Liberal Forum

Either all 4 left over are the same and the scale tilted (notice the way it tilted), or one of 4 left over them is different, and the other 8 are the same and the scale is equal. Now you have something to work with on your next weighing. And like I said it will be 3x3. But you have to do it smartly, using what you learned and observed from step 1.
 
 

Cannonpointer » 07 Aug 2022, 12:17 pm » wrote: ↑

07 Aug 2022, 12:17 pm

Easy one. 6&6, 3&3, then 1&1.

the missing thing I didn't include with previous discussions of this post is the 4th decision on the 3 move.

Second move putting 3 on each side leaves 3 options on the third move.

1. when scale is balanced using two of the last three, the one in the hand is the odd result from the other 11.
2. left or right will be the odd one of the 11 depending upon looking for lightest.
3. looking for the heaviest.

again, the op was making up an issue that divides everyone participating in what if scenario, like how does living happen when everyone agrees to never agree now cannot be the point of eternally separated ancestors making up the history of genetic outcomes only balancing forward here.

Every reality defends denying now isn't eternity and always has been.

The evolutionary missing link was created by intellectual choices ignoring why and how each displacement is what, where, when, which, who each one is now.

Lived vs devil of a time management.

omh » 18 Aug 2022, 5:17 am » wrote: ↑

18 Aug 2022, 5:17 am

the missing thing I didn't include with previous discussions of this post is the 4th decision on the 3 move.

Second move putting 3 on each side leaves 3 options on the third move.

1. when scale is balanced using two of the last three, the one in the hand is the odd result from the other 11.
2. left or right will be the odd one of the 11 depending upon looking for lightest.
3. looking for the heaviest.

again, the op was making up an issue that divides everyone participating in what if scenario, like how does living happen when everyone agrees to never agree now cannot be the point of eternally separated ancestors making up the history of genetic outcomes only balancing forward here.

Every reality defends denying now isn't eternity and always has been.

The evolutionary missing link was created by intellectual choices ignoring why and how each displacement is what, where, when, which, who each one is now.

Lived vs devil of a time management.

I was waiting for you OMH! You should get this. But it starts with 4x4. The 2nd turn is 3x3. The last turn is 1x1. Everybody has been told this now. But it's how you do it. The 2nd turn is the hardest. 

Remember, we're trying to figure out which marble is different, and whether it is heavier or lighter than the others. This works every time using the same technique. No getting lucky. 

RunningWithScissors » 18 Aug 2022, 5:20 am » wrote: ↑

18 Aug 2022, 5:20 am

I was waiting for you OMH! You should get this. But it starts with 4x4. The 2nd turn is 3x3. The last turn is 1x1. Everybody has been told this now. But it's how you do it. The 2nd turn is the hardest. 

Remember, we're trying to figure out which marble is different, and whether it is heavier or lighter than the others. This works every time using the same technique. No getting lucky. 

ssdd. more than one way to get at same result. Everything balances out forward from here, but limited to mutually evolving forward as eternally changing details now there are things not possible within reality's promises of better days ahead when life never exceeds mutually evolving here now.

Ever hear the old saying about, "Regardless how things change, life operates the same way all the time.".

7 degrees of specific displacement of things evolving as mutually occupying space now as combined total sums never stay same form shaped by how, why, what, where, when, which whom was here arrived a great great grandchild that did or didn't become 1 of 8 great grandparents, 1 of 4 grandparents, 1 of 2 parenting another generation of arriving great great grandchildren already added to the atmosphere until never again another generation is left never same ancestry forward now.

Kinetic genetics, thermodynamics, specific details eroding or decomposing as specifically here in a perpetual balancing universal situation for each detail evolving forward now occupying space here.

Again kinetics, not potential outcomes measured to longitude and latitude, attitude and platitude, generation gap arrived and descendants left behind after dead if any at all.

I just rethought this. I told you, it's really, really hard!

2nd weighing is 4x4 as well!

!st weighing is 4x4
2nd weighing is 4x4
3rd weighing is 1x1

This is now 100% absolutely correct!

RunningWithScissors » 18 Aug 2022, 5:39 am » wrote: ↑

18 Aug 2022, 5:39 am

I just rethought this. I told you, it's really, really hard!

2nd weighing is 4x4 as well!

!st weighing is 4x4
2nd weighing is 4x4
3rd weighing is 1x1

This is now 100% absolutely correct!

so was the other method when being played in social arena of ideas demanding everyone mind intellect over instinct regulations or else society takes back better tomorrows earned from yesterdays combined into events arranged today since dawn of civilization within this species used against ancestors in this species.

Self fulfilling prophecies are managed by context over evolving content never same total sum twice occupying space here in plain sight.

I solved the missing link scenario of no win situations governed by win win scenarios allowing a specific few to manage everyone else globally here as equally reproductively present.

RunningWithScissors » 18 Aug 2022, 5:10 am » wrote: ↑

18 Aug 2022, 5:10 am

If you weigh 4 marbles vs 4 marbles, regardless of what happens, the result will be 4 marbles left over that you now have information on. You have to use that info to your benefit in the next 2 weighing's.

Ok, just one more since it seems I have some time while irksome shonda is looking for her pills...

If the scales don't balance all you have is 4 marbles that you know are the normal weight... and 8 that you don't know, so if the next one is 3x3 that leaves you with 2 you aren't sure off... you can firgure out which one it is but you can't tell if it's lighter or heavier...

 
 

RunningWithScissors » 18 Aug 2022, 5:02 am » wrote: ↑

18 Aug 2022, 5:02 am

Sorry, that is incorrect. I have already revealed that you start with 4x4, and then 3x3, and then 1x1. 

The hard part is creating a control group, and moving marbles around to create new control groups as you go.

That does not explain why my solution does not work.  I checked it again, and I'm fairly certain it is a good solution.
 

RunningWithScissors » 05 Aug 2022, 1:33 am » wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022, 1:33 am

OK, who's smart?!?
 
Here's the opening rules.

You have 12 marbles...

1. 4x4. They are even. All 8 are now control. Remove two marbles from one control and one marble from another. Replace them from the 4 you left out (our suspects).
2a. 4x4. They are even. All 11 are now control. 
3a. The last one which was never weighed is the culprit. Go 1x1 against any control marble and you know whether it is lighter or heavier. 
or...
2b. 4x4. They are odd. Either the side with the two suspect marbles are heavier, or they are lighter.
3b. 1x1. Weigh the 2 against each other. If they are even, the single is the culprit, and whether it was heavier or lighter is known from turn 2b. If they are odd, turn 2b tells you whether the lighter or the heavier is the culprit. 

Unless I am off in my logic, the above steps manage every possibility in the case that the initial 4x4 is evenly weighted. The odds of that happening are one in three - so one in three times, the above steps will always answer both questions put by the riddle. Below, I will deal with the initial 4x4 being odd - which should occur two times out of three.

1. 4x4. They are odd. The remaining 4 are now control. Sequester 1 of the heavier marbles and 2 of the lighter marbles, replacing them from the control group. 
2a. 4x4. They are even. Put the two sequestered lighter marbles against each other. 
3a. 1x1.If they are even, the heavier sequestered marble is the culprit. If they are odd, the lighter of the two is the culprit.
or...
2b. 4x4. They are odd.

****. Now I'm ****. 

I'm going to sleep on this - I don't have 7 hours in yet... I've solved it only bout hlf the time - and that, only if my cackle-eight-shuns are correct. But half of the time, I appear screwt. 

 
 

Cannonpointer » 19 Aug 2022, 8:11 pm » wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2022, 8:11 pm

1. 4x4. They are even. All 8 are now control. Remove two marbles from one control and one marble from another. Replace them from the 4 you left out (our suspects).
2a. 4x4. They are even. All 11 are now control. 
3a. The last one which was never weighed is the culprit. Go 1x1 against any control marble and you know whether it is lighter or heavier. 
or...
2b. 4x4. They are odd. Either the side with the two suspect marbles are heavier, or they are lighter.
3b. 1x1. Weigh the 2 against each other. If they are even, the single is the culprit, and whether it was heavier or lighter is known from turn 2b. If they are odd, turn 2b tells you whether the lighter or the heavier is the culprit. 

Unless I am off in my logic, the above steps manage every possibility in the case that the initial 4x4 is evenly weighted. The odds of that happening are one in three - so one in three times, the above steps will always answer both questions put by the riddle. Below, I will deal with the initial 4x4 being odd - which should occur two times out of three.

1. 4x4. They are odd. The remaining 4 are now control. Sequester 1 of the heavier marbles and 2 of the lighter marbles, replacing them from the control group. 
2a. 4x4. They are even. Put the two sequestered lighter marbles against each other. 
3a. 1x1.If they are even, the heavier sequestered marble is the culprit. If they are odd, the lighter of the two is the culprit.
or...
2b. 4x4. They are odd.

****. Now I'm ****. 

I'm going to sleep on this - I don't have 7 hours in yet... I've solved it only bout hlf the time - and that, only if my cackle-eight-shuns are correct. But half of the time, I appear screwt.

You are doing it so good! You're so close! 

I have it all typed out and ready to go. But the 2nd step is the hardest. You need to move marbles around... Same on the 3rd. 

RunningWithScissors » 19 Aug 2022, 11:40 pm » wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2022, 11:40 pm

You are doing it so good! You're so close! 

I have it all typed out and ready to go. But the 2nd step is the hardest. You need to move marbles around... Same on the 3rd.

 I gave a hint before when I mistakenly said the 2nd step is 3x3. That was wrong, it's still 4x4, but you are going to move 3 marbles around based on your set in your hand. 

Jantje_Smit » 18 Aug 2022, 7:00 am » wrote: ↑

18 Aug 2022, 7:00 am

Ok, just one more since it seems I have some time while irksome shonda is looking for her pills...

If the scales don't balance all you have is 4 marbles that you know are the normal weight... and 8 that you don't know, so if the next one is 3x3 that leaves you with 2 you aren't sure off... you can firgure out which one it is but you can't tell if it's lighter or heavier...

yeah, no, stick to puddles... :-)
 

Jantje_Smit » 06 Aug 2022, 3:29 am » wrote: ↑

06 Aug 2022, 3:29 am

I thought about it some more and since it makes my head hurt I came up with another logical solution... it can't be done without knowing if that one marble is heavier or lighter...you put that in just to mess with peoples heads... but of course you would never do such a thing... right... lol...

I might be wrong... in that case I would love to hear the solution... but I'm not going to break my head over it, that doesn't go well if I smoke some herbs... and I really need some now...

 

RunningWithScissors » 06 Aug 2022, 3:43 am » wrote: ↑

06 Aug 2022, 3:43 am

I'll give you folks a week to think about it.... that seems fair.

And if nobody can figure it out, then I'll splain...

RunningWithScissors » 26 Aug 2022, 1:06 am » wrote: ↑

26 Aug 2022, 1:06 am

If Cannon says give it up, I'll do it. Because he's the closest, and this is getting boring.

So @Cannonpointer , can you please tell this nut you give up so we can get this over with....

 


 


 
 

Eternal conundrum for each individual that ever existed or existing forward here now, I solved and everyone protecting reasonable doubt won't accept the actual way living occurs here now.

I am an innocent man not denying how life actually works in plain sight..

Jantje_Smit » 26 Aug 2022, 3:07 am » wrote: ↑

26 Aug 2022, 3:07 am

So @Cannonpointer , can you please tell this nut you give up so we can get this over with....

Lol give me a day or two - I got tied up nd this fell out of my head.

I detest surrendering.
 

Cannonpointer » 26 Aug 2022, 10:28 am » wrote: ↑

26 Aug 2022, 10:28 am

Lol give me a day or two - I got tied up nd this fell out of my head.

I detest surrendering. :)
 

Compromising isn't surrendering, it is just not giving away biological time mutually evolving here as one of a kind. Bidening one's time in every reality being part of absolute power of suggestion got corrupted absolutely in every reality.

Okay, I'm back. I have solved for the initial 8 being control, and I have solved for the sequestered 4 being control, but only when sequestering 2 from a and 1 from b and getting an even weight. An odd weight defeated me. 

An odd weight left us with 5 suspects in 2 groups of 4 - a and b, light and heavy, respectively. Two are in one group, and three are in the other. We have identified neither the suspect nor the weight problem, and we have only one weighing left. 

I need an applied math course - I should be able to set this up. I don't now whether I need to back out of my second solution (Replacing 2&1 of the suspects from the control group of four), or think harder about the present problem in the event of an unequal weighing (Leaving us with 3 suspects on one side and 2 on the other - and 9 control marbles identified). Hmmm...

Musing...

I simply cannot see any way to work out the 3v2 dead end in a single weighing... so I would have to go back and try something OTHER than replacing 1 from a and 2 from b...

That is another dead end, for me. I am going to don my softest leather loafers - **** that, my cloth slippers - and prepare to kick my own ***. @RunningWithScissors, @Jantje_Smit, I surrender.

 
 

Cannonpointer » 26 Aug 2022, 4:12 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Aug 2022, 4:12 pm

Okay, I'm back. I have solved for the initial 8 being control, and I have solved for the sequestered 4 being control, but only when sequestering 2 from a and 1 from b and getting an even weight. An odd weight defeated me. 

An odd weight left us with 5 suspects in 2 groups of 4 - a and b, light and heavy, respectively. Two are in one group, and three are in the other. We have identified neither the suspect nor the weight problem, and we have only one weighing left. 

I need an applied math course - I should be able to set this up. I don't now whether I need to back out of my second solution (Replacing 2&1 of the suspects from the control group of four), or think harder about the present problem in the event of an unequal weighing (Leaving us with 3 suspects on one side and 2 on the other - and 9 control marbles identified). Hmmm...

Musing...

I simply cannot see any way to work out the 3v2 dead end in a single weighing... so I would have to go back and try something OTHER than replacing 1 from a and 2 from b...

That is another dead end, for me. I am going to don my softest leather loafers - **** that, my cloth slippers - and prepare to kick my own ***. @RunningWithScissors, @Jantje_Smit, I surrender.

I am with you for the first step.
4x4 gets you a control group (or two if they balance).
The remaining odd four are easy to sort in two weighings.

If the first 4x4 do not balance, isn't this where the "solution" and actually the problem really is?

How do you find 1 odd ball out of 8 in just two weighings?
 

DeezerShoove » 26 Aug 2022, 7:46 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Aug 2022, 7:46 pm

I am with you for the first step.
4x4 gets you a control group (or two if they balance).
The remaining odd four are easy to sort in two weighings.

If the first 4x4 do not balance, isn't this where the "solution" and actually the problem really is?

How do you find 1 odd ball out of 8 in just two weighings?

Exactly.

I have solved it in just two weighings under that condition, but only when replacing 2 marbles from side a and one from side b with control marbles results in an even weighing. I can work it in a single weighing from there. But that is only going to happen 3/8ths of the time. And you will get an even weighing on the original 4x4 only 1/3rd of the time. So it's just over a 70% solution under my scheme. 

But if the second weighing is still not even, I cannot work it in a single weighing from there. I need two. So I am either incorrect in my second step, or unable to figure out my last step properly in the event of an odd weighing. 

If the second weighing is still odd, that means I have 5 suspect marbles - 3 on one side and two on another. If there's a way to find the suspect in a single move, it sure as hell isn't one I can find. Which makes me think my second step is a half measure in the first place. 

 

Cannonpointer » 26 Aug 2022, 10:28 am » wrote: ↑

26 Aug 2022, 10:28 am

Lol give me a day or two - I got tied up nd this fell out of my head.

I detest surrendering.

lol, that's cool! You're so close!