Liberal Forum

I would have to look deeper to find out what was really going on. But at that point UF was in a pickle which explains the buyouts and mergers and ****. The government was in a pickle too as they had no capital and a partially completed railroad rusting in the jungle.

Apparently this Minor Keith guy was a really tenacious guy. That is if he was the one who came up with a plan to continue. He put up a fortune of his own money (must have been everything) but was forced to partner with another wealthy American and further issue stock for the remaining 1/3rd. This gave them enough money to complete the project. But why complete a project for someone else for free? No reward there? No way to recoup the investment and the countries leadership was broke.

Apparently he had been feeding the workers with bananas and other native fruits, growing them locally. So his plan was ingenious.
1. Borrow capital up to your eyeballs, seek out a partner and issue stock to raise the rest.
2. Pay off all the bad debt owed by the government so the country/government doesn't cease to exist.
2. Complete the railroad.

For payment they received
1. A LOT of land. Specially chosen to grow bananas close to the railroad. Plus an agreement no property taxes on the land for a century.
2. Proceeds from the railroad for 99 years.

So after raising the capital he struck a deal with the leadership planning to go into the banana business and make a little on the side selling tickets on the railroad in exchange for bailing out the country and finishing the railroad. Bold plan! Big risk! The guy had guts. It appears he was likely hoping to make Guatemala prosperous so he would become rich. If he had succeeded we would be calling him Superman. No clue how the workers were treated. Musta been **** work though. Probably weren't used to any jobs at all. Indigenous people living off the land. I have no indication his intentions were exploitive though and no idea whether the deal was fair. I assume it was or one side or the other would have asked for more. Question is, did the government leadership who brokered the deal do so in the interest of the nation or in the interest of themselves? We can't know at this point.

LibDave » 31 Dec 2021, 3:44 am » wrote: ↑

31 Dec 2021, 3:44 am

I would have to look deeper to find out what was really going on. But at that point UF was in a pickle which explains the buyouts and mergers and ****. The government was in a pickle too as they had no capital and a partially completed railroad rusting in the jungle.

Apparently this Minor Keith guy was a really tenacious guy. That is if he was the one who came up with a plan to continue. He put up a fortune of his own money (must have been everything) but was forced to partner with another wealthy American and further issue stock for the remaining 1/3rd. This gave them enough money to complete the project. But why complete a project for someone else for free? No reward there? No way to recoup the investment and the countries leadership was broke.

Apparently he had been feeding the workers with bananas and other native fruits, growing them locally. So his plan was ingenious.
1. Borrow capital up to your eyeballs, seek out a partner and issue stock to raise the rest.
2. Pay off all the bad debt owed by the government so the country/government doesn't cease to exist.
2. Complete the railroad.

For payment they received
1. A LOT of land. Specially chosen to grow bananas close to the railroad. Plus an agreement no property taxes on the land for a century.
2. Proceeds from the railroad for 99 years.

So after raising the capital he struck a deal with the leadership planning to go into the banana business and make a little on the side selling tickets on the railroad in exchange for bailing out the country and finishing the railroad. Bold plan! Big risk! The guy had guts. It appears he was likely hoping to make Guatemala prosperous so he would become rich. If he had succeeded we would be calling him Superman. No clue how the workers were treated. Musta been **** work though. Probably weren't used to any jobs at all. Indigenous people living off the land. I have no indication his intentions were exploitive though and no idea whether the deal was fair. I assume it was or one side or the other would have asked for more. Question is, did the government leadership who brokered the deal do so in the interest of the nation or in the interest of themselves? We can't know at this point.

Corruption. Right? Good God man.
 

FOS » 31 Dec 2021, 3:33 am » wrote: ↑

31 Dec 2021, 3:33 am

lol I do not frequent unz but it is largely because unz is himself a jew. Maybe he is an outlier. Could very well be.

But I would say one of the reasons I am a fascist today is because they win their debates against everyone. Not just libertarians.

Unz lets pretty much anyone post whatever they want as long as it's sufficiently interesting...and of course that category will always include fascists and Nazis.

It is surprisingly difficult to find groupies who might put up a very strong fight...maybe some random primitivist out of nowhere could make you work for your lunch.

But basically to accept the fascist viewpoint you have to give up one of mostly dearly held liberal values: pluralism...and fascists are just like, "Uh, no, we need to oppress or at least quarantine the harmful forces, lol."

And if you think about it from a non-fascist POV...the premise is actually so stupidly simple it's amazing. "Just use power and deal with the problem."

I think the fact people are seeing just how destructive these "harmful forces" are is making them rethink that notion everyone should have a seat @ the table...especially when the table is clearly being manipulated by the power brokers. Unz articles + some allusions to historical examples (like Jews in England) made it very clear to me what was going on.
 

FOS » 31 Dec 2021, 3:47 am » wrote: ↑

31 Dec 2021, 3:47 am

Corruption. Right? Good God man.

So far I can't prove corruption up to this point.  There are at least 2 assessments which fit the scenario.  So equally possible no corruption without knowing more.

I have no way of assessing what happened in regards to the transaction.  You see during these times the leadership of these countries was very uncertain.  Very primitive legal system.  No established financial system in a modern sense.  Elections were god only knows how bad.  And it was uncertain how long the government would survive.  In fact the government basically didn't even exist other than the fact they had been put in power "SOMEHOW"!!!  They were broke *** bitches so there really WAS no government of any value.  The government somehow spent all the money given them by the US and several European nations and then some.  Then a LOT OF SOME!!!  And couldn't honor the contract with UF.  Could have been corruption but could also have just been poor management.  Few records exists to determine the truth.

If there were corruption or evil which occurred it would seem reasonable to believe it was on the side of the government leadership.  Minor Keith was obviously just trying to save his financial ***.  I can only imagine the risk he took.  Risk is a big part of what a deal is worth.  He was risking essentially more wealth than existed in the entire country!!!!  3X the wealth at least!!!!  And what he was getting in return was nearest I can tell pipe dreams for future prosperity.  Wow!!!  If he had come to me asking for investors I know I wouldn't have taken his side of the deal!!!  Sounds like something only my brother would invest in.
 
 Case in point was a similar project called the panama canal.  Cost overruns and difficulties eventually bankrupted France and they had to sell their interest to the US to remain solvent.  Several other nations had previously made the same bad risk.
 

FOS » 31 Dec 2021, 2:32 am » wrote: ↑

31 Dec 2021, 2:32 am

Don't say nation. This is a country, not a nation. A nation is a people.

I wouldn't even call the USA a country...it's more like a Special Economic Zone (SEZ)

 

FOS » 29 Dec 2021, 4:22 pm » wrote: ↑

29 Dec 2021, 4:22 pm

 There is not always work to do.

Remarkable you could say this what with all the **** banging around in that empty space between your ears.
 

IkeBana » 31 Dec 2021, 4:32 am » wrote: ↑

31 Dec 2021, 4:32 am

Remarkable you could say this what with all the **** banging around in that empty space between your ears.

It's amusing when a 0-1 SD like yourself shows up...Dave seems like a generic 1-2 SD who can construct some superficially good arguments but lacks the evidence and critical thinking to push further and draw meaningful conclusions so he's stuck repeating his talking points.

You on the other hand are some insignificant gnat who would get swatted immediately.
 
 

What is clear is the interests in the railroad exchanged in the transaction turned out to be worthless. The operating costs well exceeded the revenues received from passengers and freight by a long shot. Huge losses!!! Not surprising in a nation were wealth is quite limited and there is little available to pay for tickets. Looks like UF bankrupted out the enterprise set up for the railroad. So the railroad went belly up and it was a total loss but they had separated out the banana interests as a separate company. Not unusual and not illegal even in the US. It's actually quite a common practice to reduce risk. The bananas ended up being the saving grace for him. That enterprise was successful. I can't find any indications the workers were mistreated during this time. No riots or strikes or protests. All indications are the workers at this time were content through 1900. Steady rise in standard of living.

Well, here is some evil. Minor Keith lost everything in a scandal to someone in a early version of Bernie Madoff. More interesting is this same family has repeated the scandal in 3 out of 4 successive generations! What are they... Gypsies? Talk about con-artists! No SEC back then and no government backed insurance in the financial industry. The dude lost EVERYTHING after all that to a scammer? Jeez!! Got taken over and had nothing.

Doesn't appear as if there is any indication he was in any way evil. Kind of a visionary which is exactly what was needed throughout the region. Not for the feint of heart to attempt what he did. Actually succeeded to a certain extent. At least the people of the nation had a railroad and a major industry. Visionary, risk taker, foolish for getting scammed. But not evil. Up until he got scammed he apparently built up quite a market in Guatemala and elsewhere.

sootedupCyndi » 30 Dec 2021, 1:24 pm » wrote: ↑

30 Dec 2021, 1:24 pm

I ran for the hills when I saw that. They all endorsed Braindead.. it was a list of the who's who of the war mongers..
So did Madeline Not So Bright.. Mittens.. All of them. whah ha ha ha… so gullible liberals ARE!

The only decent reason anybody needed to vote for Clinton was the alternative. The enormous majority of us never vote for somebody, we vote against somebody else.  Politics is organized the same way everything else is organized in the human psyche.  We may have intelligence but we are still animals in the food chain.  We get what's most important to us by killing and eating some lesser creature in the foodchain.
 
 

FOS » 31 Dec 2021, 2:11 am » wrote: ↑

31 Dec 2021, 2:11 am

Trying to deconstruct criminality is very Jewish lol. Normal people know the difference. 

Just don't cheat.

If you support cheating then you should go ahead and abandon your utopian dream of meritocracy.

I dream of meritocracy?  I believe your mind reading skills have failed again.  lol.

Any way, I researched the history passed 1900.  No US government control whatsoever.  The US did give them free money which was squandered SOMEHOW. This was a Guatemalan issue with American investors and outside US jurisdiction or control.  They actually did a tremendous service for Guatemala at very high personal financial risk.  They succeeded partially in making the risk pay off.  But eventually it was all mute.  They got scammed in a Bernie Madoff type financial con and lost everything.  They left Guatemala with a railroad and a thriving banana industry though.  That's something.  Up to the year 1900 there is ZERO indication they were exploitive as you put it.  And certainly UF didn't "control" the US economy.  That's a laughable statement.

Not up to me to judge whether their elected officials were corrupt or legitimate leaders.  That's an internal issue and they are a sovereign nation.  So they should weigh in on that.  Not my place.
 
 

IkeBana » 31 Dec 2021, 5:01 am » wrote: ↑

31 Dec 2021, 5:01 am

The only decent reason anybody needed to vote for Clinton was the alternative. The enormous majority of us never vote for somebody, we vote against somebody else.  Politics is organized the same way everything else is organized in the human psyche.  We may have intelligence but we are still animals in the food chain.  We get what's most important to us by killing and eating some lesser creature in the foodchain.

yes. that's right.
Humans are like animals.. A pack will form and single out one animal.. and start to eat and attack at it.
That's what happened to Trump..
I call it, the pile on factor.  

sootedupCyndi » 31 Dec 2021, 6:09 am » wrote: ↑

31 Dec 2021, 6:09 am

yes. that's right.
Humans are like animals.. A pack will form and single out one animal.. and start to eat and attack at it.
That's what happened to Trump..
I call it, the pile on factor.

Oh...poor victim Donald Trump, eh?     Well here's the reality when it comes to Donald Trump.  What goes around, comes around.  If poor fat-*** Donald is feeling oh so sad because he's not appreciated enough, he better brace himself for the **** that's coming.
 

Jantje_Smit » 30 Dec 2021, 10:16 am » wrote: ↑

30 Dec 2021, 10:16 am

Bill Gates is definitely evil... and the technology he 'developed' too...don't tell tell me you don't get eneraged when windows promises you better tomorrows if you choose to install the next generation of corrupt updates.... not that you actually have a choice of course....

But it's nice to see you're back.... I hope you had a nice xmas in plain sight...

:faint:  
 

Got to hold our grandson.

omh » 31 Dec 2021, 8:09 am » wrote: ↑

31 Dec 2021, 8:09 am

Got to hold our grandson.

Hold him now and lay low when he's in his terrible 2's.  

sooted up Cyndi » 31 Dec 2021, 8:30 am » wrote: ↑

31 Dec 2021, 8:30 am

Hold him now and lay low when he's in his terrible 2's. :)  

My daughter will handle that wonderfully. She has my instinctive awareness about people and individual behavior to understand what a 2 year old is doing adjusting from naturally born and adopting a social identity cradle to grave mentality.

Terrible 3's are the constant why to social narratives, and by 4 years old an individual brain is nurtured to ignore now is eternity and obey power of suggesting real isn't real until dead or extinction event happens first..

Jantje_Smit » 30 Dec 2021, 10:16 am » wrote: ↑

30 Dec 2021, 10:16 am

Bill Gates is definitely evil...

BWAHAH!!! Yeh sure...and Donald Trump is a patriotic American who desires only to give white christians their country back.      

You stoopid polack.  How's it going in Oświęcim?
 

IkeBana » 31 Dec 2021, 9:06 am » wrote: ↑

31 Dec 2021, 9:06 am

BWAHAH!!! Yeh sure...

Yeah, I'm pretty sure...

..and Donald Trump is a patriotic American who desires only to give white christians their country back.    

Just like I'm pretty sure you are a severe TDS case

You stoopid polack.  How's it going in Oświęcim?

And I still don't your hatred of polacks, did they do something to you?

 


 
 

FOS » 31 Dec 2021, 2:30 am » wrote: ↑

31 Dec 2021, 2:30 am

Creative destruction. 

Come on dude. This is very naive. Read about 4he boxer rebellion in china...

Or read Smedley Butler

LibDave » 31 Dec 2021, 5:19 am » wrote: ↑

31 Dec 2021, 5:19 am

I dream of meritocracy?  I believe your mind reading skills have failed again.  lol.


 

We should all dream of Meritocracy.  The difference between us is you think 90% of the wealthiest are Michael Jordan, and I think 90% of them are Bernie Madoff

Polar1ty » 29 Dec 2021, 5:58 pm » wrote: ↑

29 Dec 2021, 5:58 pm

Are you serving exhibition #35Z0C, "Libertardian gets owned by fascist?"

...hopefully someday these authoritardians become aware that 'freedom' doesn't mean a f@cking thing without the word 'individual' [understood] preceding it...