Liberal Forum

Vegasgiants » 23 Nov 2021, 7:08 pm » wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2021, 7:08 pm

Much better than jim crow and the klan....right?

I used a utilitarian measure.. comparing the estimated misery vs the happiness/prosperity of the nation as a whole.  And by indicators of productivity, success, and well being for citizens ON AVERAGE .. yeh the 1950s were great.  

Jim Crow and the Klan were waning by the 1950s.  Notice I didn't say the roaring 20's were great.  

At least I went out on a limb staked a position and defend it.  You won't even say what YOU think was America's heyday, coward

SJConspirator » 23 Nov 2021, 7:13 pm » wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2021, 7:13 pm

I used a utilitarian measure.. comparing the estimated misery vs the happiness/prosperity of the nation as a whole.  And by indicators of productivity, success, and well being for citizens ON AVERAGE .. yeh the 1950s were great.  

Jim Crow and the Klan were waning by the 1950s.  Notice I didn't say the roaring 20's were great.  

At least I went out on a limb staked a position and defend it.  You won't even say what YOU think was America's heyday, coward

Oh let me be clear on my position.


We should never go backward.  More people have more freedom and opportunity than ever in the US.  America gets greater TOMORROW.....not YESTERDAY
 

SJConspirator » 23 Nov 2021, 9:59 am » wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2021, 9:59 am

The MAGA crowd never did answer this question.  If Make America Great Again is a campaign slogan, it begs the question, WHEN was America great?

I say we had 3 decades of greatness, roughly 1950 to 1980.  That was when America had great standing on the world stage, everybody wanted to come here, and opportunities were amazing for even average folk.  A family could be raised on one income, all indicators of quality of life were on the rise.  Of course, the caveat to all this is it was true if you are white.

After about 1980, the middle class began to evaporate.  Homelessness, poverty, sickness, drug addiction, all began to skyrocket.  

Anyway that’s my take.  I would like to know how some others would answer the question… when was America great?  And how in the world could we ever return to greatness?

my take is actually that America was never great. Liberalism was a self contradictory rot that was always going to kill us eventually...and the race question that was here since the beginning was never honestly addressed.. 

The worst time to me was under Carter. Part of it was I was just getting into the business world, young family and just starting to accumulate a few assets and inflation ate most of it.

Jimmuh is a very good man but a lousy leader.

Bidennextpresident » 23 Nov 2021, 7:10 pm » wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2021, 7:10 pm

How did feminism destroy US prosperity?

Wow, the answer to that question is legion, and could fill the Library of Alexandria with examples.  How much time you got?

For one, feminism sells women the notion that sexual freedom is better than being tied in commitment to a single man, which is deemed patriarchy.  It promotes freedom, independence, and like it or not, promiscuity.  These ideas, once rooted in the female psyche, do not bode well for the family unit - the most basic building block of society.

The family unit is a prerequisite for the functioning of more complex social order. One cannot have committees, courts, institutions, panels, religions or even nations without first establishing family.  As the individual bonds with the family, the family bonds with the civilization it inhabits. But individuals deprived the bonds of family by outcome of immutable social factors are often at odds with civilization.

Such individuals give up on community, opting for a more parasitic survival strategy. They are the shameless narcissists, the angry barbarians and each and every shade of dysfunction there between. Scarcely do such people care for civilization. And how can we expect them to care for something as grand and abstract as civilization when such individuals were never fully subject to the bonds of family? How does one come to love something as grand as nation when they had not even the love of kin?

 Familial estrangement manufactures apathy. This is how promiscuity and divorce undermine social progress, and in turn, civilizational progress. The effects of such action cause pain, which in turn, promotes excessive individualism and a disdain for collectivism. And so the cosmic recurrence that is a need for balance is tipped too far in one direction. That is, an obsession with the self (individualism, narcissism) and a disregard for the whole (collectivism, abstraction.)

 In truth, if all enjoyed the near absolute freedom of the few, social order would break down. Civilization would be but a shadow of its former self. And then those left would quickly call for order and more conservative social mores. Indeed, boom and bust, rise and decline, the attitudes and social mores of a civilization’s people appears quite cyclical. It appears that with prosperity, comes the rise of the feminine. Like children with access to the cookie jar, this leads to excessive freedom, which in turn leads to destruction and general apathy.

Then when collapse comes, the masculine takes over – leading to order, conservatism, creation and empathy.
 To enjoy the furnishings of higher civilization, we are required to, for better or worse, forgo some of our more primitive aspects. Unfettered hedonism is just one of these aspects, although it is popular to think this is a piece of the proverbial cake that can be eaten and enjoyed without consequence.
 
 

SJConspirator » 23 Nov 2021, 7:21 pm » wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2021, 7:21 pm

Wow, the answer to that question is legion, and could fill the Library of Alexandria with examples.  How much time you got?

For one, feminism sells women the notion that sexual freedom is better than being tied in commitment to a single man, which is deemed patriarchy.  It promotes freedom, independence, and like it or not, promiscuity.  These ideas, once rooted in the female psyche, do not bode well for the family unit - the most basic building block of society.

The family unit is a prerequisite for the functioning of more complex social order. One cannot have committees, courts, institutions, panels, religions or even nations without first establishing family.  As the individual bonds with the family, the family bonds with the civilization it inhabits. But individuals deprived the bonds of family by outcome of immutable social factors are often at odds with civilization.

Such individuals give up on community, opting for a more parasitic survival strategy. They are the shameless narcissists, the angry barbarians and each and every shade of dysfunction there between. Scarcely do such people care for civilization. And how can we expect them to care for something as grand and abstract as civilization when such individuals were never fully subject to the bonds of family? How does one come to love something as grand as nation when they had not even the love of kin?

 Familial estrangement manufactures apathy. This is how promiscuity and divorce undermine social progress, and in turn, civilizational progress. The effects of such action cause pain, which in turn, promotes excessive individualism and a disdain for collectivism. And so the cosmic recurrence that is a need for balance is tipped too far in one direction. That is, an obsession with the self (individualism, narcissism) and a disregard for the whole (collectivism, abstraction.)

 In truth, if all enjoyed the near absolute freedom of the few, social order would break down. Civilization would be but a shadow of its former self. And then those left would quickly call for order and more conservative social mores. Indeed, boom and bust, rise and decline, the attitudes and social mores of a civilization’s people appears quite cyclical. It appears that with prosperity, comes the rise of the feminine. Like children with access to the cookie jar, this leads to excessive freedom, which in turn leads to destruction and general apathy.

Then when collapse comes, the masculine takes over – leading to order, conservatism, creation and empathy.
 To enjoy the furnishings of higher civilization, we are required to, for better or worse, forgo some of our more primitive aspects. Unfettered hedonism is just one of these aspects, although it is popular to think this is a piece of the proverbial cake that can be eaten and enjoyed without consequence.

What did that have to do with prosperity?

Vegasgiants » 23 Nov 2021, 7:15 pm » wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2021, 7:15 pm

Oh let me be clear on my position.

We should never go backward.  More people have more freedom and opportunity than ever in the US.  America gets greater TOMORROW.....not YESTERDAY

So the term MAGA is just a misnomer to you

SJConspirator » 23 Nov 2021, 7:23 pm » wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2021, 7:23 pm

So the term MAGA is just a misnomer to you

It's a lie used to con fools

crimsongulf » 23 Nov 2021, 7:18 pm » wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2021, 7:18 pm

The worst time to me was under Carter. Part of it was I was just getting into the business world, young family and just starting to accumulate a few assets and inflation ate most of it.

Jimmuh is a very good man but a lousy leader.

Okay, so when was America great, outside of Carter's time?  Not YOU being great, but AMERICA as a whole

The greatest moments of the usa was perhaps in the 1820s under Andrew jackson...whonwas a genuine threat to the liberal elite and inspired many genuine positive cultural and policy changes for the white race...

Or perhaps under Ted Roosevelt who embraced fascist economics and inspired a culture of unrivaled innovation in the usa.

The 1950s were fine I gues...from a prosperity standpoint...but that is because of accidents of history and happened despite the cultural zeitgeist...not because of it.
 

Vegasgiants » 23 Nov 2021, 7:24 pm » wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2021, 7:24 pm

It's a lie used to con fools

Like, the people assaulting cops in the Capitol were tourists.

McCarthy was correct about the large bolshevik influence in this country during the 1950s...and indeed the great depression was an artificial event...engineered not avcidental...on behalf of jewish bolshevik bankers in the hopes of sparking a revolution in the usa...as Oswald mosely has pointed out.

It was already too late to turn the ship around by 1950. The rest was inevitable. We were simply on the wrong side in ww2.

FOS » 23 Nov 2021, 7:24 pm » wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2021, 7:24 pm

The greatest moments of the usa was perhaps in the 1820s under Andrew jackson...whonwas a genuine threat to the liberal elite and inspired many genuine positive cultural and policy changes for the white race...

Or perhaps under Ted Roosevelt who embraced fascist economics and inspired a culture of unrivaled innovation in the usa.

The 1950s were fine I gues...from a prosperity standpoint...but that is because of accidents of history and happened despite the cultural zeitgeist...not because of it.

I purposely avoided pre civil war, as it is very loaded to say that America's greatest pinnacle was reached during slavery

SJConspirator » 23 Nov 2021, 7:30 pm » wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2021, 7:30 pm

I purposely avoided pre civil war, as it is very loaded to say that America's greatest pinnacle was reached during slavery

Well when was the golden age of ancient Greece? They had slaves also lol. 

It's silly to allow all this stuttering about slavery to color your objectivity 

 

Bidennextpresident » 23 Nov 2021, 7:25 pm » wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2021, 7:25 pm

Like, the people assaulting cops in the Capitol were tourists.

These nazi trumpers take their talking points straight out of a Hitler speech

Donald Trump was probably the us president ostensibly most similar to Andrew Jackson in his rhetoric.

He went after the REAL establishment elite...just like Jackson did...who attacked bankers most of all.

But Trump was also just a ruse. He was clearly led by people like kushner and Sheldon addleson...so his sentiments were only a means to an end...he knew they would be popular.

But he did nothing to defang the actual elite...and they hated the things he said so he had to go.
 

omh » 23 Nov 2021, 6:30 pm » wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2021, 6:30 pm

what is different between ignoring and never accepting? Social justification by we demand rights to take liberties away from anyone not paying to play social narratives cradle to grave.

I accept everything but disagree with much of it. Or profess to simply not know. I will neither accept or ignore the unknown. Just ponder it.

Inevitably when people talk about going back in time to when America was great they refer to a time when it was only great for white, Male Christian straight people

Vegasgiants » 23 Nov 2021, 7:36 pm » wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2021, 7:36 pm

These nazi trumpers take their talking points straight out of a Hitler speech

Which speech? Place it HERE.

DeplorablePatriot » 23 Nov 2021, 7:43 pm » wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2021, 7:43 pm

Which speech? Place it HERE.

Make me a sandwich first