Liberal Forum

Neo » 05 Jun 2022, 11:54 am » wrote: ↑

05 Jun 2022, 11:54 am

The media spin is ludicrous. Calling the action a failure because they didn't accomplish things they never stated they had intentions of doing. They didn't take Kiev in a week? They never tried. What stated goal has Russia failed? Nato free Ukraine, donbas on it's way to independence. If Russia provided billions in arms to the Taliban I bet they would have put up a better fight too.

Ukraine is closer to NATO than it previously was. 
Same for Finland and Sweden. 

Watch for big changes in Russia in the coming months. Corruption begets failure. Failure begets unrest. Unrest ... we'll you can guess. 

Olivaw » 05 Jun 2022, 2:40 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Jun 2022, 2:40 pm

There is no question. You don't understand the term "the man".

Do you think CCR was talking about employment in the judicial branch?

"The man" is rule of law directing outcomes designed for tomorrow arriving already here but ignored by most serving intellectual speculation rather than human evolving in plain sight.

Trump is clearly the VERY WORST president in my lifetime.
LBJ and Obama were the best.

If Biden had the same degree of cooperation from the Republicans as LBJ had, he could easily be one of the best.
 

Olivaw » 05 Jun 2022, 2:44 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Jun 2022, 2:44 pm

Ukraine is closer to NATO than it previously was. 
Same for Finland and Sweden. 

Watch for big changes in Russia in the coming months. Corruption begets failure. Failure begets unrest. Unrest ... we'll you can guess.

Disagree. Ukraine will surrender and part of that surrender will be a nato neutrality agreement. An agreement they made decades ago but seemed determined to violate. Before the invasion joining nato was adopted into their constitution. Please tell me how signing an agreement to never join nato in return for a cease fire gets them closer?
 
 

Olivaw » 05 Jun 2022, 2:40 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Jun 2022, 2:40 pm

There is no question. You don't understand the term "the man".

Do you think CCR was talking about employment in the judicial branch?

CCR ws talking about the judicil system, retard - CLEARLY. That's what was backing the executive in aarresting and prosecuting drft dodgers duh. 

You are a boot licking authority worshiper. 
 

I always support our president no matter who he is!
Sure, I hated Trump because I knew he was an ASSHOLE and not qualified for the job. But I did not want him to fail, because that would have been bad for our country. Joe has made some mistakes, granted, but like a marriage its ; "For better or for worse"
We should not wish Joe to fail; that's very unpatriotic!
And would be bad for our country!  
 

Olivaw » 05 Jun 2022, 10:22 am » wrote: ↑

05 Jun 2022, 10:22 am

The egg on Putin's face from Zelensky's courageous resistance is riotously funny.

We'll see who laughs last  . . . 

nuckinfutz » 05 Jun 2022, 6:26 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Jun 2022, 6:26 pm

I always support our president no matter who he is!
Sure, I hated Trump because I knew he was an ASSHOLE and not qualified for the job. But I did not want him to fail, because that would have been bad for our country. Joe has made some mistakes, granted, but like a marriage its ; "For better or for worse"
We should not wish Joe to fail; that's very unpatriotic!
And would be bad for our country!

He’s non compos mentis

He failed before he even started.

It’s the abuse of the elderly.

Xavier_Onassis » 05 Jun 2022, 3:16 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Jun 2022, 3:16 pm

Trump is clearly the VERY WORST president in my lifetime.
LBJ and Obama were the best.

If Biden had the same degree of cooperation from the Republicans as LBJ had, he could easily be one of the best.

I know you snowflakes suffer from TDS and are severely brainwashed and indoctrinated.... but still... don't you realize how insane that sounds?

 

https://youtu.be/U2AkzR8wde8

Xavier_Onassis » 05 Jun 2022, 3:16 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Jun 2022, 3:16 pm

Trump is clearly the VERY WORST president in my lifetime.
LBJ and Obama were the best.

If Biden had the same degree of cooperation from the Republicans as LBJ had, he could easily be one of the best.
 

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. when LBJ was president dems controlled legislative, executive, judicial branches since FDR packed the court with progressive justices on all levels of federal courts.

I learned from my ancestors mistakes blindly following hope, faith, charity from those socially engineering outcomes forward each generation only arriving now.

Xavier_Onassis » 05 Jun 2022, 3:16 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Jun 2022, 3:16 pm

Trump is clearly the VERY WORST president in my lifetime.
LBJ and Obama were the best.

If Biden had the same degree of cooperation from the Republicans as LBJ had, he could easily be one of the best.

 IN WHAT WAY...DID HE HURT YOUR FEELINGS WITH A TWEETfor the record...which one of these TRUMP accomplishments makes him the worst
OH...NO OPINIONS.....FACTUAL LINKS WILL DO JUST FINE
AND REMEMBER, WE DON'T GIVE A **** ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL FEELINGS America gained 7 million new jobs – more than three times government experts’ projections. Middle-Class family income increased by nearly $6,000 – more than five times the gains during the entire previous administration. The unemployment rate reached 3.5 percent, the lowest in a half-century. Achieved 40 months in a row with more job openings than job hirings. More Americans reported being employed than ever before – nearly 160 million. Jobless claims hit a nearly 50-year low. The number of people claiming unemployment insurance as a share of the population hit its lowest on record. Incomes rose in every single metro area in the United States for the first time in nearly 3 decades. Delivered a future of greater promise and opportunity for citizens of all backgrounds. Unemployment rates for African Americans, Hispanic Americans, Asian Americans, Native Americans, veterans, individuals with disabilities,

and those without a high school diploma all reached record lows. Unemployment for women hit its lowest rate in nearly 70 years. Lifted nearly 7 million people off of food stamps. OH, HERE ARE A FEW LINKS New Jobs Report Shows Record Unemployment Lows for … https://www.heritage.org/jobs-and-labor/commentary/...May 03, 2019 · At 4.2% the Hispanic unemployment rate is the lowest it has ever been, and at 3.1% the adult women unemployment rate reached its lowest since 1953.
3.6 percent The headlines write themselves: The unemployment rate has just fallen to an almost 50-year low of 3.6 percent, the economy has now added jobs for a record 103 straight months, and while wage gains are still slightly muted at only 3.2 percent over the past year, the largest of them are at least going to people with the lowest incomes. America gained 7 million new jobs – more than three times government experts’ projections. Middle-Class family income increased nearly $6,000 – more than five times the gains during the entire previous administration. The unemployment rate reached 3.5 percent, the lowest in a half-century.   
 

Cannonpointer » 05 Jun 2022, 11:44 am » wrote: ↑

05 Jun 2022, 11:44 am

Ya see what you did there? You equated a hostile coup government being installed in Ukraine through mischief, to Mexico getting along well with the interntional community.

Maybe that is sloppiness on your part - not sliminess. But the act itself is slimy and unworthy.

There is no "also," here.

Collapsing friendly relations with a coup is not a refutation - it's a slime.

Your military analysis on the heels of collapsing friendly international relations among elected governments with the overthrow of a democratic government and the installtion of a coup government hostile to its neighbor is taken under due consideration.

Or provide a tape of it happening in real time, with the mischief-makers deciding who would run the coup government.

Six of one, half dozen of the other.

You don't have a perspective - you just admitted as much. A three minute clip is too great an investment - so the paltry **** you wanna spout does not, by any stretch, amount to a perspective.

You ****-mouthing that the protests were organic - which is utterly irrelevant in any case: so **** what if they were? - does not change the facts of the media you chose to ignore.

This is what you defend. This is what you are siding with. This is the agenda that NATO is trying to impose on Russia:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcmyUXxFSIM&t=1s

https://www.sas.upenn.edu/sasalum/newsl ... rozin.html
Some times we act with disgust and tie it to morality. You probably need to tie it to culture and not the unlawful invasion of a foreign nation. You might disagree but the skulls of World War II proved something.
 

Cannonpointer » 05 Jun 2022, 11:44 am » wrote: ↑

05 Jun 2022, 11:44 am

Ya see what you did there? You equated a hostile coup government being installed in Ukraine through mischief, to Mexico getting along well with the interntional community.

Maybe that is sloppiness on your part - not sliminess. But the act itself is slimy and unworthy.

There is no "also," here.

Collapsing friendly relations with a coup is not a refutation - it's a slime.

Your military analysis on the heels of collapsing friendly international relations among elected governments with the overthrow of a democratic government and the installtion of a coup government hostile to its neighbor is taken under due consideration.

Or provide a tape of it happening in real time, with the mischief-makers deciding who would run the coup government.

Six of one, half dozen of the other.

You don't have a perspective - you just admitted as much. A three minute clip is too great an investment - so the paltry **** you wanna spout does not, by any stretch, amount to a perspective.

You ****-mouthing that the protests were organic - which is utterly irrelevant in any case: so **** what if they were? - does not change the facts of the media you chose to ignore.

This is what you defend. This is what you are siding with. This is the agenda that NATO is trying to impose on Russia:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcmyUXxFSIM&t=1s

It's called culture shock too. Or maybe a skit Donald Trump did on SNL. Zelensky was a comedian before he was president.

Monderegal » 06 Jun 2022, 3:56 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Jun 2022, 3:56 pm

https://www.sas.upenn.edu/sasalum/newsl ... rozin.html
Some times we act with disgust and tie it to morality. You probably need to tie it to culture and not the unlawful invasion of a foreign nation. You might disagree but the skulls of World War II proved something.

Do you bring ANYTHING, kid?

You've danced around my thesis, pretended to refspond to it by comparing friendly relations between nations (Mexico and China) with overthrowing a government (USA and Ukraine - proof provided and you danced around it), and when challengd to correct yourself, you've spewed the weak, off topic **** above. 

Is this it, then? Is this the best we'll get from you on this topic? Is this your A-game on Ukraine and Russia Russia Russia?

And if so, why the **** did you bother? You already admitted that three minutes is more than you are willing to spend looking aat direct evidence. It's CLEARLY not an issue you give a **** about - notwithstanding it is a critical and monumentl issue of our day, and you are a fellow who frequents a political board, So, that is ALREADY kind of **** up. And then there's this waffling, trip around the maypole, pop goes the weasel approach to "debate" - makes no sense.
 
 
 

Monderegal » 06 Jun 2022, 4:17 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Jun 2022, 4:17 pm

It's called culture shock too. Or maybe a skit Donald Trump did on SNL. Zelensky was a comedian before he was president.

Overthrowing a democrtically elected government where you are a guest on their soil,  and supplanting it with a coup government at enmity with your neighbor, causing your offended neighbor to invade you - that's "culture shock" to you?

Or were you avoiding the actual topic and trying to divert to a sub-topic?
 

Cannonpointer » 06 Jun 2022, 6:23 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Jun 2022, 6:23 pm

Overthrowing a democrtically elected government where you are a guest on their soil,  and supplanting it with a coup government at enmity with your neighbor, causing your offended neighbor to invade you - that's "culture shock" to you?

Or were you avoiding the actual topic and trying to divert to a sub-topic?

I was just making a subtopic out of the video you shared. 

Monderegal » 06 Jun 2022, 6:52 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Jun 2022, 6:52 pm

I was just making a subtopic out of the video you shared.

While voiding the PERTINENT media which demonstrates that Obama's administration overthrew the elected government of Ukraine, starting this mess.

Those who favor the US proxy government in Ukraine over the LEGITIMATE govrnment of Russia cosign that evil deed and become co-perpitrators of it. The pretense that this matter began with Russia's incursion onto Ukrainian soil serves only lies and liars.

Are you one such, sir? 

Cannonpointer » 06 Jun 2022, 6:14 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Jun 2022, 6:14 pm

Do you bring ANYTHING, kid?

You've danced around my thesis, pretended to refspond to it by comparing friendly relations between nations (Mexico and China) with overthrowing a government (USA and Ukraine - proof provided and you danced around it), and when challengd to correct yourself, you've spewed the weak, off topic **** above. 

Is this it, then? Is this the best we'll get from you on this topic? Is this your A-game on Ukraine and Russia Russia Russia?

And if so, why the **** did you bother? You already admitted that three minutes is more than you are willing to spend looking aat direct evidence. It's CLEARLY not an issue you give a **** about - notwithstanding it is a critical and monumentl issue of our day, and you are a fellow who frequents a political board, So, that is ALREADY kind of **** up. And then there's this waffling, trip around the maypole, pop goes the weasel approach to "debate" - makes no sense.

Well let's look at the situation. First, Ukraine would almost definitely never have joined NATO before the war. That is almost a guarantee. Second, Zelensky was on the way out anyways given his unpopularity before the war. Third, even if Ukraine joined NATO (and that's a big if) it would not have used it as a pretext to threaten Russian territory. Fourth, Russia signed a non aggression pact with Ukraine in 1994 when Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons. Fifth, Russia has caused these so called "coups" in Ukraine too. They have also helped install pro Russian leaders over the past two decades. The West and Russia BOTH played the game. You call them coups, I just call it foreign meddling which is not a black and white issue. Hell, Russia played the game in America by supporting Donald Trump given Putin's dislike for Hillary Clinton. Finally, this is an actual war with dead bodies and buildings and historic landmarks lying in ruin. War is always an extreme measure and Putin's use of force was illegal under international law and practices. He has NO justification other than a blind grab of territory because he didn't like the politics of Ukraine. Perhaps he had his reasons but I personally don't support this measure for that reason too.
Sorry, I've been responding from my cell phone today. We live in a world of laws and norms. It's not perfect but if it weren't true Putin's army would be on Poland's doorstep right now.

Monderegal » 06 Jun 2022, 7:14 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Jun 2022, 7:14 pm

Well let's look at the situation. First, Ukraine would almost definitely never have joined NATO before the war. That is almost a guarantee.

Almost doesn't count in war.
In any case, the 38 biological weapons laboratories the CIA/NWO et al were operating on Russia's border in violation of international law are more than sufficient justification, even if your "almost" were changed to "certainly."

Monderegal » 06 Jun 2022, 7:14 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Jun 2022, 7:14 pm

Second, Zelensky was on the way out anyways given his unpopularity before the war.

Which US proxy heads that fatally compromised ****-show of a state is not relevnt to Russi's justifiction for invsion.

Monderegal » 06 Jun 2022, 7:14 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Jun 2022, 7:14 pm

Third, even if Ukraine joined NATO (and that's a big if) it would not have used it as a pretext to threaten Russian territory.

Enemy missiles on one's border seem less threatening to those pointing than to those being pointed at, Dr. Kissinger.

Monderegal » 06 Jun 2022, 7:14 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Jun 2022, 7:14 pm

Fourth, Russia signed a non aggression pact with Ukraine in 1994 when Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons.

Nonaggression pacts are not suicide pacts. They are two way streets. Bio-weapons labs operated by strategic enemies violate those - as do mass murders of ethnic Russians by committed Nazis empowered by the state..

Monderegal » 06 Jun 2022, 7:14 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Jun 2022, 7:14 pm

Fifth, Russia has caused these so called "coups" in Ukraine too.

Because you just said so.

Even if that *** pull were true, it isn't relevant to Russia's position in responding to the US doing so. We have fostered coups in Mexico. Are you under the impression this gives Russia the right to plant a hostile government on our border?

I dare you answer this question for yourself with a yes or no - understanding that a no will negate your argument on this point.

Monderegal » 06 Jun 2022, 7:14 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Jun 2022, 7:14 pm

They have also helped install pro Russian leaders over the past two decades.

One certainly hopes so, or they are not doing their job.

Monderegal » 06 Jun 2022, 7:14 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Jun 2022, 7:14 pm

The West and Russia BOTH played the game. You call them coups, I just call it foreign meddling which is not a black and white issue.

Good - this is a good start. It's not a black and white issue.

Keep noodling. When you get to it's none of your **** business, you have arrived - then you can start addressing the fact that the white house is occupied by a man who lost the election and had it stolen for him.

You know - your REAL business - not the **** that fox and msnbc would have you on about. .

Monderegal » 06 Jun 2022, 7:14 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Jun 2022, 7:14 pm

Hell, Russia played the game in America by supporting Donald Trump given Putin's dislike for Hillary Clinton.

The nice lady who sold him Uranium One and left four years of State Department work product cooling on the window sill like an apple pie for him to take?

Are you drunk?

Monderegal » 06 Jun 2022, 7:14 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Jun 2022, 7:14 pm

Finally, this is an actual war with dead bodies and buildings and historic landmarks lying in ruin.

Like Yemen, you mean? Or Nicargua? Or Panama? Or lybia? Or Syria? Or Afghnistan? Or Vietnam? Or Iraq? Or El Salvador? Or GUatemala?

Like those places, you mean? Continued...
 

Monderegal » 06 Jun 2022, 7:14 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Jun 2022, 7:14 pm

War is always an extreme measure

Is it? You say so - our nation's policy indicates otherwise. We're the guys who sell the guns to both sides in most wars. There are ten official wars and 8 active military conflicts recognized by the United States at this time. And we all know this is an undercount. 18 x two sides (and there are alwys more than two sides) = 15% of the world's countries - undercounting as to both conflicts and parties. 

Doesn't sound all that extreme, if you look at it mathematiclly. 

Monderegal » 06 Jun 2022, 7:14 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Jun 2022, 7:14 pm

and Putin's use of force was illegal under international law and practices. He has NO justification other than a blind grab of territory because he didn't like the politics of Ukraine.

Every war is fought because one side doesn't like the politics of the other.

You can google it - I'm not making this up. It's true.

But opinions differ on your MSNBC "no other reason" narrative. Those bio-wepons labs. The mass murders in Eastern Ukraine. The ongoing unilteral violations of the Minsk Accords. The reasons have piled up - you've just not been programmed to pay them any mind.

Monderegal » 06 Jun 2022, 7:14 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Jun 2022, 7:14 pm

Perhaps he had his reasons but I personally don't support this measure for that reason too.

Putin has not requested your support.

Monderegal » 06 Jun 2022, 7:14 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Jun 2022, 7:14 pm

Sorry, I've been responding from my cell phone today. We live in a world of laws and norms. It's not perfect but if it weren't true Putin's army would be on Poland's doorstep right now.

Poland is part of NATO. Russia's economy is smaller then Brazil's. Settle down, Francis.