Liberal Forum

peepee » 15 Dec 2017 9:07 am » wrote:....bill still gets at the heart of the matter at 6:40....

...btw, this video, and the ignorant comments after, exposes the 'gold bugs' as people who don't understand that all widely-used 'money' has always been 'fiat' in nature...remember, 'gold' per se was/is not 'the money'....'authorized' gold 'coins' were 'the money'...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tD2gdvs_4

Far leftwing progressive moonbat moron concepts. 6th grade economics!!!

peepee » 15 Dec 2017 4:32 pm » wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tD2gdvs_4&t=2988s

cannonpointer: "Still is a friend of paper money. About half way through, he denounces those who cite Art. 1 Sec 10 in arguments against fed notes as misreading that article - but offers no alternative read.A friend of paper money is an enemy of the nation.''

...benjamin franklin was an enemy of the nation?...

...if you mean by 'paper money', 'fiat money' i offer the following defintion of money by monetary historian alexander del mar: "...what is commonly understood as money has always consisted, tangibly, of a number of pieces of some material, marked by public authority and named or understood in the laws or customs: that its palpable characteristic was its mark of authority; its essential characteristic, the possession of value, defined by law; and its function, the legal power to pay debts and taxes and the mechanical power to facilitate the exchange of other objects possessing value..."

..and the historian Knapp exposes ludwigger ooga-booga gold bug theories: "I hold the attempt to deduce the nature of money without the idea of a state to be not only out of date, but even absurd"..

https://www.forbes.com/sites/pascalemma ... ffcae3dd5d

Rant and rave all you want but there isn't enough precious metals for going back to that standard. The world population is too immense.

Actually it is extremely possible to run out of money on social programs.

The money we earn is actually earned. People have to do things. Innovation is the most important thing.

Social programs contain a danger of a snowball effect because they are fundamentally dysgenic. It means there will be a growing number of parasites while there are fewer innovators. And indeed at some point potential innovators will resent being nothing more than tax slaves constantly lambasted for being white...and then they will stop.

The money will run out and the whole system will collapse.

Sgt Bilko » 17 Dec 2017 5:20 pm » wrote: Far leftwing progressive moonbat moron concepts. 6th grade economics!!!

DILDO, I was very worried about you! I thought you were at the ICU at the hospital from al the beatings you have had here!

Cannonpointer » 15 Dec 2017 9:48 pm » wrote: ...call Franklin a friend of paper money again, I punch your grandmother in the ****.

https://21stcenturycicero.wordpress.com ... ial-scrip/

Colonial Scrip was a paper fiat money as opposed to specie issued by the colonies in the pre-revolution era, up until 1775. It was an altogether different money from Continental currency; which was money issued during the American Revolution, that depreciated rapidly, to fund the war effort.
Conception

Colonial Scrip was not backed by gold or silver and therefore the Colonies could control its purchasing power. This was a revolutionary concept in economics, because the conventional European mercantilist system of money required governments to borrow from banks and pay interest for those loans, as gold and silver were the only regarded forms of money. This is known as the debt-based money system, where banknotes are “bills of debt.” Colonial Scrip, however, were “bills of credit” created by the government, based on the credit of that government, and this meant that there was no interest to pay for the introduction of money. This went a considerable way towards defraying the expense of the Colonial governments and in maintaining prosperity. The Governments charged low interest when it loaned out this paper money to its citizens, with land as collateral, and this interest income lowered the tax burden on the people, contributing to prosperity.
The currency was born when a lack of gold and silver in the Colonies made trade hard to conduct, and a barter system prevailed. One by one, the Colonies began to issue their own paper money to serve as a medium of exchange to make trade vibrant. The Governments could then retire excess notes out of circulation by taxing the people, helping some Colonies generally avoid inflation. Each Colony had its own currency and some were better managed than others. It was banned by English Parliament in the Currency Act after Benjamin Franklin had explained the benefits of this currency to the British Board of Trade. Outlawing the circulating medium caused a depression in the Colonies, and Franklin and many others believed it to be the true cause of the American Revolution.
Pennsylvania

Main article: Pennsylvania pound
The Pennsylvania version of this currency was said to be the most effective, because they controlled the money supply and issued only enough notes so as to satisfy the demands of trade, preventing inflation. In 1938, Dr. Richard A. Lester, an economist at Princeton University, wrote that “The price level during the 52 years prior to the American Revolution and while Pennsylvania was on a paper standard was more stable than the American price level has been during any succeeding fifty-year period.” Pennsylvania established a “land bank” that allowed landowners to borrow Scrip with their land as collateral. They could borrow twice the value of their land, half of it representing actual land value, and the other half representing production potential of the land. The loan was to be retired over a set period of years, with the land onwership being restored to the citizen upon payment. When the loan was fully retired, another loan could be taken out.

Benjamin Franklin
Benjamin Franklin helped create the Pennsylvania Scrip, and in his autobiography he wrote of this currency:

The utility of this currency became by time and experience so evident as never afterwards to be much disputed

Franklin believed the shutting down of this paper money by Parliament in 1764 was the principal cause of the American Revolution, as did many other prominent Americans. Peter Cooper, founder of Cooper Union College, Vice-President of the New York Board of Currency, US Presidential Candidate in 1876, and one-time colleague of Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin said in his 1883 book Ideas for a Science of Good Government:

After Franklin had explained…to the British Government as the real cause of prosperity, they immediately passed laws, forbidding the payment of taxes in that money. This produced such great inconvenience and misery to the people, that it was the principal cause of the Revolution. A far greater reason for a general uprising, than the Tea and Stamp Act, was the taking away of the paper money.

Adam Smith

Adam Smith wrote of the Pennsylvania currency in his famed 1776 work The Wealth of Nations:

The government of Pennsylvania, without amassing any [gold or silver], invented a method of lending, not money indeed, but what is equivalent to money to its subjects. [It advanced] to private people at interest, upon [land as collateral], paper bills of credit…made transferable from hand to hand like bank notes, and declared by act of assembly to be legal tender in all payments…[the system] went a considerable way toward defraying the annual expense…of that…government [low taxes]. [Pennsylvania’s] paper currency…is said never to have sunk below the value of gold and silver which was current in the colony before the…issue of paper money.

charles.thompson » 17 Dec 2017 8:21 pm » wrote:Actually it is extremely possible to run out of money on social programs.

The money we earn is actually earned. People have to do things.

...yes charles...and little do you know but all 'the banksters' 'have to do' to get money is enter some new digits into some accounts...[psssst, your **** conservative republicans don't ever talk about thi$ so you can be forgiven]

indago » 15 Dec 2017 6:17 pm » wrote:
You might as well hang it up! We are NEVER going back to gold and silver coin as a common currency. We are headed toward digital money.

...?!?... ....

...firstly, we've NEVER had an honest [100%-backed] gold/silver money system to 'go back to'...and what's your point?!..i certainly don't want some stinking metallic monetary order which, btw, will be owned/controlled by the same ****$ who control us now!!

...barbarous metallic money means [for one thing] that every time 'the ****' want to undertake an 'increase in the supply of money' that mother earth will be ripped apart and poisoned...**** for generations!!...ask the people who live on the animas river in colorado/new mexico...

peepee » 18 Dec 2017 7:15 am » wrote:

charles.thompson » 17 Dec 2017 8:21 pm » wrote:Actually it is extremely possible to run out of money on social programs.

The money we earn is actually earned. People have to do things.

...yes charles...and little do you know but all 'the banksters' 'have to do' to get money is enter some new digits into some accounts...[psssst, your **** conservative republicans don't ever talk about thi$ so you can be forgiven]

Do why don't they print an infinite amount of money and buy the world?

charles.thompson » 18 Dec 2017 8:38 am » wrote: Do why don't they print an infinite amount of money and buy the world?

...[let me guess, charles is a calvin coolidge radio republican... ]

....ALREADY BEEN THERE, DONE THAT, CHARLES!...GET WITH THE PROGRAM!...START BY STOP LISTENING TO RUSE LIMBAUGH, ALEX JONES, SEAN HANNITY, ETC. ASSORTED GODDAMNED FOOL MONETARY IGNORAMUS REPUBLICRATS GALORE!... [sorry for yelling, charles...i've been a pu$$ycat my whole life and i'm trying a new 'get tough, get real' approach with you republican-radio-levelers]

...as one brilliant wag put it:

"Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take away from them the power to create money and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create money."

peepee » 18 Dec 2017 7:15 am » wrote:


...yes charles...and little do you know but all 'the banksters' 'have to do' to get money is enter some new digits into some accounts...[psssst, your **** conservative republicans don't ever talk about thi$ so you can be forgiven]

Actually they do talk about it peebrain...but yer too busy listening to prog-tinfoil-hat radio to know it.

peepee » 18 Dec 2017 9:01 am » wrote:

charles.thompson » 18 Dec 2017 8:38 am » wrote: Do why don't they print an infinite amount of money and buy the world?

...[let me guess, charles is a calvin coolidge radio republican... ]

....ALREADY BEEN THERE, DONE THAT, CHARLES!...GET WITH THE PROGRAM!...START BY STOP LISTENING TO RUSE LIMBAUGH, ALEX JONES, SEAN HANNITY, ETC. ASSORTED GODDAMNED FOOL MONETARY IGNORAMUS REPUBLICRATS GALORE!... [sorry for yelling, charles...i've been a pu$$ycat my whole life and i'm trying a new 'get tough, get real' approach with you republican-radio-levelers]

...as one brilliant wag put it:

"Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take away from them the power to create money and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create money."

I can tell you are upset...but I don't get the feeling you understand how banking works. You should figure out why currency exists in the first place...and what the federal reserve does...and how the Fed is different from normal banks

roadkill » 18 Dec 2017 9:13 am » wrote:
Actually they do talk about it peebrain...but yer too busy listening to prog-tinfoil-hat radio to know it.

...then why don't you just merely copy and paste the best word$/video$ etc. eminating from the cocksuckers of your favorite republican radio heroes, you goddamned fool?...

[i didn't think so!!]

peepee » 18 Dec 2017 9:20 am » wrote:


...then why don't you just merely copy and paste the best word$/video$ etc. eminating from the cocksuckers of your favorite republican radio heroes, you goddamned fool?...

[i didn't think so!!]

I'd rather watch you post fake stuff.

Yer an asset to me and I don't want to squander that.

charles.thompson » 18 Dec 2017 9:15 am » wrote: I can tell you are upset...but I don't get the feeling you understand how banking works. You should figure out why currency exists in the first place...and what the federal reserve does...and how the Fed is different from normal banks

...quit playing games and tell me where YOU think i'm wrong/confused/missing the point/etc.!......btw, most 'money' is created by private commercial banksters...stfu about 'the fed' and tell me what you know about money creation...who and how...

..nothing except **** from you republican-radio ****...ever...

...argue with this guy, you stoooooooooopid fux...scroll to 1:45:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt_z50huFSw

peepee » 18 Dec 2017 9:29 am » wrote:

charles.thompson » 18 Dec 2017 9:15 am » wrote: I can tell you are upset...but I don't get the feeling you understand how banking works. You should figure out why currency exists in the first place...and what the federal reserve does...and how the Fed is different from normal banks

...quit playing games and tell me where YOU think i'm wrong/confused/missing the point/etc.!......btw, most 'money' is created by private commercial banksters...stfu about 'the fed' and tell me what you know about money creation...who and how...

have you ever heard of the US department of the treasury? What do you think they do? are they a bank?

peepee » 18 Dec 2017 9:29 am » wrote:

charles.thompson » 18 Dec 2017 9:15 am » wrote: I can tell you are upset...but I don't get the feeling you understand how banking works. You should figure out why currency exists in the first place...and what the federal reserve does...and how the Fed is different from normal banks

...quit playing games and tell me where YOU think i'm wrong/confused/missing the point/etc.!......btw, most 'money' is created by private commercial banksters...stfu about 'the fed' and tell me what you know about money creation...who and how...

Pull out any 1$ you have (assuming you have any)...notice the term 'Federal reserve note' is on it as well as a signature of the us treasurer. You know what any of that means? You think private banks put those things there?

If Wachovia were printing money...dont you think they would call it a 'Wachovia note'? Maybe include some slogan about how they are the best bank?

peepee » 18 Dec 2017 7:24 am » wrote:

indago » 15 Dec 2017 6:17 pm » wrote:
You might as well hang it up! We are NEVER going back to gold and silver coin as a common currency. We are headed toward digital money.

...?!?... ....

...firstly, we've NEVER had an honest [100%-backed] gold/silver money system to 'go back to'...and what's your point?!..i certainly don't want some stinking metallic monetary order which, btw, will be owned/controlled by the same ****$ who control us now!!

...barbarous metallic money means [for one thing] that every time 'the ****' want to undertake an 'increase in the supply of money' that mother earth will be ripped apart and poisoned...**** for generations!!...ask the people who live on the animas river in colorado/new mexico...

We are not on the gold standard anymore because we replaced it with something more useful: an oil standard.

peepee » 18 Dec 2017 7:06 am » wrote:


https://21stcenturycicero.wordpress.com ... ial-scrip/

Colonial Scrip was a paper fiat money as opposed to specie issued by the colonies in the pre-revolution era, up until 1775. It was an altogether different money from Continental currency; which was money issued during the American Revolution, that depreciated rapidly, to fund the war effort.
Conception

Colonial Scrip was not backed by gold or silver and therefore the Colonies could control its purchasing power. This was a revolutionary concept in economics, because the conventional European mercantilist system of money required governments to borrow from banks and pay interest for those loans, as gold and silver were the only regarded forms of money. This is known as the debt-based money system, where banknotes are “bills of debt.” Colonial Scrip, however, were “bills of credit” created by the government, based on the credit of that government, and this meant that there was no interest to pay for the introduction of money. This went a considerable way towards defraying the expense of the Colonial governments and in maintaining prosperity. The Governments charged low interest when it loaned out this paper money to its citizens, with land as collateral, and this interest income lowered the tax burden on the people, contributing to prosperity.
The currency was born when a lack of gold and silver in the Colonies made trade hard to conduct, and a barter system prevailed. One by one, the Colonies began to issue their own paper money to serve as a medium of exchange to make trade vibrant. The Governments could then retire excess notes out of circulation by taxing the people, helping some Colonies generally avoid inflation. Each Colony had its own currency and some were better managed than others. It was banned by English Parliament in the Currency Act after Benjamin Franklin had explained the benefits of this currency to the British Board of Trade. Outlawing the circulating medium caused a depression in the Colonies, and Franklin and many others believed it to be the true cause of the American Revolution.
Pennsylvania

Main article: Pennsylvania pound
The Pennsylvania version of this currency was said to be the most effective, because they controlled the money supply and issued only enough notes so as to satisfy the demands of trade, preventing inflation. In 1938, Dr. Richard A. Lester, an economist at Princeton University, wrote that “The price level during the 52 years prior to the American Revolution and while Pennsylvania was on a paper standard was more stable than the American price level has been during any succeeding fifty-year period.” Pennsylvania established a “land bank” that allowed landowners to borrow Scrip with their land as collateral. They could borrow twice the value of their land, half of it representing actual land value, and the other half representing production potential of the land. The loan was to be retired over a set period of years, with the land onwership being restored to the citizen upon payment. When the loan was fully retired, another loan could be taken out.

Benjamin Franklin
Benjamin Franklin helped create the Pennsylvania Scrip, and in his autobiography he wrote of this currency:

Franklin believed the shutting down of this paper money by Parliament in 1764 was the principal cause of the American Revolution, as did many other prominent Americans. Peter Cooper, founder of Cooper Union College, Vice-President of the New York Board of Currency, US Presidential Candidate in 1876, and one-time colleague of Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin said in his 1883 book Ideas for a Science of Good Government:

Adam Smith

Adam Smith wrote of the Pennsylvania currency in his famed 1776 work The Wealth of Nations:

That is interesting information - but a bit unhistorical in treating fiat currency as an american invention. Such currencies were a plague on ancient egypt.

The us has a very messy currency system...and it is designed to give maximum control over the us economy. I can understand why you are confused by it.

The federal reserve LOANS money to private banks. The interest they charge sets the federal interest rate. Banks that want to make a profit are obviously forced to charge a higher interest on their loans than the federal rate.

The federal reserve also does not print the actual money. Us engraving and printing does.

The federal reserve is sort of private...but the pres appoints the chair...the house sets the salary...and the profit of the federal reserve is taxed by the federal government at a rate around 96%