Patriotism
By SJConspirator
19 Feb 2022 3:59 pm in No Holds Barred Political Forum
19 Feb 2022 5:11 pm
Crazytrain » 19 Feb 2022, 6:07 pm » wrote: ↑ Now Russian nationalists want the old Soviet union back and have their country benefit from stolen resources.
the old soviet union broke up because it wasnt russian, dude. Even after I define the terms you still dont seem to understand it.
UKRANIAN NATIONALISTS want independence from russia.
a russian that wants to conquer ukranians is EMPIRE BUILDING. that is NOT NATIONALISM
19 Feb 2022 5:16 pm
In Hitler's Germany he didn't care that other countrymen and women would be killed for the benifit of those he thought were not of aryan blood. Didn't matter if they were German citizen or not.FOS » 19 Feb 2022, 6:11 pm » wrote: ↑ the old soviet union broke up because it wasnt russian, dude. Even after I define the terms you still dont seem to understand it.
UKRANIAN NATIONALISTS want independence from russia.
a russian that wants to conquer ukranians is EMPIRE BUILDING. that is NOT NATIONALISM
19 Feb 2022 5:18 pm
Crazytrain » 19 Feb 2022, 6:16 pm » wrote: ↑ In Hitler's Germany he didn't care that other countrymen and women would be killed for the benifit of those he thought were not of aryan blood. Didn't matter if they were German citizen or not.
lol ****. Even mainstream historians will tell you that you are wrong.
hitler absolutely genuinely cared more for that 'aryan' people, like himself, than other people. This is why he is supposed to be so evil.
everything he did was consistent with the fact that he wanted the best outcomes for germans.
19 Feb 2022 5:21 pm
To be a true nationalist you gotta have love for all Americans not just certain groups like most of these people calling for states to leave the nation are not true patriots or true nationalist. They want separate and have them deem who is a true American when it's clear in the constitution that all who is born here are Americans.
Some want to restrict the vote to those they seem qualified and want to change and strip rights away from those they deem to not be true Americans.
Some want to restrict the vote to those they seem qualified and want to change and strip rights away from those they deem to not be true Americans.
19 Feb 2022 5:28 pm
wrong. That would not be nationalism. You do not understand the historical context of the rise of nationalism.Crazytrain » 19 Feb 2022, 6:21 pm » wrote: ↑ To be a true nationalist you gotta have love for all Americans not just certain groups like most of these people calling for states to leave the nation are not true patriots or true nationalist. They want separate and have them deem who is a true American when it's clear in the constitution that all who is born here are Americans.
Some want to restrict the vote to those they seem qualified and want to change and strip rights away from those they deem to not be true Americans.
It was actually in the european enlightenment a backlash against monarchy, which had built empires that ruled over diverse groups...such as the austro hungarian empire, the british empire, etc.
Nationalism...whose root is natio, or birth, were people who wanted their own nation....their own ethnicity....to have independence and self determination.
It was actually a very important part of the revolution of liberalism.
And zionism also began in this era, as a result of jews being exposed to both secularism and ideas of nationalism.
This is how the word nationalism was always used in english. You can try to just redefine it...much like our own language engineers try to redefine it...but you arent going to understand any 18th, 19th, or 20th century books related to the matter if you do.
19 Feb 2022 5:32 pm
I tend to favor the American libertarian Patriotism. EX: Volunteering to drive a bus full of voters to the poll regardless of who they vote for.SJConspirator » 19 Feb 2022, 4:10 pm » wrote: ↑\
The most ardent patriots are the same ones promoting a rat race dog eat dog vision of society with no cooperation, only competition. They seem to hate other Americans intensely. Is this a paradox?
19 Feb 2022 5:34 pm
SJConspirator » 19 Feb 2022, 4:10 pm » wrote: ↑ What does it mean to be an American Patriots?
It's defined thus: devotion to and vigorous support for one's country.
But that makes no sense to me. In every civil war, both sides claimed to be patriots as they slaughtered each other. Is patriotism expressed by murdering ones countrymen?
How does it manifest in any Way? Putting a yellow ribbon on a bumper sticker?
In this country, military vets are overepresented in suicides and homelessness. It is quite obvious this country hates vets. I am reminded of this every time I go to the VA
To me, patriotism is expressed by cooperation with fellow citizens, not by conflict with them. Yet modern Americans who deem themselves the most patriotic also seem to be the first to throw other Americans under the bus of hardship and poverty.
The most ardent patriots are the same ones promoting a rat race dog eat dog vision of society with no cooperation, only competition. They seem to hate other Americans intensely. Is this a paradox?
I once authored a thread deconstructing and critiquing patriotism as a mental disorder - have not changed my mind about that. Here are a couple of posts reflecting my opinion:
Cannonpointer » 31 Aug 2014, 9:07 pm » wrote: ↑ I consider the mental disease of patriotism, and honesty, to be mutually exclusive, son.
Cannonpointer » 15 Dec 2014, 7:08 am » wrote: ↑ As to whether I sneer at a man's oath, I do not. I expect him to honor it. I DO sneer at the belief by some that they joined the military out of patriotism, when in truth they joined it for one of the following reasons (or some combination):
1. Money for college
2. To "become a man"
3. To get their daddy to respect them
4. No other career was available
5. To adjudicate a felony
"Because I SAY I am" is fallacy, not science
You cannot betray me - only yourself, to me.
Who cuts off your dick is not your friend
An opinion you won't defend is not yours. It's someone else's.
Humanity's Law of the Jungle: Survival NOT of the fittest, but of the tribe.
When peeing in the pool, stand on the edge.
Only religions declare heresy; only lies require protection.
If gender is not sex, why should a gender claim change what sex you shower with?
You cannot betray me - only yourself, to me.
Who cuts off your dick is not your friend
An opinion you won't defend is not yours. It's someone else's.
Humanity's Law of the Jungle: Survival NOT of the fittest, but of the tribe.
When peeing in the pool, stand on the edge.
Only religions declare heresy; only lies require protection.
If gender is not sex, why should a gender claim change what sex you shower with?
19 Feb 2022 5:38 pm
SJConspirator » 19 Feb 2022, 4:20 pm » wrote: ↑ The clearest definition I can see for patriot:
One who loves his country's flag and hates his country's people
II have made that same observation.
"Because I SAY I am" is fallacy, not science
You cannot betray me - only yourself, to me.
Who cuts off your dick is not your friend
An opinion you won't defend is not yours. It's someone else's.
Humanity's Law of the Jungle: Survival NOT of the fittest, but of the tribe.
When peeing in the pool, stand on the edge.
Only religions declare heresy; only lies require protection.
If gender is not sex, why should a gender claim change what sex you shower with?
You cannot betray me - only yourself, to me.
Who cuts off your dick is not your friend
An opinion you won't defend is not yours. It's someone else's.
Humanity's Law of the Jungle: Survival NOT of the fittest, but of the tribe.
When peeing in the pool, stand on the edge.
Only religions declare heresy; only lies require protection.
If gender is not sex, why should a gender claim change what sex you shower with?
19 Feb 2022 5:40 pm
Crazytrain » 19 Feb 2022, 6:21 pm » wrote: ↑ To be a true nationalist you gotta have love for all Americans not just certain groups like most of these people calling for states to leave the nation are not true patriots or true nationalist. They want separate and have them deem who is a true American when it's clear in the constitution that all who is born here are Americans.
Some want to restrict the vote to those they seem qualified and want to change and strip rights away from those they deem to not be true Americans.
bear in mind that the 'founding fathers' as deep as they were into liberal philosophy, REVOLTED against the overly diverse british empire and constructed a country that only allowed citizenship to white people. They were white nationalists. They obviously werent patriots, because they started a civil war.
19 Feb 2022 5:43 pm
Happy horse ****.Neo » 19 Feb 2022, 5:48 pm » wrote: ↑ Hating government dependence is different from hating those so dependent. Patriotism is simply love of country, of it's past and present. To love America is to love democracy, win or lose. To love America is to love diversity and the entrepreneur. To love America is to love religious and personal liberties.
Love of fellow man manifests at the local level. You want to see REAL patriotism? Girl Scout leaders. PTA members.
You wanna pretend you can love 300 million mother ****? Who are you - Jesus? Try getting along with your **** neighbors on each side and across the street, and then work outward. You won't make it to the town limits before your expiration date.
"Because I SAY I am" is fallacy, not science
You cannot betray me - only yourself, to me.
Who cuts off your dick is not your friend
An opinion you won't defend is not yours. It's someone else's.
Humanity's Law of the Jungle: Survival NOT of the fittest, but of the tribe.
When peeing in the pool, stand on the edge.
Only religions declare heresy; only lies require protection.
If gender is not sex, why should a gender claim change what sex you shower with?
You cannot betray me - only yourself, to me.
Who cuts off your dick is not your friend
An opinion you won't defend is not yours. It's someone else's.
Humanity's Law of the Jungle: Survival NOT of the fittest, but of the tribe.
When peeing in the pool, stand on the edge.
Only religions declare heresy; only lies require protection.
If gender is not sex, why should a gender claim change what sex you shower with?
19 Feb 2022 5:45 pm
Patriotism is when you feel so strongly about something you're willing to get your *** kicked or worse in defense of it
19 Feb 2022 5:48 pm
The brits were diverse?FOS » 19 Feb 2022, 6:40 pm » wrote: ↑ bear in mind that the 'founding fathers' as deep as they were into liberal philosophy, REVOLTED against the overly diverse british empire and constructed a country that only allowed citizenship to white people. They were white nationalists. They obviously werent patriots, because they started a civil war.
"Because I SAY I am" is fallacy, not science
You cannot betray me - only yourself, to me.
Who cuts off your dick is not your friend
An opinion you won't defend is not yours. It's someone else's.
Humanity's Law of the Jungle: Survival NOT of the fittest, but of the tribe.
When peeing in the pool, stand on the edge.
Only religions declare heresy; only lies require protection.
If gender is not sex, why should a gender claim change what sex you shower with?
You cannot betray me - only yourself, to me.
Who cuts off your dick is not your friend
An opinion you won't defend is not yours. It's someone else's.
Humanity's Law of the Jungle: Survival NOT of the fittest, but of the tribe.
When peeing in the pool, stand on the edge.
Only religions declare heresy; only lies require protection.
If gender is not sex, why should a gender claim change what sex you shower with?
19 Feb 2022 5:50 pm
Agree to a point.Cannonpointer » 19 Feb 2022, 6:43 pm » wrote: ↑ Happy horse ****.
Love of fellow man manifests at the local level. You want to see REAL patriotism? Girl Scout leaders. PTA members.
You wanna pretend you can love 300 million mother ****? Who are you - Jesus? Try getting along with your **** neighbors on each side and across the street, and then work outward. You won't make it to the town limits before your expiration date.
19 Feb 2022 5:50 pm
the british empire was, of course...they covered like 4 continents
19 Feb 2022 5:52 pm
FOS » 19 Feb 2022, 6:50 pm » wrote: ↑ the british empire was, of course...they covered like 4 continents
Yeah... Running **** in India ain't zackly "diversity" by today's standards. Kinda the opposite...
"Because I SAY I am" is fallacy, not science
You cannot betray me - only yourself, to me.
Who cuts off your dick is not your friend
An opinion you won't defend is not yours. It's someone else's.
Humanity's Law of the Jungle: Survival NOT of the fittest, but of the tribe.
When peeing in the pool, stand on the edge.
Only religions declare heresy; only lies require protection.
If gender is not sex, why should a gender claim change what sex you shower with?
You cannot betray me - only yourself, to me.
Who cuts off your dick is not your friend
An opinion you won't defend is not yours. It's someone else's.
Humanity's Law of the Jungle: Survival NOT of the fittest, but of the tribe.
When peeing in the pool, stand on the edge.
Only religions declare heresy; only lies require protection.
If gender is not sex, why should a gender claim change what sex you shower with?
19 Feb 2022 5:55 pm
Cannonpointer » 19 Feb 2022, 6:52 pm » wrote: ↑ Yeah... Running **** in India ain't zackly "diversity" by today's standards. Kinda the opposite...
it was back then, especially during the rise of liberalism and nationalism.
monarchs were actually quite happy with diversity. it simply meant more power to them.
liberalism contained within it a 'right' of 'self determination'....hidden in the phrase "no taxation without representation".
Now i am not a liberal myself, of course. but that aspect of liberalism agrees with my own perspective...and happens to be the only part of liberalism that was discarded in the 1960s
19 Feb 2022 6:43 pm
the history of european monarchy was a consolidation of power based on kings using foreign people against the ambitions of their own nobles.Cannonpointer » 19 Feb 2022, 6:52 pm » wrote: ↑ Yeah... Running **** in India ain't zackly "diversity" by today's standards. Kinda the opposite...
18th century liberal nationalism was a backlash against that trend.
19 Feb 2022 7:06 pm
The majority of modern fascists seem to have gotten there from a libertarian to fascist pipeline...largely motivated by respect for freedom of association and anger over the betrayal of woke capital.
I personally was actually a monarchist and came to fascism by the above realization, well documented and explained by the political philosopher and historian Bertrand de jouvenal...and the whole phenomenon of the top and low alliance against the middle and how monarchy incentivizes it.
That was also the monarchist to fascist pipeline in the 1920s....which was the biggest group that converted.
I personally was actually a monarchist and came to fascism by the above realization, well documented and explained by the political philosopher and historian Bertrand de jouvenal...and the whole phenomenon of the top and low alliance against the middle and how monarchy incentivizes it.
That was also the monarchist to fascist pipeline in the 1920s....which was the biggest group that converted.
19 Feb 2022 7:37 pm
Your first sentence supports what I have said.dickens » 19 Feb 2022, 4:40 pm » wrote: ↑ This is because US military recruits from the underprivileged groups. Many people who would make good warriors (those who feel no fear or almost no fear) will not go to the military. They would prefer to die for nothing while rock climbing than to die for banksters.
If you read Flaubert's Salambo about the revolt of the mercenaries you will find out that the attitude of the Carthaginians towards people who fought for them is similar to that of the Americans. And they also hated Hannibal and Hastrabal.
People have many reasons to end up in the military
Cannonpointer listed a few of the most common (which I also agree with).
I maintain that our military is peopled by personal reasons.
Most of them boil down to money... or lack of.
Sure, there is some pride and serving-your-country recruits in the mix.
But the low hanging fruit is the bulk of it: Needing a break or a paycheck.
Is that somehow bad? Or is it just the way it is? I lean toward the latter rather than the former.
Please seat yourself.
I like the very things you hate.
I like the very things you hate.
19 Feb 2022 7:38 pm
FOS » 19 Feb 2022, 8:06 pm » wrote: ↑ The majority of modern fascists seem to have gotten there from a libertarian to fascist pipeline...largely motivated by respect for freedom of association and anger over the betrayal of woke capital.
I personally was actually a monarchist and came to fascism by the above realization, well documented and explained by the political philosopher and historian Bertrand de jouvenal...and the whole phenomenon of the top and low alliance against the middle and how monarchy incentivizes it.
That was also the monarchist to fascist pipeline in the 1920s....which was the biggest group that converted.
freedom of association is virtually nonexistent in urban USA . Diversity is forced, and you better PRETEND to be happy about it.
every nationalist fighting force has been based on race. Chetniks, Ustashi, Irgun and countless others. Those fighters were elite. Fighting forces that work for empires like the US or the old British empire, are not patriots or even soldiers..they are mercs
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