Liberal Forum

Cannonpointer » 26 Aug 2022, 8:17 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Aug 2022, 8:17 pm

Exactly.

I have solved it in just two weighings under that condition, but only when replacing 2 marbles from side a and one from side b with control marbles results in an even weighing. I can work it in a single weighing from there. But that is only going to happen 3/8ths of the time. And you will get an even weighing on the original 4x4 only 1/3rd of the time. So it's just over a 70% solution under my scheme. 

But if the second weighing is still not even, I cannot work it in a single weighing from there. I need two. So I am either incorrect in my second step, or unable to figure out my last step properly in the event of an odd weighing. 

If the second weighing is still odd, that means I have 5 suspect marbles - 3 on one side and two on another. If there's a way to find the suspect in a single move, it sure as hell isn't one I can find. Which makes me think my second step is a half measure in the first place.

It's impossible in two tries, unless you get unbelievably lucky. 

But you're on the right track, you start with four, and you need to move those around, and your 2nd weighing is four each as well. And at that point you have all your data to make the final weighing of 1x1. To determine which marble is different, and also if it is heavier or lighter. 
 
You have to remember the way the scales move on each turn.... and remember which marble made the difference... You're doing great! 
 

DeezerShoove » 26 Aug 2022, 7:46 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Aug 2022, 7:46 pm

I am with you for the first step.
4x4 gets you a control group (or two if they balance).
The remaining odd four are easy to sort in two weighings.

If the first 4x4 do not balance, isn't this where the "solution" and actually the problem really is?

How do you find 1 odd ball out of 8 in just two weighings?

Well it's one of the possibilities. Regardless, the solution will be the same. It is the process that defines the solution. The steps to the solution will be the same regardless, and never fail. 

Regardless of the first 4x4 weighing, you have 4 in a control group. You have to use that. But not all of them, just 3 and move the others around. 

That's why I say you can't get lucky, because if you do, I will falsify that. But you're so close! 
 
 
 

Move around 3 marbles on ur 2nd turn. Based on your control group. That will give you the final answer on the 3rd try, with 1x1 marbles.

RunningWithScissors » 27 Aug 2022, 2:08 am » wrote: ↑

27 Aug 2022, 2:08 am

Move around 3 marbles on ur 2nd turn. Based on your control group. That will give you the final answer on the 3rd try, with 1x1 marbles.

lol... what happened to this?

RunningWithScissors » 26 Aug 2022, 1:06 am » wrote: ↑

26 Aug 2022, 1:06 am

If Cannon says give it up, I'll do it. Because he's the closest, and this is getting boring.

Cannonpointer » 26 Aug 2022, 4:12 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Aug 2022, 4:12 pm

That is another dead end, for me. I am going to don my softest leather loafers - **** that, my cloth slippers - and prepare to kick my own ***. @RunningWithScissors, @Jantje_Smit, I surrender.

 
 
 

Jantje_Smit » 27 Aug 2022, 2:33 am » wrote: ↑

27 Aug 2022, 2:33 am

lol... what happened to this?

 

I told you it's really hard, and I have to rethink it every time. But that's not what fooled you. You gave up. 

!st weighing is 4x4. 2nd is also 4x4. 3rd is 1xt. Sorry if you gave up because of that. But Cannon is on it right now... 
 

But i never should have given hints in the 1st place, so don't blame your failure on me. :-)
 

RunningWithScissors » 27 Aug 2022, 2:40 am » wrote: ↑

27 Aug 2022, 2:40 am

But i never should have given hints in the 1st place, so don't blame your failure on me. :-)

It's not my failure, it's yours.... you need to prove me wrong...

But since I don't have anything better to do... well, I have better things to do but I decided the window cleaning can wait... lol... 

Regardless of the first 4x4 weighing, you have 4 in a control group. You have to use that. But not all of them, just 3 and move the others around.

 

Move around 3 marbles on ur 2nd turn. Based on your control group. That will give you the final answer on the 3rd try, with 1x1 marbles.

If the first 4x4 doesn't balance that leaves you with 8 marbles with one in it that's either heavier or lighter... you can move 3 marbles around but there is no way a 3x3 weighing will leave you with 1x1 that will also tell you if the odd marble is lighter or heavier... 8-6 = 2.. so you could be left with two marbles, one of which is lighter or heavier..

As I said, I wouldn't mind being proven wrong but I doesn't look like that's going to happen...

 
 
 

Jantje_Smit » 27 Aug 2022, 3:33 am » wrote: ↑

27 Aug 2022, 3:33 am

It's not my failure, it's yours.... you need to prove me wrong...

But since I don't have anything better to do... well, I have better things to do but I decided the window cleaning can wait... lol... 

If the first 4x4 doesn't balance that leaves you with 8 marbles with one in it that's either heavier or lighter... you can move 3 marbles around but there is no way a 3x3 weighing will leave you with 1x1 that will also tell you if the odd marble is lighter or heavier... 8-6 = 2.. so you could be left with two marbles, one of which is lighter or heavier..

As I said, I wouldn't mind being proven wrong but I doesn't look like that's going to happen...

If the first 4x4 don't balance, you have 4 marbles that are equal in your hand. That's the control set. If they do balance, then they're still your control set, because now you know one is different in your hand. 
 
 

The second weighing based on that logic, is how to solve this.

And it's 4x4 as a hint. You have to move them around, 
 

RunningWithScissors » 27 Aug 2022, 4:55 am » wrote: ↑

27 Aug 2022, 4:55 am

The second weighing based on that logic, is how to solve this.

And it's 4x4 as a hint. You have to move them around,

I would say my logic already solved it...

But what's your excuse for not doing as you promised.... again?

 


 

Jantje_Smit » 27 Aug 2022, 5:22 am » wrote: ↑

27 Aug 2022, 5:22 am

I would say my logic already solved it...

But what's your excuse for not doing as you promised.... again?

Sry bro, you're waaay off. 

I don't want to insult you, because you are my friend. Just trust me on this... 

I'll pm it to you if you want, if that'll stop your polyphagia. Just promise not to give it up to peeps that are still trying.

RunningWithScissors » 27 Aug 2022, 5:34 am » wrote: ↑

27 Aug 2022, 5:34 am

I'll pm it to you if you want, if that'll stop your polyphagia. Just promise not to give it up to peeps that are still trying.

lol... no you won't do that, you will just claim you pm'd me the solution...

But that's ok, I won't tell anyone...

 


 
 

Jantje_Smit » 27 Aug 2022, 6:02 am » wrote: ↑

27 Aug 2022, 6:02 am

lol... no you won't do that, you will just claim you pm'd me the solution...

But that's ok, I won't tell anyone...

 

ok bro, i'm sending it to you. Please don't ruin it for anyone who is still tryig. 

I sent you the answer in a pm, and it took 4 pm's to explain it due to the length. I told you, it's not easy. 

So, you know the answer now, but I doubt you will read it... :-)

Please don't be a whining malcontent... :-)
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUAYeN3Rp2E

The OP didn't specify whether the odd marble was actually lighter or heavier. 6x6 becomes 3x3, where the 3 left having the heavier or lighter in that group so when one is put on each side of the scale there are 4 possible outcomes.

the lighter or heavier is on the left side, right side, invert the two situation, or not been measured so the odd one is detected by compounding half total sum where 11 are same weight and the 12th one is lighter or heavier which doesn't matter since one was looking for the unequal marble.

Critical thinking has to have a universal constant point of balancing past, present, future only arriving forward here. Adapt or become extinct doesn't separate extreme differences of results, they simply cancel each other out in positives(same polarities repel, opposites attract.)

magnetism induces electromagnetism, 6 electrical currents separate7 bands of light waves, spontaneously existing simultaneously working creating atoms, molecular characteristics combinations of inorganic universal results eroding and ancestral results in atmospheres geographically displaced in cellular compounding details never the same again.

Just like living is doing here now for each ancestor in the food chain native to this atmosphere's periodic table.

kinetic self evident evolving as going on universally, galactically, solar system planetary, ancestrally here. inside out and outside in comparisons. Specific gravity of occupying time inhabiting space as oneself.

omh » 27 Aug 2022, 6:28 am » wrote: ↑

27 Aug 2022, 6:28 am

The OP didn't specify whether the odd marble was actually lighter or heavier. 6x6 becomes 3x3, where the 3 left having the heavier or lighter in that group so when one is put on each side of the scale there are 4 possible outcomes.

the lighter or heavier is on the left side, right side, invert the two situation, or not been measured so the odd one is detected by compounding half total sum where 11 are same weight and the 12th one is lighter or heavier which doesn't matter since one was looking for the unequal marble.

Critical thinking has to have a universal constant point of balancing past, present, future only arriving forward here. Adapt or become extinct doesn't separate extreme differences of results, they simply cancel each other out in positives(same polarities repel, opposites attract.)

magnetism induces electromagnetism, 6 electrical currents separate7 bands of light waves, spontaneously existing simultaneously working creating atoms, molecular characteristics combinations of inorganic universal results eroding and ancestral results in atmospheres geographically displaced in cellular compounding details never the same again.

Just like living is doing here now for each ancestor in the food chain native to this atmosphere's periodic table.

kinetic self evident evolving as going on universally, galactically, solar system planetary, ancestrally here. inside out and outside in comparisons. Specific gravity of occupying time inhabiting space as oneself.

No i didn't. That's part of the puzzle. Which one is different, and is it lighter, or heaver? 

omh, omg, i expected you to get this right off the bat. You're a genius!

This will help you think...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I57nIP0vc44