Liberal Forum

jerrab » 09 Feb 2022, 12:25 am » wrote: ↑

09 Feb 2022, 12:25 am

if ukraine joins nato, without a doubt.

Ukraine won't DREAM of joining NATO without waking up and apologizing to Russia.

The last time they chatted about the idea, it cost them the Crimea - and all biden wanted was the fruits of corruption, while Obama let Ukraine sit in its own ****. All of the promises of protection were shown to be hollow, and now they had a pissed-off REAL leader to contend with. 

Cannonpointer » 09 Feb 2022, 3:53 am » wrote: ↑

09 Feb 2022, 3:53 am

We CAN'T disband NATO, or who will protect us from the Soviet Union?

Oh, wait...

right now nato is the chief cause of problems from russia, ironic,.

all they have to do is say that ukraine won't join nato, the answer is so simple.

https://euobserver.com/world/154316



Russian president Vladimir Putin said Monday (7 February) in Moscow that leaving Nato membership open to Ukraine risked war in Europe, in a message addressed to the French people and French president Emmanuel Macron.

"Imagine that Ukraine is a member of Nato ... This means that there will be a military confrontation between Russia and Nato," Putin said.

"Do you want to fight with Russia?. You ask your readers, viewers, users of Internet resources: 'Do you want France to fight with Russia?'. But that's the way it will be," he added.

jerrab » 09 Feb 2022, 3:31 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Feb 2022, 3:31 pm

"Imagine that Ukraine is a member of Nato ... This means that there will be a military confrontation between Russia and Nato," Putin said.

"Do you want to fight with Russia?. You ask your readers, viewers, users of Internet resources: 'Do you want France to fight with Russia?'. But that's the way it will be," he added.

people in america should get on the internet too and complain about this too,

jerrab » 09 Feb 2022, 3:26 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Feb 2022, 3:26 pm

right now nato is the chief cause of problems from russia, ironic,.

all they have to do is say that ukraine won't join nato, the answer is so simple.

https://euobserver.com/world/154316

Russian president Vladimir Putin said Monday (7 February) in Moscow that leaving Nato membership open to Ukraine risked war in Europe, in a message addressed to the French people and French president Emmanuel Macron.

It WAS that simple. The current facts on the ground are these: neither NATO NOR Ukraine are ready for that alliance. The government of Ukraine was installed against the wishes of its people by the United States in 2014.  As a result, Ukraine is an endemically corrupt state led by neo-nazis and entirely corrupted by the biden family et al - an undemocratic coup-government that is failing in real time and does not represent the people.

So there's that - NATO doesn't want those problems. 

Then there's Ukraine. The "government" knows that its INDIVIDUAL members will be badly treated in the Russian gulag, at best, if they TRY to join NATO. Russia can and will roll to the Polish border, in that event - and they will take prisoners.

So there's that - Ukraine isn't petitioning for admission.

So, "We promise not to induct Ukraine - signed, NATO" is no longer a solution. Especially given the history of such promises (google "Poland"). Russia has a rapidly failing state on its border, placed there by adversaries, specifically constituted by anti-Russians to oppose Russian interests at every turn. Putin cannot let that stand - any more than we could let an astro-turf, Chinese-made, anti-U.S. Mexican government stand. It's a Gordian Knot. Someone, somewhere, at some point, is gonna have to take a sword to it. 

Or some tank divisions, if not...

The best possible solution is reform from within, driven by pressure from without. But that's a five leaf clover, right there. A veritable hen's tooth.

My money is on tanks.
 

Cannonpointer » 09 Feb 2022, 3:46 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Feb 2022, 3:46 pm

It WAS that simple. The current facts on the ground are these: neither NATO NOR Ukraine are ready for that alliance. The government of Ukraine was installed against the wishes of its people by the United States in 2014.  As a result, Ukraine is an endemically corrupt state led by neo-nazis and entirely corrupted by the biden family et al - an undemocratic coup-government that is failing in real time and does not represent the people.

So there's that - NATO doesn't want those problems. 

Then there's Ukraine. The "government" knows that its INDIVIDUAL members will be badly treated in the Russian gulag, at best, if they TRY to join NATO. Russia can and will roll to the Polish border, in that event - and they will take prisoners.

So there's that - Ukraine isn't petitioning for admission.

So, "We promise not to induct Ukraine - signed, NATO" is no longer a solution. Especially given the history of such promises (google "Poland"). Russia has a rapidly failing state on its border, placed there by adversaries, specifically constituted by anti-Russians to oppose Russian interests at every turn. Putin cannot let that stand - any more than we could let an astro-turf, Chinese-made, anti-U.S. Mexican government stand. It's a Gordian Knot. Someone, somewhere, at some point, is gonna have to take a sword to it. 

Or some tank divisions, if not...

The best possible solution is reform from within, driven by pressure from without. But that's a five leaf clover, right there. A veritable hen's tooth.

My money is on tanks.

if ukraiine is not asking for permission is russia aware of it? 

I would say talks with ukraine and russia would be a good idea. and a peace offering to russia in the form of a cute puppy. maybe a russian wolfhound to show that ukraine respects its russian roots.

 

Ukraine is not asking to join NATO. NATO is not disposed to offer it membership either.
Economically, it is not in Russia's best interests to invade Ukraine. But the decision is up to Putin, not the Russian people.
Volodymyr Zelenskyy, the current president of Ukraine was elected in 2019 with 74% of the vote. He defeated Poroshenko, Putin's pal, who managed a sad 24% of the vote. Zelenskyy is Jewish, as is his prime minister. He favors Medical marijuana, legal abortions and the legalization of weapons.

Note that Putin likes to talk about what a super special Christian he is. Yeah, sure.
Note that Zelenskyy did NOT provide any of the information about Hunter Biden that Trump wanted to bribe him to obtain.

Xavier_Onassis » 09 Feb 2022, 5:24 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Feb 2022, 5:24 pm

Ukraine is not asking to join NATO. NATO is not disposed to offer it membership either.
Economically, it is not in Russia's best interests to invade Ukraine. But the decision is up to Putin, not the Russian people.
Volodymyr Zelenskyy, the current president of Ukraine was elected in 2019 with 74% of the vote. He defeated Poroshenko, Putin's pal, who managed a sad 24% of the vote. Zelenskyy is Jewish, as is his prime minister. He favors Medical marijuana, legal abortions and the legalization of weapons.

Note that Putin likes to talk about what a super special Christian he is. Yeah, sure.
Note that Zelenskyy did NOT provide any of the information about Hunter Biden that Trump wanted to bribe him to obtain.

Does Ukraine have any friends.?
If you live next door to the Russian Bear, then maybe should have lined up some
friends after WW II.

Are Ukraine & Russia full of highly intelligent White Men who like to play games?
Yeah......me, too.           Do they speak the same language?

The Ukrainians slipped.    The honest citizen in the street said he was not worried.
I smell a dead rat in the barn.      Something is amiss.     This is why I win so many
poker games.              I do not let my opponent lure me into a trap.
Let's keep our eyes open.       Let's smell the air.....like Labrador Dog.              

jerrab » 09 Feb 2022, 4:51 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Feb 2022, 4:51 pm

if ukraiine is not asking for permission is russia aware of it? 

I would say talks with ukraine and russia would be a good idea. and a peace offering to russia in the form of a cute puppy. maybe a russian wolfhound to show that ukraine respects its russian roots.

I think Ukrainians should either get rid of the anti-russian coup leaders Obama/Biden installed, or bone up on their **** ruskie. 

Cannonpointer » 09 Feb 2022, 6:29 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Feb 2022, 6:29 pm

I think Ukrainians should either get rid of the anti-russian coup leaders Obama/Biden installed, or bone up on their **** ruskie.

Sir,
I think I will keep you.
With, or without, your permission.
Don't make me put a chain around your neck...........and throw you into a cage.

I am a White Man.
I have done so....................many times.                                   

Cannonpointer » 09 Feb 2022, 6:29 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Feb 2022, 6:29 pm

I think Ukrainians should either get rid of the anti-russian coup leaders Obama/Biden installed, or bone up on their **** ruskie.

Sir,
Your depth.......of soul..........amazes me.
Your freedom..........will not be denied.

Jesus loves you.
And I like you.
It seems you have friends in high places.

Your freedom will not be denied upon this Earth.

https://youtu.be/ZX56rbqZhto

We wouldn't want Russian nukes in Cuba or Mexico. I am not seeing how their requests are considered unreasonable non starters. We promised not to expand nato one inch eastward, seems like this whole thing is avoidable.

Neo » 11 Feb 2022, 3:20 pm » wrote: ↑

11 Feb 2022, 3:20 pm

We wouldn't want Russian nukes in Cuba or Mexico. I am not seeing how their requests are considered unreasonable non starters. We promised not to expand nato one inch eastward, seems like this whole thing is avoidable.

you are absolutely right. it is not unreasonable to see how russia would not like nuclear bombs at their back door which could happen if ukraine joined nato.

Crazytrain » 27 Jan 2022, 6:33 am » wrote: ↑

27 Jan 2022, 6:33 am

I see no deal here. And Biden isn't in the mood to make bad deals. Russia will enslave Ukraine.

I don't understand why he would employ an "invade&occupy" strategy that has proven a disaster for much of the post WW2 period, regardless of the size of the aggressor or lack thereof of the target, and/or tech mismatch.

Assymmetrical capability means massed attacks are vulnerable to relatively inexpensive countermeasures. It's better to starve them out.
 

Taipan » 11 Feb 2022, 3:15 pm » wrote: ↑

11 Feb 2022, 3:15 pm

Sir,
Your depth.......of soul..........amazes me.
Your freedom..........will not be denied.

Jesus loves you.
And I like you.
It seems you have friends in high places.

Your freedom will not be denied upon this Earth.

https://youtu.be/ZX56rbqZhto

ha ha ha ha how the hell you project yourself at the level of Jesus and Cannonpointer is beneath that? level playing field to living biologically here now pretender.

U.S. pulls troops as the right wing darling Putin escalates threats.

omh » 12 Feb 2022, 11:26 am » wrote: ↑

12 Feb 2022, 11:26 am

ha ha ha ha how the hell you project yourself at the level of Jesus and Cannonpointer is beneath that? level playing field to living biologically here now pretender.

Sir,
I am a mercenary bastard.
Who are you ?


https://youtu.be/X4PEetk71qo

Taipan » 12 Feb 2022, 11:59 am » wrote: ↑

12 Feb 2022, 11:59 am

Sir,
I am a mercenary bastard.
Who are you ?


https://youtu.be/X4PEetk71qo

I am an honest sole surrounded by all humanity's corrupted souls. I am only one reproduction that understands what everyone else wants kept secret until extinction event arrives.

Putin won't stop with the Ukraine. If he takes that country, he will pause for a while. His goal is to establish the Soviet Union as it was in the sixties. His next target would be Poland. Eventually he will want to swallow up other countries and demand that there even be a West and East Germany.

Arris » 12 Feb 2022, 12:04 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Feb 2022, 12:04 pm

Putin won't stop with the Ukraine. If he takes that country, he will pause for a while. His goal is to establish the Soviet Union as it was in the sixties. His next target would be Poland. Eventually he will want to swallow up other countries and demand that there even be a West and East Germany.

I agree.