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Challenging Puzzles - Anyone Here Into This???
Challenging Puzzles - Anyone Here Into This???
By Skans
16 Jun 2022 10:28 am in The Water Cooler Chat Room
28 Aug 2022 10:12 am
In all my years of living, there are two very important things I want all youngsters to know...
One, don't get married on Valentine's Day. You will get divorced, and then that day will be **** up for the rest of your life in every subsequent relationship...
One, don't get married on Valentine's Day. You will get divorced, and then that day will be **** up for the rest of your life in every subsequent relationship...
28 Aug 2022 10:15 am
inaccurate. personally experienced otherwise.RunningWithScissors » 28 Aug 2022, 10:12 am » wrote: ↑ In all my years of living, there are two very important things I want all youngsters to know...
One, don't get married on Valentine's Day. You will get divorced, and then that day will be **** up for the rest of your life in every subsequent relationship...
28 Aug 2022 10:17 am
I mean, I spent around $70k on my wedding and honeymoon. Unless you're rich like Ben Affleck and can afford stuff like that every year, subsequent girlfriends/wives have to settle for some flowers and chocolate. It doesn't go over well with the new babes. So you're **** every Feb 14.... Big arguments....
28 Aug 2022 10:22 am
You got married where?!? You went where?!? And I get a box of stale chocolate and dying flowers?!?
That's how it goes... Jus sayin....
That's how it goes... Jus sayin....
28 Aug 2022 10:46 am
That's incorrect. Outcome #1 says that if it's Even then you have 3 marbles left, you don't know if it's heavier or lighter, and only have one more chance to weigh them. So you have to rely on luck that it is Odd to get to your solution. Remember, this has to work every time, in the same manner. No changes, and no luck involved.Cannonpointer » 28 Aug 2022, 9:53 am » wrote: ↑ So, your PM delivered ONE viable solution to the problem. If you work my solution, you will find that it works in every scenario. It all comes down to the second weighing, and bringing the suspect list down to no more than three. That is what my solution accomplishes in each of the three possible outcomes.
Second weighing:
Sequester 3 from side a. Move two from side b to side a, and place one control with the remaining 2 on side b. Weigh 3 against 3.
Outcomes:
1. Even: The 3 sequestered are the suspects
2. Odd: side a is now HEAVIER, rather than lighter. The two on side a which came over from side b are the suspects.
3. Odd: side a is STILL lighter. The original side a marble may be lighter, or one of the two original side b marbles is heavier: 3 SUSPECTS.
There are only three outcomes of my second weighing, same as yours - and in all three you are left with three suspect marbles, same as yours. The cuprit can be eliminated through a 1x1 and the lighter vs. heavier question is resolved in every case, same as yours.
So there are at least two solutions that work in 100% of scenarios.
28 Aug 2022 10:56 am
If they are even, and the three sequestered came from the lighter side, then lighter is already established, before you go 1x1. If the three sequestered came from the heavier side, then heavier is already established, before you go 1x1.RunningWithScissors » 28 Aug 2022, 10:46 am » wrote: ↑ That's incorrect. Outcome #1 says that if it's Even then you have 3 marbles left, you don't know if it's heavier or lighter, and only have one more chance to weigh them.
My solution is viable against your objection. If not, why not?
When you complain, your friends roll their eyes and your enemies smile
"Because I SAY I am" is fallacy, not science
You cannot betray me - only yourself, to me.
Who cuts off your dick is not your friend
An opinion you won't defend is not yours. It's someone else's
Humanity's Law of the Jungle: Survival NOT of the fittest, but of the tribe
When peeing in the pool, stand on the edge
If gender is not sex, why should a gender claim change what sex you shower with?
"Because I SAY I am" is fallacy, not science
You cannot betray me - only yourself, to me.
Who cuts off your dick is not your friend
An opinion you won't defend is not yours. It's someone else's
Humanity's Law of the Jungle: Survival NOT of the fittest, but of the tribe
When peeing in the pool, stand on the edge
If gender is not sex, why should a gender claim change what sex you shower with?
28 Aug 2022 10:59 am
I see how your logic works if the scales are tilted on the 1st weighing.
What if the 1st weighing is even? Now you have 2 more chances, and only moving 2 marbles from side b to side a will not resolve it every time. You need to move 3 marbles in order to only leave one control marble for the final step.
If you put yellow marbles on both sides on step 2, you're not resolving anything if the scale tilts, because you don't know if one of those 3 yellow marbles is heavier or lighter, and you're left with one more chance. You can't put the yellows on both sides. It has to be on one side, and therefore you have to put all 3 on one side.
28 Aug 2022 11:10 am
Okay, so we agree that if the scales are ODD, my solution works?RunningWithScissors » 28 Aug 2022, 10:59 am » wrote: ↑ I see how your logic works if the scales are tilted on the 1st weighing.
What if the 1st weighing is even? Now you have 2 more chances, and only moving 2 marbles from side b to side a will not resolve it every time. You need to move 3 marbles.
Let us regress, then, to the issue of having only 4 suspects going into weighing #2, instead of 8.
Place 2 suspects on side a and 1 on side b, with 1 control on side b.
3 possible outcomes:
1. Even. The sequestered marble is the suspect. Weigh it 1x1 against any of the 11 remaining controls to determine lighter or heavier. Solved.
2. Odd, side a heavier. Weigh the two suspects on side a 1x1 against each other. If they are even, the one on side b is the odd man, and lighter. If odd, the heavier is the culprit. Solved.
3. Odd, side a is lighter. Weigh the two suspects on side a 1x1 a against each other. If they are even, the one on side b is the odd man, and heavier. If odd, the lighter is the culprit. Solved.
In neither scenario do I require the second weighing to use 4x4. I would argue my solution is the more elegant: less moving pieces.
When you complain, your friends roll their eyes and your enemies smile
"Because I SAY I am" is fallacy, not science
You cannot betray me - only yourself, to me.
Who cuts off your dick is not your friend
An opinion you won't defend is not yours. It's someone else's
Humanity's Law of the Jungle: Survival NOT of the fittest, but of the tribe
When peeing in the pool, stand on the edge
If gender is not sex, why should a gender claim change what sex you shower with?
"Because I SAY I am" is fallacy, not science
You cannot betray me - only yourself, to me.
Who cuts off your dick is not your friend
An opinion you won't defend is not yours. It's someone else's
Humanity's Law of the Jungle: Survival NOT of the fittest, but of the tribe
When peeing in the pool, stand on the edge
If gender is not sex, why should a gender claim change what sex you shower with?
28 Aug 2022 11:13 am
If they are odd, you still have 3 suspects, with only one chance left. Because if it's odd, you still haven't determined if it's heavier or lighter, since you put yellow marbles on both sides.Cannonpointer » 28 Aug 2022, 11:10 am » wrote: ↑ Okay, so we agree that if the scales are ODD, my solution works?
Let us regress, then, to the issue of having only 4 suspects going into weighing #2, instead of 8.
Place 2 suspects on side a and 1 on side b, with 2 controls and 3 controls, respectively.
3 possible outcomes:
1. Even. The sequestered marble is the suspect. Weigh it 1x1 against any of the 11 remaining controls to determine lighter or heavier. Solved.
2. Odd, side a heavier. Weigh the two suspects on side a 1x1 against each other. If they are even, the one on side b is the odd man, and lighter. If odd, the heavier is the culprit. Solved.
3. Odd, side a is lighter. Weigh the two suspects on side 1x1 a against each other. If they are even, the one on side b is the odd man, and heavier. If odd, the lighter is the culprit. Solved.
28 Aug 2022 11:16 am
You would know that it is one of the 3, but you can't tell if it's heavier or lighter, to figure it out on the final weighing.
The ultimate solution is just to get a digital scale.... :-)
The ultimate solution is just to get a digital scale.... :-)
28 Aug 2022 11:21 am
If it is odd, then side a is either lighter or heavier. THERE ARE ONLY TWO SUSPECT MARBLES ON SIDE A.RunningWithScissors » 28 Aug 2022, 11:13 am » wrote: ↑ If they are odd, you still have 3 suspects, with only one chance left. Because if it's odd, you still haven't determined if it's heavier or lighter, since you put yellow marbles on both sides.
Weigh them against each other. If side a was lighter, and they are even, then the side b suspect marble is the culprit - and heavier. If they are odd, then the lighter one is the culprit.
If side a was heavier, the elimination works the same.
When you complain, your friends roll their eyes and your enemies smile
"Because I SAY I am" is fallacy, not science
You cannot betray me - only yourself, to me.
Who cuts off your dick is not your friend
An opinion you won't defend is not yours. It's someone else's
Humanity's Law of the Jungle: Survival NOT of the fittest, but of the tribe
When peeing in the pool, stand on the edge
If gender is not sex, why should a gender claim change what sex you shower with?
"Because I SAY I am" is fallacy, not science
You cannot betray me - only yourself, to me.
Who cuts off your dick is not your friend
An opinion you won't defend is not yours. It's someone else's
Humanity's Law of the Jungle: Survival NOT of the fittest, but of the tribe
When peeing in the pool, stand on the edge
If gender is not sex, why should a gender claim change what sex you shower with?
28 Aug 2022 11:24 am
RunningWithScissors » 28 Aug 2022, 11:16 am » wrote: ↑ You would know that it is one of the 3, but you can't tell if it's heavier or lighter, to figure it out on the final weighing.
The ultimate solution is just to get a digital scale.... :-)
No, the issue of lighter or heavier is determined in 100% of scenarios, using my solution. And my solution is more elegant for using fewer pieces in the final weighings: Only two marbles per side 1/3rd of the time and 3 per side 2/3rds of the time.
When you complain, your friends roll their eyes and your enemies smile
"Because I SAY I am" is fallacy, not science
You cannot betray me - only yourself, to me.
Who cuts off your dick is not your friend
An opinion you won't defend is not yours. It's someone else's
Humanity's Law of the Jungle: Survival NOT of the fittest, but of the tribe
When peeing in the pool, stand on the edge
If gender is not sex, why should a gender claim change what sex you shower with?
"Because I SAY I am" is fallacy, not science
You cannot betray me - only yourself, to me.
Who cuts off your dick is not your friend
An opinion you won't defend is not yours. It's someone else's
Humanity's Law of the Jungle: Survival NOT of the fittest, but of the tribe
When peeing in the pool, stand on the edge
If gender is not sex, why should a gender claim change what sex you shower with?
28 Aug 2022 11:29 am
Assume step 1 is even. that means one of your 4 yellow marbles is different.Cannonpointer » 28 Aug 2022, 11:21 am » wrote: ↑ If it is odd, then side a is either lighter or heavier. THERE ARE ONLY TWO SUSPECT MARBLES ON SIDE A.
Weigh them against each other. If side a was lighter, and they are even, then the side b suspect marble is the culprit - and heavier. If they are odd, then the lighter one is the culprit.
If side a was heavier, the elimination works the same.
If you put yellow marbles on both sides, 2 on the left, 1 on the right, and move the blue marbles accordingly so that there's 4 per side... If you get an unbalanced result, you know it's one of the 3 yellow marbles. But you don't know if it's heavier or lighter yet. You just know one of the three is the culprit. The yellow one on the right may be heavier, or one of the 2 yellows on the left may be lighter. We can't tell. And now you only have one chance left.
That's why you can't put yellow marbles on both sides, because it won't resolve the weight issue.
28 Aug 2022 11:37 am
Yes. 4 suspects, 8 controls.RunningWithScissors » 28 Aug 2022, 11:29 am » wrote: ↑ Assume step 1 is even. that means one of your 4 yellow marbles is different.
Correct. We do not yet know lighter or heavier. We get that information in the 1x1, thus:RunningWithScissors » 28 Aug 2022, 11:29 am » wrote: ↑If you put yellow marbles on both sides, 2 on the left, 1 on the right, and move the blue marbles accordingly so that there's 4 per side... If you get an unbalanced result, you know it's one of the 3 yellow marbles. But you don't know if it's heavier or lighter yet. You just know one of the three is the culprit. And now you only have one chance left.
We have two suspects on one side - let us say the light side. One suspect is on the heavy side.
Solution: Weigh the two on the light side against each other. If they are odd, the light one is the culprit, perforce, for there can ONLY BE one culprit, and the culprit came from the LIGHT side.
If they are even, then the one on the heavy side is the culprit, for there is only one culprit, and by process of elimination it is the one on side b.
As to controls, I have reduced the use of controls to only one marble in this scenario - one on side b, none on side a.
When you complain, your friends roll their eyes and your enemies smile
"Because I SAY I am" is fallacy, not science
You cannot betray me - only yourself, to me.
Who cuts off your dick is not your friend
An opinion you won't defend is not yours. It's someone else's
Humanity's Law of the Jungle: Survival NOT of the fittest, but of the tribe
When peeing in the pool, stand on the edge
If gender is not sex, why should a gender claim change what sex you shower with?
"Because I SAY I am" is fallacy, not science
You cannot betray me - only yourself, to me.
Who cuts off your dick is not your friend
An opinion you won't defend is not yours. It's someone else's
Humanity's Law of the Jungle: Survival NOT of the fittest, but of the tribe
When peeing in the pool, stand on the edge
If gender is not sex, why should a gender claim change what sex you shower with?
28 Aug 2022 11:42 am
At that point you have 3 yellow marbles, one of which is different, and you don't know if it's heavier or lighter. How do you resolve that with just one more weighing?
If you weigh 1x1, and they're different, how do you know if it's heavier or lighter?
If you weigh 1x1, and they're the same, how do you know if the 3rd one is heavier or lighter?
If you weigh 1x1, and they're different, how do you know if it's heavier or lighter?
If you weigh 1x1, and they're the same, how do you know if the 3rd one is heavier or lighter?
28 Aug 2022 11:43 am
@RunningWithScissors remember:
If weighing number one is even, the problem becomes LESS complex, not more complex. You only have FOUR suspects at weighing number two, instead of EIGHT. That's why I left it out - I had already solved for that eventuality in my earlier attempts. The above is merely a refined recap, using fewer marbles for elegance.
If weighing number one is even, the problem becomes LESS complex, not more complex. You only have FOUR suspects at weighing number two, instead of EIGHT. That's why I left it out - I had already solved for that eventuality in my earlier attempts. The above is merely a refined recap, using fewer marbles for elegance.
When you complain, your friends roll their eyes and your enemies smile
"Because I SAY I am" is fallacy, not science
You cannot betray me - only yourself, to me.
Who cuts off your dick is not your friend
An opinion you won't defend is not yours. It's someone else's
Humanity's Law of the Jungle: Survival NOT of the fittest, but of the tribe
When peeing in the pool, stand on the edge
If gender is not sex, why should a gender claim change what sex you shower with?
"Because I SAY I am" is fallacy, not science
You cannot betray me - only yourself, to me.
Who cuts off your dick is not your friend
An opinion you won't defend is not yours. It's someone else's
Humanity's Law of the Jungle: Survival NOT of the fittest, but of the tribe
When peeing in the pool, stand on the edge
If gender is not sex, why should a gender claim change what sex you shower with?
28 Aug 2022 11:43 am
28 Aug 2022 11:44 am
Yes, let's assume the 1st weighing was even. Based on your color scheme, which is brilliant btw... you have 4 yellow marbles, and one of them is the dirty one.
28 Aug 2022 11:46 am
You have 2 chances left. If you put yellow marbles on both sides, then you don't determine weight, bc you don't know if it's heavier or lighter. It can be either. That's why you have to put them on the same side, bc that will determine weight.
28 Aug 2022 11:46 am
Yes, but 2 are on the light side and one is on the heavy side (or the reverse, as the case may be). So the side the culprit is on answers to heavier or lighter.RunningWithScissors » 28 Aug 2022, 11:42 am » wrote: ↑ At that point you have 3 yellow marbles, one of which is different, and you don't know if it's heavier or lighter. How do you resolve that with just one more weighing?
If the two came from the lighter side, the lighter is the culprit. If the two were on the heavier side, the heavier is the culprit.RunningWithScissors » 28 Aug 2022, 11:42 am » wrote: ↑ If you weigh 1x1, and they're different, how do you know if it's heavier or lighter?
Whichever side of the scale it was on - heavier or lighter - determines that.RunningWithScissors » 28 Aug 2022, 11:42 am » wrote: ↑ If you weigh 1x1, and they're the same, how do you know if the 3rd one is heavier or lighter?
When you complain, your friends roll their eyes and your enemies smile
"Because I SAY I am" is fallacy, not science
You cannot betray me - only yourself, to me.
Who cuts off your dick is not your friend
An opinion you won't defend is not yours. It's someone else's
Humanity's Law of the Jungle: Survival NOT of the fittest, but of the tribe
When peeing in the pool, stand on the edge
If gender is not sex, why should a gender claim change what sex you shower with?
"Because I SAY I am" is fallacy, not science
You cannot betray me - only yourself, to me.
Who cuts off your dick is not your friend
An opinion you won't defend is not yours. It's someone else's
Humanity's Law of the Jungle: Survival NOT of the fittest, but of the tribe
When peeing in the pool, stand on the edge
If gender is not sex, why should a gender claim change what sex you shower with?
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