Liberal Forum

The United States is interfering with and destroying governments which do not allow usury - all of which happen to be the Islamic nations.

All of those nations we have destroyed or are in the process of destroying have one thing in common: Ant-Usury laws.

All of those we trade with and are friendly with do not.

We are being used as the enforcer of the New World Order which our own pResident declared and which all subsequent pResidents have assiduously enforced. First we went to privately issued fiat currency, then we began to force others to do so.

The war aganst Islam has been marketed through the time-tested and long-used tricks of governments throughout history: Use false flag operations to produce the "problem" to which the "reaction" is your original intention. Want war with Spain? Sink your own ship in Havana Harbor. Want into WWII? Leave ships in port which you have advance warning will be bombed by the Japanese. Want to step up operations in Vietnam? Manufacture the Gulf of Tonkin Incident.

Want to wage war on Islam? Have the CIA create false flag groups like Al Qaeda and ISIS, and have the FBI create false crimes through their own agitation of young and impressionable citizens who, without being radicalized by their own government officials as pawns in a larger game, would almost certainly never have attempted the put-up offenses for which they were ensnared.

We are at war with Islam for one reason, and one reason ONLY. They won't play the Babylonian Money Magic game.

Cannonpointer » 20 Dec 2016 2:43 pm » wrote:The United States is interfering with and destroying governments which do not allow usury - all of which happen to be the Islamic nations.

All of those nations we have destroyed or are in the process of destroying have one thing in common: Ant-Usury laws.

All of those we trade with and are friendly with do not.

We are being used as the enforcer of the New World Order which our own pResident declared and which all subsequent pResidents have assiduously enforced. First we went to privately issued fiat currency, then we began to force others to do so.

The war aganst Islam has been marketed through the time-tested and long-used tricks of governments throughout history: Use false flag operations to produce the "problem" to which the "reaction" is your original intention. Want war with Spain? Sink your own ship in Havana Harbor. Want into WWII? Leave ships in port which you have advance warning will be bombed by the Japanese. Want to step up operations in Vietnam? Manufacture the Gulf of Tonkin Incident.

Want to wage war on Islam? Have the CIA create false flag groups like Al Qaeda and ISIS, and have the FBI create false crimes through their own agitation of young and impressionable citizens who, without being radicalized by their own government officials as pawns in a larger game, would almost certainly never have attempted the put-up offenses for which they were ensnared.

We are at war with Islam for one reason, and one reason ONLY. They won't play the Babylonian Money Magic game.

I thought Isis is our proxy

WE have anti-Usery laws doofus. What a ridiculous assertion.

Al Donal » 20 Dec 2016 9:00 pm » wrote:WE have anti-Usery laws doofus. What a ridiculous assertion.

24% interest is usury

Cannonpointer » 20 Dec 2016 2:43 pm » wrote:The United States is interfering with and destroying governments which do not allow usury - all of which happen to be the Islamic nations.

All of those nations we have destroyed or are in the process of destroying have one thing in common: Ant-Usury laws.

All of those we trade with and are friendly with do not.

We are being used as the enforcer of the New World Order which our own pResident declared and which all subsequent pResidents have assiduously enforced. First we went to privately issued fiat currency, then we began to force others to do so.

The war aganst Islam has been marketed through the time-tested and long-used tricks of governments throughout history: Use false flag operations to produce the "problem" to which the "reaction" is your original intention. Want war with Spain? Sink your own ship in Havana Harbor. Want into WWII? Leave ships in port which you have advance warning will be bombed by the Japanese. Want to step up operations in Vietnam? Manufacture the Gulf of Tonkin Incident.

Want to wage war on Islam? Have the CIA create false flag groups like Al Qaeda and ISIS, and have the FBI create false crimes through their own agitation of young and impressionable citizens who, without being radicalized by their own government officials as pawns in a larger game, would almost certainly never have attempted the put-up offenses for which they were ensnared.

We are at war with Islam for one reason, and one reason ONLY. They won't play the Babylonian Money Magic game.

Is this an Alex Jones type story? Why should anyone take this seriously?

Besides, we can just want cheap oil, can't we? I thought that was the reason for all these years...
Keep the little brown guys busy and bickering. Now there's bankers? ****.

deezer shoove » 20 Dec 2016 9:43 pm » wrote:
Is this an Alex Jones type story? Why should anyone take this seriously?

Besides, we can just want cheap oil, can't we? I thought that was the reason for all these years...
Keep the little brown guys busy and bickering. Now there's bankers? ****.

Do you dispute that all the nations we're attacking are nations with anti-usury laws? Or that those with whom we trade and are at piece allow it?

If not, you've not addressed the OP.

If so, you've not addressed the OP.

In summary, you've not addressed the OP.

Cannonpointer » 20 Dec 2016 11:07 pm » wrote:Do you dispute that all the nations we're attacking are nations with anti-usury laws? Or that those with whom we trade and are at piece allow it?

If not, you've not addressed the OP.

If so, you've not addressed the OP.

In summary, you've not addressed the OP.

I thought Isis was us? You have told us that since Reagan left office...

bigsky » 21 Dec 2016 12:00 am » wrote: I thought Isis was us? You have told us that since Reagan left office...

That's what I have always said - and still say in my OP.

Are you sundowning, old timer? Have the nurse take you to your room, son.

Al Donal » 20 Dec 2016 9:00 pm » wrote:WE have anti-Usery laws doofus. What a ridiculous assertion.

It's usury, not usery.

We allow what our laws once called usury. We changed the name to protect the guilty.

We allow usury by redefining usury.

Cannonpointer » 20 Dec 2016 11:07 pm » wrote:Do you dispute that all the nations we're attacking are nations with anti-usury laws? Or that those with whom we trade and are at piece allow it?

If not, you've not addressed the OP.

If so, you've not addressed the OP.

In summary, you've not addressed the OP.

True.
It would seem to be another nuanced subject that just leaves a lot of interpretation in any conclusions reached.
To address this here is automatically "taking a side". I don't find it compelling.

I do agree with your notion about redefining usury to suit circumstances. That sort of thing happens all the time.

In the automotive world, for example, I have seen product tests produce negative results.
Rather than improve the item in question, the standard that needs to be met gets "revised".
Sometimes it is fairly meaningless and just saves time and money; maybe allows a release date to be met.

Ultimately it is a cheat and should not become a regular business practice.

If, however, as you suggested it is allowing what was formerly bad activity to now slip past as SOP, why would anyone with a conscience be in favor of that?
Is this what you are saying has happened?




btw
The Angels in the OP title... Are these the nasty ones with subjugation and beheadings and all that in their playbook?

deezer shoove » 21 Dec 2016 3:31 pm » wrote: True.
It would seem to be another nuanced subject that just leaves a lot of interpretation in any conclusions reached.
To address this here is automatically "taking a side". I don't find it compelling.

I do agree with your notion about redefining usury to suit circumstances. That sort of thing happens all the time.

In the automotive world, for example, I have seen product tests produce negative results.
Rather than improve the item in question, the standard that needs to be met gets "revised".
Sometimes it is fairly meaningless and just saves time and money; maybe allows a release date to be met.

Ultimately it is a cheat and should not become a regular business practice.

If, however, as you suggested it is allowing what was formerly bad activity to now slip past as SOP, why would anyone with a conscience be in favor of that?
Is this what you are saying has happened?

I'm saying that Christianity disallows usury, as does Islam and as does Judaism - except as applied to the stranger.

The Islamic nations we attack are refusing to participate in fiat money. That is why we are attacking them.

And yes, subsequently and in response to an objection, I defended that thesis against an objection that we do not practice usury with the fact that we DO - we've just set the parameters lower to allow the act to pass inspection.

In the case of that auto manufacturer, the project manager had to put in a change request and have the engineers and legal sign off on it. In the case of our currency issuing rights being stolen by private bankers, we only had to have a few assassinations and a few bribes change hands.

deezer shoove » 21 Dec 2016 3:31 pm » wrote:btw
The Angels in the OP title... Are these the nasty ones with subjugation and beheadings and all that in their playbook?

I'm saying those cartoons of Islam are sometimes being generated by the manipulations of social control agents, and sometimes being manufactured in whole by those agents, and in rare cases actually occurring in response to provocations real or imagined.

I'm saying the Islamic nations we're trained to hate are the good guys and we are the bad guys.

I'm saying if you see a war, and one side is fighting because they were born here and one side is fighting because the bankers sent them here, your own manly nature should take little persuasion in determining who the **** are.

Cannonpointer » 21 Dec 2016 3:42 pm » wrote:I'm saying that Christianity disallows usury, as does Islam and as does Judaism - except as applied to the stranger.

The Islamic nations we attack are refusing to participate in fiat money. That is why we are attacking them.

And yes, subsequently and in response to an objection, I defended that thesis against an objection that we do not practice usury with the fact that we DO - we've just set the parameters lower to allow the act to pass inspection.

In the case of that auto manufacturer, the project manager had to put in a change request and have the engineers and legal sign off on it. In the case of our currency issuing rights being stolen by private bankers, we only had to have a few assassinations and a few bribes change hands.
I'm saying those cartoons of Islam are sometimes being generated by the manipulations of social control agents, and sometimes being manufactured in whole by those agents, and in rare cases actually occurring in response to provocations real or imagined.

I'm saying the Islamic nations we're trained to hate are the good guys and we are the bad guys.

I'm saying if you see a war, and one side is fighting because they were born here and one side is fighting because the bankers sent them here, your own manly nature should take little persuasion in determining who the **** are.

I won't get into the details of my example.
You got the basic idea even if you're not exactly right. Close enough.


The fact that mankind has always been at odds with itself is pretty old news.
Without trying to seem dismissive to the plight visited upon individuals, I think some folks look
at a battle and see a war while others look at that same battle and see a mere skirmish.

The world gets smaller with time and who even says "Going abroad" anymore or is actually that impressed
with the boasts of a person who's travelled around the world?

I understand the locals don't like that "eminent domain" ****.
Citizens don't like it in their own country and acting out that **** globally in other lands ain't a big hit either.
Either physically or culturally...

BUT

Poisoning the planet is borderless(physical). Subjugating a populace (cultural).
These things cause others to intrude for apparently "good" reasons.

I'm only saying that interference with other countries in general is here to stay.
There always seems to be ample stories, reasons, causes, etc. and bla bla bla for it to continue.
It becomes an educational nightmare to delve into the depths of every situation. Even experts have to specialize.

deezer shoove » 21 Dec 2016 4:13 pm » wrote:
I won't get into the details of my example.
You got the basic idea even if you're not exactly right. Close enough.

The fact that mankind has always been at odds with itself is pretty old news.
Without trying to seem dismissive to the plight visited upon individuals, I think some folks look
at a battle and see a war while others look at that same battle and see a mere skirmish.

The world gets smaller with time and who even says "Going abroad" anymore or is actually that impressed
with the boasts of a person who's travelled around the world?

I understand the locals don't like that "eminent domain" ****.
Citizens don't like it in their own country and acting out that **** globally in other lands ain't a big hit either.
Either physically or culturally...

BUT

Poisoning the planet is borderless(physical). Subjugating a populace (cultural).
These things cause others to intrude for apparently "good" reasons.

I'm only saying that interference with other countries in general is here to stay.
There always seems to be ample stories, reasons, causes, etc. and bla bla bla for it to continue.
It becomes an educational nightmare to delve into the depths of every situation. Even experts have to specialize.

Consider the OP my expert specialization, and know that I do not consider "it's always happened" as a justification for it continuing to happen or for us making it happen. People have always been murdered, but that does not justify my latest killing spree.

Let's not mince words. Islam is on the side of the angels.

Cannonpointer » 21 Dec 2016 4:18 pm » wrote:Consider the OP my expert specialization, and know that I do not consider "it's always happened" as a justification for it continuing to happen or for us making it happen. People have always been murdered, but that does not justify my latest killing spree.

Let's not mince words. Islam is on the side of the angels.

Well, I guess it gets back to the old argument: "It just doesn't have to be this way".
That idealistic point of view is very nice. Too bad that's just a goal while the journey is still messy.
The human race doesn't seem to cooperate though.



.........
My angels are the soft-spoken, floaty kind with presents.

deezer shoove » 21 Dec 2016 4:49 pm » wrote: Well, I guess it gets back to the old argument: "It just doesn't have to be this way".
That idealistic point of view is very nice. Too bad that's just a goal while the journey is still messy.
The human race doesn't seem to cooperate though.

Is this intended to justify our acceptance of the governments we vote for enforcing the NWO and fiat-money debt-slavery on the rest of humanity?

That's a serious question - your motives seem a little hard to pin down. What, precisely, are you trying to say about my thesis? Are the above and your other posts intended to AGREE? Are they intended to DISAGREE? Or are they a permutation of both - a "Yeah, BUT..."?

deezer shoove » 21 Dec 2016 4:49 pm » wrote:.........
My angels are the soft-spoken, floaty kind with presents.

My angels impel me to speak out against my government enslaving my brothers. Do yours impel you to accept it - defend it? Or are you also against this nation enforcing the New World Order's global fiat-money policy?

Cannonpointer » 21 Dec 2016 5:00 pm » wrote:Is this intended to justify our acceptance of the governments we vote for enforcing the NWO and fiat-money debt-slavery on the rest of humanity?

That's a serious question - your motives seem a little hard to pin down. What, precisely, are you trying to say about my thesis? Are the above and your other posts intended to AGREE? Are they intended to DISAGREE? Or are they a permutation of both - a "Yeah, BUT..."?
My angels impel me to speak out against my government enslaving my brothers. Do yours impel you to accept it - defend it? Or are you also against this nation enforcing the New World Order's global fiat-money policy?

It is admittedly a "yeah, but..." sort of position.

On one hand, it's like a fixed horse race for an amateur gambler. If I don't know WHICH horse is going to win (having no inside knowledge), then I have as good a chance at a random win as anyone.
Sure, it's random but takes no real effort to let it run its course. The "ignorance is bliss" method.

On the other hand, it would take lots of work, knowing people (unsavory to be sure), all in hopes of changing my chance at success. Knowledge, work, only a chance at making any difference at all.

So, in the Change the World, You Asshole method you are fomenting, I lack the drive to do more than assume the world is evil as hell... then enjoy the ride as best I can.

My Angels (should they exist) do not impel. I have a sad resignation that I don't wear on my sleeve. One of the little bastards sits on my shoulder once in a while though (I think...).

deezer shoove » 21 Dec 2016 6:14 pm » wrote:
It is admittedly a "yeah, but..." sort of position.

On one hand, it's like a fixed horse race for an amateur gambler. If I don't know WHICH horse is going to win (having no inside knowledge), then I have as good a chance at a random win as anyone.
Sure, it's random but takes no real effort to let it run its course. The "ignorance is bliss" method.

On the other hand, it would take lots of work, knowing people (unsavory to be sure), all in hopes of changing my chance at success. Knowledge, work, only a chance at making any difference at all.

So, in the Change the World, You Asshole method you are fomenting, I lack the drive to do more than assume the world is evil as hell... then enjoy the ride as best I can.

My Angels (should they exist) do not impel. I have a sad resignation that I don't wear on my sleeve. One of the little bastards sits on my shoulder once in a while though (I think...).

He's there. You oughta know by now.

And he's the only one - you don't rate two (unless you wanna talk about that other, darker one).

As to the rest of it, I'd as soon speak the truth as walk around in pessimism and cynicism. I think if we all started speaking the truth we would stop electing liars and be citizens of a republic again instead of subjects of an empire.

Cannonpointer » 21 Dec 2016 6:28 pm » wrote:He's there. You oughta know by now.

And he's the only one - you don't rate two (unless you wanna talk about that other, darker one).

As to the rest of it, I'd as soon speak the truth as walk around in pessimism and cynicism. I think if we all started speaking the truth we would stop electing liars and be citizens of a republic again instead of subjects of an empire.

I think the truth is even harder to find in the Information Age.
Over-communication of bad info, outright agenda driven lies, lower thresholds for academics, etc. all contribute.

I saw some survey/research on superstition, astrology, myths growing in popularity over the last decade.
Your version of truth to a lot of folks is viewed as the very pessimism and cynicism you claim to battle against.
I can understand that even if I disagree.
I, too, would rather have truth but it can be damned hard to sort it out of the ****.

deezer shoove » 21 Dec 2016 10:50 pm » wrote:
I think the truth is even harder to find in the Information Age.
Over-communication of bad info, outright agenda driven lies, lower thresholds for academics, etc. all contribute.

I saw some survey/research on superstition, astrology, myths growing in popularity over the last decade.
Your version of truth to a lot of folks is viewed as the very pessimism and cynicism you claim to battle against.
I can understand that even if I disagree.
I, too, would rather have truth but it can be damned hard to sort it out of the ****.

Well, take a shot at it. The OP is there for consideration and comment. Probe it. Poke it. Show me its weaknesses. Why the **** you think it's there?

Cannonpointer » 22 Dec 2016 9:09 pm » wrote:Well, take a shot at it. The OP is there for consideration and comment. Probe it. Poke it. Show me its weaknesses. Why the **** you think it's there?

Its very first weakness is being (as I previously mentioned) a topic that experts educate themselves in. Islam.
Probing at any depth in the format of a chatroom is instant deterioration at the slightest near-miss.

I let my slip show a little already by way of comparing angels (warm and wonderful versus scary and mean).
Suffice it to say, religions evolve over time when allowed to do so. Apparently interest rates do as well.
Can that actually be the cause of armageddon? Seems a bit thin.