapa did way better than somebody else, I'd bet.

It's not as obvious to me. Walton was a middle man. He took what others produced, and he traded it for what still others had produced. 

My grand daddy was a producer. 

But even granting Sam Walton, you are ducking the question on the others I listed.
 

Cannonpointer » 15 May 2026, 9:22 am » wrote: ↑

15 May 2026, 9:22 am

It's not as obvious to me. Walton was a middle man. He took what others produced, and he traded it for what still others had produced. 

My grand daddy was a producer. 

But even granting Sam Walton, you are ducking the question on the others I listed.

There is no way to bail out Wall Street anymore..   Of course we could just prin our way out of it like we always have done.

700 Billion Dollar Bailout on 2008.  Obama should have let it fail then.  Xi Jinping is right.  We are in decline.. We have been for decades.

Debt higher than GDP, and Trump is spend baby spend on corrupt bullshyt to enrichen himself and amigos.

Trump is such an idiot..   But it is funny to see MAGA shift their scrotum sucking to Xi.

Globalism is a speeding bullet now.    Look, a bird, a plane! It's Super China!
 
 

JohnnyYou » 15 May 2026, 9:37 am » wrote: ↑

15 May 2026, 9:37 am

There is no way to bail out Wall Street anymore..   Of course we could just prin our way out of it like we always have done.

Bless your heart.

Patching the freeway, funding medicaid, funding medicare - there are plenty of things that can stop in order to spoon-feed billionairs (or as deezer and Fuelman might refer to them, the "producers).

Hell, son. They haven't even stolen your social yet.

JohnnyYou » 15 May 2026, 9:37 am » wrote: ↑

15 May 2026, 9:37 am

700 Billion Dollar Bailout on 2008.  Obama should have let it fail then. 

You speak as if Obama had agency in the matter. I have misgivings.

JohnnyYou » 15 May 2026, 9:37 am » wrote: ↑

15 May 2026, 9:37 am

Xi Jinping is right.  We are in decline.. We have been for decades.

Debt higher than GDP, and Trump is spend baby spend on corrupt bullshyt to enrichen himself and amigos.

Trump is such an idiot..   But it is funny to see MAGA shift their scrotum sucking to Xi.

Globalism is a speeding bullet now.    Look, a bird, a plane! It's Super China!

Lol. I don't see it quite that way.

Yes, we are in decline. But so was the rattle snake that killed my father. The US still has the biggest dick on the planet. It's just that its foes are not challenging it in the bedroom.

Trumpist’s seldom can count their fingers and toes, so AOC might be on to something

Cannonpointer » 15 May 2026, 9:44 am » wrote: ↑

15 May 2026, 9:44 am

Bless your heart.

Hell, son. They haven't even stolen your social yet.

I am working on getting what I can..   Summer is for  focus on the grandson...  Teach him real world minecraft.

You speak as if Obama had agency in the matter. I have misgivings.

Lol. I don't see it quite that way.

Yes, we are in decline. But so was the rattle snake that killed my father. The US still has the biggest dick on the planet. It's just that its foes are not challenging it in the bedroom.

Trump has increased the velocity of the decline supersonic.   One might say even intercontinenentally ballistic.
I told @Deezer Shoove   he better learn how to trim dollars out of his automotive designs.  

Trump gave Xi Taiwan..   It seems Trump didn't even try to get a kickback, but you know he did.   And China can dip into our chips now. We are going to have to beg for rare earths to keep up the military,  We really need whatever Ukrain has. But Zlensky is ready to **** the USA along with the rest of the civilized world.