Liberal Forum

Sgt Bilko » 07 Aug 2017 11:08 am » wrote: No!!! You became unhinged with your ignorant accusation of how I raise my children. I give them my love. I warn them there will be bigots that will dislike them because of the color of their skin. It happened already to my son. I told them that those who do this are ignorant racist bigots that they should ignore and pray for them. In one epistle of Paul he proclaims the equality of all people in Christ. I teach this to my children. What do you teach yours since you made such unfounded accusations about me!!!!

I know how you act here.
I made my own extrapolation.

Annoyed Liberall » 07 Aug 2017 11:26 am » wrote: I know how you act here.
I made my own extrapolation.

Then you obviously used your own perception of what conservative values are.

The following is an excerpt from the following link of comments made by Larry Arn president of Hillsdale College. Keep in mind that there is no single set of policies that are universally regarded as conservative, because the meaning of conservatism depends on what is considered traditional in a given place and time.

https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/a-more-a ... nservatism

What is conservatism? It is a derivative term: it refers to something outside itself. We cannot conserve the present or the future, and the past being full of contradiction, we cannot conserve it entire. In the past one finds heroism and villainy; justice and injustice; freedom and slavery. Things in the past are like things in the present: they must be judged. Conservative people know this if they have any sense.

What then makes them conservative? It is the additional knowledge that things that have had a good reputation for a long time are more trustworthy than new things. This is especially true of original things. The very term principle refers to something that comes first; to change the principle of a thing is to change it into something else. Without the principle, the thing is lost.

If American conservatism means anything, then, it means the things found at the beginning of America, when it became a nation. The classics teach us that forming political bonds is natural to people, written in their nature, stemming from the divine gift they have of speech and reason. This means in turn that the Declaration of Independence, where the final causes of our nation are stated, and the Constitution of the United States, where the form of government is established, are the original things. These documents were written by people who were friends and who understood the documents to pursue the same ends. Taken together they are the longest surviving things of their kind, and under their domain our country spread across a continent and became the strongest nation on earth, the bastion of freedom. These documents do not appeal to all conservatives, but I argue that they should, both for their age and for their worthiness.

I understand atheist liberals hate the fact that the country was founded as a Christian country!!!

Sgt Bilko » 07 Aug 2017 12:08 pm » wrote: Then you obviously used your own perception of what conservative values are.

The following is an excerpt from the following link of comments made by Larry Arn president of Hillsdale College. Keep in mind that there is no single set of policies that are universally regarded as conservative, because the meaning of conservatism depends on what is considered traditional in a given place and time.

https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/a-more-a ... nservatism

What is conservatism? It is a derivative term: it refers to something outside itself. We cannot conserve the present or the future, and the past being full of contradiction, we cannot conserve it entire. In the past one finds heroism and villainy; justice and injustice; freedom and slavery. Things in the past are like things in the present: they must be judged. Conservative people know this if they have any sense.

What then makes them conservative? It is the additional knowledge that things that have had a good reputation for a long time are more trustworthy than new things. This is especially true of original things. The very term principle refers to something that comes first; to change the principle of a thing is to change it into something else. Without the principle, the thing is lost.

If American conservatism means anything, then, it means the things found at the beginning of America, when it became a nation. The classics teach us that forming political bonds is natural to people, written in their nature, stemming from the divine gift they have of speech and reason. This means in turn that the Declaration of Independence, where the final causes of our nation are stated, and the Constitution of the United States, where the form of government is established, are the original things. These documents were written by people who were friends and who understood the documents to pursue the same ends. Taken together they are the longest surviving things of their kind, and under their domain our country spread across a continent and became the strongest nation on earth, the bastion of freedom. These documents do not appeal to all conservatives, but I argue that they should, both for their age and for their worthiness.

TLDR

Sgt Bilko » 07 Aug 2017 12:20 pm » wrote:I understand atheist liberals hate the fact that the country was founded as a Christian country!!!

1. No it wasn't.
2. You call anyone who doesn't agree with your politics an atheist.
3. **** off

Sgt Bilko » 07 Aug 2017 12:20 pm » wrote:I understand atheist liberals hate the fact that the country was founded as a Christian country!!!

Liar.

"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.”
—John Adams

Annoyed Liberall » 07 Aug 2017 12:23 pm » wrote: 1. No it wasn't.
2. You call anyone who doesn't agree with your politics an atheist.
3. **** off

First that excuse for not reading what conservativism is shows your deliberate idea that you don't want conflicting information that threatens liberalism beliefs since you might learn something about what you oppose that is different from your preconceived ideas. This way you avoid cognitive dissonance.
Second the large percentage of liberals are atheists. Especially the progressive wing.
Third ?

Miss liberal can't read long posts will ignore this refutation of her belief the founding of America as not as Christian country.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sm8oGUXomHc

Was America Founded to be Secular

What role should religion play in a free society? More and more people today would answer: none. That would not have been the answer of the Founders of the United States – the men who fought the American Revolution and wrote the country’s Constitution.

To them the issue of religion and freedom were inextricably linked. You couldn’t have freedom without religion. In fact, the political philosophy of the Founders necessitated a divine foundation.

Thomas Jefferson makes this clear in the Declaration of Independence when he writes that “all men…are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights.” The purpose of government, Jefferson and his compatriots believed, was not to bestow rights; rather, it was to protect those rights already endowed upon human beings by God.

But government isn’t enough for a free society. A moral people is also required; that is, a people moral enough to police itself. “Virtue or morality,” George Washington observed, “is a necessary spring of popular government.” Thus, for the Founders, liberty was not merely the ability to do what one wanted; it came with moral demands and boundaries.

They all accepted the rule of life expressed by Benjamin Franklin: “Nothing brings more pain than too much pleasure; nothing more bondage than too much liberty.”

The Founders knew that the absolute enemy of freedom was – ironically – a freedom that was absolute and unrestrained. And where was this restraint going to come from? Their answer was religion, which for them – because of when and where they lived – was some variety of Christianity.

“Let Divines, and Philosophers, Statesmen and Patriots unite,” Samuel Adams wrote, “[in] instructing [citizens] in the Art of self-government…in short, of leading them in the Study, and Practice of the exalted Virtues of the Christian system.”

The Christian system to which Adams refers is composed of Judeo-Christian values – the values rooted in the Old and New Testaments, both of which were referred to by the Founders with equal conviction and frequency.

Jefferson – yes, the very same Thomas Jefferson who is so often portrayed as anti-religious – confirmed this sentiment in his Notes on the State of Virginia, when he asked: “[C]an the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? [And] that they are not to be violated but with his wrath?”

James Madison likewise affirmed the essential connection between religion and morality: “The belief in a God All Powerful, wise, and good is. . . essential to the moral order of the world and to the happiness of man. . . .”

John Adams believed that “the doctrine of a supreme, intelligent, wise, almighty sovereign of the universe,” a doctrine he credited to Judaism, was the “great essential principle of all morality, and consequently of all civilization.” And he applied this thinking specifically to the new nation he helped to create: “Our Constitution,” he said, “was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”

As President, he replied to a letter from university students in a way that would surprise many today: “Science, liberty, and religion . . . have an inseparable union. Without their joint influence no society can be great, flourishing, or happy.”

Meanwhile another Founder, Alexander Hamilton, looked at the French Revolution and saw something much different. That revolution, unlike the American Revolution, had devolved into violence and chaos. Hamilton believed he understood why. The anti-religious force it unleashed, he wrote, “annihilates the foundations of social order and true liberty, confounds all moral distinctions and substitutes [for] the mild and beneficent religion of the Gospel a gloomy, persecuting, and desolating atheism.”

For the Founders, a free society divorced from religion simply could not work and would not survive. It is no wonder then that in his Farewell Address, George Washington chastised those who would claim to be patriots, and yet undermine the influence of religion: “Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens.”

The Founders did not demand that anyone believe in any particular religion or even in God – quite the contrary. But while they understood the value of a secular government, they feared a secular society – one without religion.

So should we.

I’m Joshua Charles, writer and researcher at the Museum of the Bible, for Prager University.

Annoyed Liberall » 07 Aug 2017 12:23 pm » wrote: 1. No it wasn't.
2. You call anyone who doesn't agree with your politics an atheist.
3. **** off

Unless he believes himself to be god. There are pretty good odds that is the case.

Bilko is **** up my comedy thread.
It might be Peanut Gallery time for him.

I see he's writing something right now.
Probably some long drawn out screed.
Too bad he's wasting his time.

NeoConvict » 07 Aug 2017 1:39 pm » wrote: Unless he believes himself to be god. There are pretty good odds that is the case.

It's funny how republicans think they corner the market on God.

Misty » 07 Aug 2017 2:03 pm » wrote:Bilko is **** up my comedy thread.
It might be Peanut Gallery time for him.

I see he's writing something right now.
Probably some long drawn out screed.
Too bad he's wasting his time.

I count it a plus any time I can mess you up!!!!

Your irrational hatred needs to be kicked in the rear!!!!

Annoyed Liberall » 07 Aug 2017 3:05 pm » wrote: It's funny how republicans think they corner the market on God.

Miss liberal will ignore this as well. It contains information she will not want to read!!! So miss liberal are you liberal or progressive???

Liberalism vs Progressivism

Liberalism Defined

http://www.wnd.com/2017/01/americas-2nd ... jLZe82l.99

There are those on both the left and right who call for American unity. But these calls are either naive or disingenuous. Unity was possible between the right and liberals, but not between the right and the left.

Liberalism – which was anti-left, pro-American and deeply committed to the Judeo-Christian foundations of America; and which regarded the melting pot as the American ideal, fought for free speech for its opponents, regarded Western civilization as the greatest moral and artistic human achievement and viewed the celebration of racial identity as racism – is now affirmed almost exclusively on the right and among a handful of people who don’t call themselves conservative.

Progressivism defined it rejects the basic liberalism definition about country

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism

Progressivism is a philosophy based on the Idea of Progress, which asserts that advancements in science, technology, economic development, and social organization are vital to the improvement of the human condition. Progressivism became highly significant during the Age of Enlightenment in Europe, out of the belief that Europe was demonstrating that societies could progress in civility from barbaric conditions to civilization through strengthening the basis of empirical knowledge as the foundation of society. Figures of the Enlightenment believed that progress had universal application to all societies and that these ideas would spread across the world from Europe. Sociologist Robert Nisbet defines five "crucial premises" of the Idea of Progress as being:
1. value of the past;
2. nobility of Western civilization;
3. worth of economic/technological growth;
4. scientific/scholarly knowledge obtained through reason over faith;
5. the intrinsic importance and worth of life on Earth.

Beyond this, the meanings of progressivism have varied over time and from different perspectives.

The "reason over faith" implies non Christian concepts. Leaving out God is a mistake. That means that it is up to each to create their own morals and ethics. Atheist rulers demonstrate the fallacy of that approach!

Also notice that it rejects the basic concepts of country foundations and melting pot idea where everyone coming here adopts the American ideal.

Annoyed Liberall » 07 Aug 2017 3:05 pm » wrote: It's funny how republicans think they corner the market on God.

He sure isn't progressive.

Sgt Bilko » 07 Aug 2017 3:16 pm » wrote: Miss liberal will ignore this as well. It contains information she will not want to read!!! So miss liberal are you liberal or progressive???

Liberalism vs Progressivism

Liberalism Defined

http://www.wnd.com/2017/01/americas-2nd ... jLZe82l.99

There are those on both the left and right who call for American unity. But these calls are either naive or disingenuous. Unity was possible between the right and liberals, but not between the right and the left.

Liberalism – which was anti-left, pro-American and deeply committed to the Judeo-Christian foundations of America; and which regarded the melting pot as the American ideal, fought for free speech for its opponents, regarded Western civilization as the greatest moral and artistic human achievement and viewed the celebration of racial identity as racism – is now affirmed almost exclusively on the right and among a handful of people who don’t call themselves conservative.

Progressivism defined it rejects the basic liberalism definition about country

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism

Progressivism is a philosophy based on the Idea of Progress, which asserts that advancements in science, technology, economic development, and social organization are vital to the improvement of the human condition. Progressivism became highly significant during the Age of Enlightenment in Europe, out of the belief that Europe was demonstrating that societies could progress in civility from barbaric conditions to civilization through strengthening the basis of empirical knowledge as the foundation of society. Figures of the Enlightenment believed that progress had universal application to all societies and that these ideas would spread across the world from Europe. Sociologist Robert Nisbet defines five "crucial premises" of the Idea of Progress as being:
1. value of the past;
2. nobility of Western civilization;
3. worth of economic/technological growth;
4. scientific/scholarly knowledge obtained through reason over faith;
5. the intrinsic importance and worth of life on Earth.

Beyond this, the meanings of progressivism have varied over time and from different perspectives.

The "reason over faith" implies non Christian concepts. Leaving out God is a mistake. That means that it is up to each to create their own morals and ethics. Atheist rulers demonstrate the fallacy of that approach!

Also notice that it rejects the basic concepts of country foundations and melting pot idea where everyone coming here adopts the American ideal.

I have read all that ****.
I don't know why you think you need to educate me.

NeoConvict » 07 Aug 2017 3:40 pm » wrote: He sure isn't progressive.

God or Bilko?

Sgt Bilko » 07 Aug 2017 12:44 pm » wrote: First that excuse for not reading what conservativism is shows your deliberate idea that you don't want conflicting information that threatens liberalism beliefs since you might learn something about what you oppose that is different from your preconceived ideas. This way you avoid cognitive dissonance.
Second the large percentage of liberals are atheists. Especially the progressive wing.
Third ?

DILDO, you belong to the party of bigotry and racial hatred, and cling to a Bible of incredible violence!

Ye reap what you sow!

But, I agree, your kids should not have to suffer such hate and bigotry! I'm on your side on that one.

Sgt Bilko » 07 Aug 2017 3:10 pm » wrote: I count it a plus any time I can mess you up!!!!

Your irrational hatred needs to be kicked in the rear!!!!

You were right Misty. Useless nonsense

Annoyed Liberall » 07 Aug 2017 3:44 pm » wrote: I have read all that ****.
I don't know why you think you need to educate me.

Because as conservatives are do not put "reason" over faith in God!!! Reason is too easily manipulated!!! The Bible is the word of God therefore is superior to man's reasoning. Hitler, Stalin, Mao Tse Chung, Pol Pot, etc. Leave God out and man's reasoning gives us these examples. Don't even try to say Hitler wasn't an atheist. What is recorded of his private conversations proves he was an atheist. The holocaust is proof positive about that fact!!!

Misty » 07 Aug 2017 2:03 pm » wrote:Bilko is **** up my comedy thread.
It might be Peanut Gallery time for him.

What took you so long? Goofs - inadvertently funny while falling over their own feet in spluttering apoplexy - don't fit in here.