Liberal Forum

RichClem » 18 Feb 2014 7:51 am » wrote: I love how idiots who have never even picked it up, let alone read it for a reasonable period, condemn it.

RichClem » 18 Feb 2014 7:51 am » wrote:
I love how idiots who have never even picked it up, let alone read it for a reasonable period, condemn it.

golfboy » 18 Feb 2014 8:06 am » wrote: Well, in his defense, the WSJ does use big words, and not so many pretty pictures.

golfboy » 18 Feb 2014 8:06 am » wrote: Well, in his defense, the WSJ does use big words, and not so many pretty pictures.

Cannonpointer » 17 Feb 2014 3:03 pm » wrote:I will now present you with the DEFINING POST of Glory Hole Clem's career. You will be exposed to the difference between me, and the vast majority of right wing hacks on this board - the very worst elements of which are incorporated and incarnated (if he's human and not a bot) in the drivel we get from Glory Hole Clem. This is pasted from another thread....

There it is, folks. There is Glory Hole Clem, in a nut shell.

He values "accepted" opinion over GENERATED opinion. A subject cannot be argued on its merits between us. We must always defer to authority. A PROPOSITION HAS LESS VALUE OR MORE VALUE BASED ON WHO IT COMES FROM.

Just think of it. His COMPLAINT is that my sources were only cited for raw statistics, and not opinions. That was his COMPLAINT - that I made my own case instead of repeating talking points generated elsewhere.

And now you see what a chump this guy is, from his own mouth, in his own words.

Please - vote in the poll.

Reaganomics Vs. Obamanomics: Facts And Figures
When President Reagan entered office in 1981, he faced actually much worse economic problems than President Obama faced in 2009. Three worsening recessions starting in 1969 were about to culminate in the worst of all in 1981-1982, with unemployment soaring into double digits at a peak of 10.8%. At the same time America suffered roaring double-digit inflation, with the CPI registering at 11.3% in 1979 and 13.5% in 1980 (25% in two years). The Washington establishment at the time argued that this inflation was now endemic to the American economy, and could not be stopped, at least not without a calamitous economic collapse.

All of the above was accompanied by double -igit interest rates, with the prime rate peaking at 21.5% in 1980. The poverty rate started increasing in 1978, eventually climbing by an astounding 33%, from 11.4% to 15.2%. A fall in real median family income that began in 1978 snowballed to a decline of almost 10% by 1982. In addition, from 1968 to 1982, the Dow Jones industrial average lost 70% of its real value, reflecting an overall collapse of stocks.

President Reagan campaigned on an explicitly articulated, four-point economic program to reverse this slow motion collapse of the American economy:

1. Cut tax rates to restore incentives for economic growth, which was implemented first with a reduction in the top income tax rate of 70% down to 50%, and then a 25% across-the-board reduction in income tax rates for everyone. The 1986 tax reform then reduced tax rates further, leaving just two rates, 28% and 15%.

2. Spending reductions, including a $31 billion cut in spending in 1981, close to 5% of the federal budget then, or the equivalent of about $175 billion in spending cuts for the year today. In constant dollars, nondefense discretionary spending declined by 14.4% from 1981 to 1982, and by 16.8% from 1981 to 1983. Moreover, in constant dollars, this nondefense discretionary spending never returned to its 1981 level for the rest of Reagan’s two terms! Even with the Reagan defense buildup, which won the Cold War without firing a shot, total federal spending declined from a high of 23.5% of GDP in 1983 to 21.3% in 1988 and 21.2% in 1989. That’s a real reduction in the size of government relative to the economy of 10%.

3. Anti-inflation monetary policy restraining money supply growth compared to demand, to maintain a stronger, more stable dollar value.

4. Deregulation, which saved consumers an estimated $100 billion per year in lower prices. Reagan’s first executive order, in fact, eliminated price controls on oil and natural gas. Production soared, and aided by a strong dollar the price of oil declined by more than 50%.

These economic policies amounted to the most successful economic experiment in world history. The Reagan recovery started in official records in November 1982, and lasted 92 months without a recession until July 1990, when the tax increases of the 1990 budget deal killed it. This set a new record for the longest peacetime expansion ever, the previous high in peacetime being 58 months.

During this seven-year recovery, the economy grew by almost one-third, the equivalent of adding the entire economy of West Germany, the third-largest in the world at the time, to the U.S. economy. In 1984 alone real economic growth boomed by 6.8%, the highest in 50 years. Nearly 20 million new jobs were created during the recovery, increasing U.S. civilian employment by almost 20%. Unemployment fell to 5.3% by 1989.

The shocking rise in inflation during the Nixon and Carter years was reversed. Astoundingly, inflation from 1980 was reduced by more than half by 1982, to 6.2%. It was cut in half again for 1983, to 3.2%, never to be heard from again until recently. The contractionary, tight-money policies needed to kill this inflation inexorably created the steep recession of 1981 to 1982, which is why Reagan did not suffer politically catastrophic blame for that recession.

Real per-capita disposable income increased by 18% from 1982 to 1989, meaning the American standard of living increased by almost 20% in just seven years. The poverty rate declined every year from 1984 to 1989, dropping by one-sixth from its peak. The stock market more than tripled in value from 1980 to 1990, a larger increase than in any previous decade.

In The End of Prosperity, supply side guru Art Laffer and Wall Street Journal chief financial writer Steve Moore point out that this Reagan recovery grew into a 25-year boom, with just slight interruptions by shallow, short recessions in 1990 and 2001. They wrote:

We call this period, 1982-2007, the twenty-five year boom–the greatest period of wealth creation in the history of the planet. In 1980, the net worth–assets minus liabilities–of all U.S. households and business … was $25 trillion in today’s dollars. By 2007, … net worth was just shy of $57 trillion. Adjusting for inflation, more wealth was created in America in the twenty-five year boom than in the previous two hundred years.

What is so striking about Obamanomics is how it so doggedly pursues the opposite of every one of these planks of Reaganomics.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrar ... d-figures/

RichClem » 18 Feb 2014 9:42 am » wrote:[

RichClem » 18 Feb 2014 7:29 am » wrote:
Largely because you mis-represented my claim in the question, so you're just being dishonest.

And yes, as usual the board's imbeciles and liars side with a psychotic.

Next time get a list of the names so we can have a laugh.

Cannonpointer » 18 Feb 2014 2:12 pm » wrote: I could not figure out how to make the names show, or I would have.

I posted your own words, Clemtard. That you could call that misrepresentation just shows your lack of self-examination.

In the grownup world, clemtard....

You've got nothing. I fairly characterized your position, and the BOARD, not "psychotics," has made its opinion quite clear, you little hump.

Cannonpointer » 18 Feb 2014 2:12 pm » wrote: you DID in fact pillory me for "Arguing [my] own opinion from data sourced to independent, nonpartisan authorities."

RichClem » 18 Feb 2014 2:31 pm » wrote:
Yes, because you put your ignorance, horrific judgment and psychosis over the best minds in the country on Economics and related matters.

That's just stunningly stupid.

Cannonpointer » 18 Feb 2014 2:39 pm » wrote: More deference to authority. You are attacking me rather than my propositions, and deferring to the authority of alleged anonymous scholarship in the matter.

Nearly 20 million new jobs were created during the recovery, increasing U.S. civilian employment by almost 20%. Unemployment fell to 5.3% by 1989.

Cannonpointer » 18 Feb 2014 2:39 pm » wrote: More deference to authority. You are attacking me rather than my propositions, and deferring to the authority of alleged anonymous scholarship in the matter.

Real per-capita disposable income increased by 18% from 1982 to 1989, meaning the American standard of living increased by almost 20% in just seven years. The poverty rate declined every year from 1984 to 1989, dropping by one-sixth from its peak. The stock market more than tripled in value from 1980 to 1990, a larger increase than in any previous decade.

RichClem » 18 Feb 2014 2:56 pm » wrote:
While you're in psychotic rant mode, here are more facts you completely ignored in your moonbat pseudo-analysis of Reagan's record.

RichClem » 18 Feb 2014 2:47 pm » wrote:
Citing important facts is "deference to authority?"

Where's your figure on job creation under Reagan, psycho? Are you so stupid as to think that's not worth considering?

RichClem » 18 Feb 2014 2:30 pm » wrote:
And as usual, not one single word out of you about the great sources I cited and the important facts they brought.

Cannonpointer » 18 Feb 2014 3:01 pm » wrote: Smoke and mirrors. Fun with numbers. Catsup is a vegetable, the unemployed who run out of bennies are no longer "unemployed," and two guys trading debt is a "service."

Cannonpointer » 18 Feb 2014 3:04 pm » wrote: You cite opinion AS fact, tard. There's a difference. What makes them "facts," in your world, is your sycophantic deference to authority.

Reagan's "job creation" has been shown in Amazon Tania's post in the form of a graph, which demonstrated that it was mostly smoke and mirrors - a bunch of part time jobs to game the numbers. Reagan was good at gaming numbers - backwards engineering using tax policy and memes to achieve through gimmickry a result he could not achieve through statecraft.

RichClem » 18 Feb 2014 3:08 pm » wrote:


I swear, it takes hard, hard work to be this freaking clueless.

RichClem » 18 Feb 2014 3:08 pm » wrote:


I swear, it takes hard, hard work to be this freaking clueless.

Cannonpointer » 18 Feb 2014 3:04 pm » wrote: You cite opinion AS fact, tard. There's a difference. What makes them "facts," in your world, is your sycophantic deference to authority.

Reagan's "job creation" has been shown in Amazon Tania's post in the form of a graph, which demonstrated that it was mostly smoke and mirrors - a bunch of part time jobs to game the numbers. Reagan was good at gaming numbers - backwards engineering using tax policy and memes to achieve through gimmickry a result he could not achieve through statecraft.

http://www.therazor.org/?p=1291