Liberal Forum

Cannonpointer » 31 Aug 2023, 3:28 pm » wrote: ↑

31 Aug 2023, 3:28 pm

Okay. But that does not make the experimental nature of the vax a "conspiracy."

It's just a fact - ignored at the experimenters' hazard.

Not disputing anything you said. I'm just not going to change the fact that I went along to get along because it ALL seemed way over-the-top hysteria to me. Good information was not to be found easily because there really wasn't much of it. AT THAT TIME. Just hand-wringers from both sides.
That has been my consistent view from the start.

As new (or better) information surfaces, I will not fall into the trap of forgetting what we had just lived through:
A dearth of common sense.

There seems to be a continuing problem with that though.
Selective amnesia can be a problem for some, as well.

btw
I'm still healthy as a horse.  

DeezerShoove » 31 Aug 2023, 3:38 pm » wrote: ↑

31 Aug 2023, 3:38 pm

Not disputing anything you said. I'm just not going to change the fact that I went along to get along because it ALL seemed way over-the-top hysteria to me. Good information was not to be found easily because there really wasn't much of it. AT THAT TIME. Just hand-wringers from both sides.
That has been my consistent view from the start.

As new (or better) information surfaces, I will not fall into the trap of forgetting what we had just lived through:
A dearth of common sense.

There seems to be a continuing problem with that though.
Selective amnesia can be a problem for some, as well.

btw
I'm still healthy as a horse.

Trust and believe I have not forgotten a **** thing. They tried to experiment on me. They threatened my ability to work and purchase in the public market place. They curtailed my ability to travel freely. They forced me to wear a mask in public, which was against the peer reviewed science to which we ALL have access if we choose. 

The numbers have not changed. 71% of all drugs approved this century were subsequently removed or black boxed due to unforeseen dangers/ineffectiveness. I readily acknowledge that the amount of due diligence required by the individual, in the face of a propaganda onslaught, was above the abilities of the average person. I simply take issue with calling those who predicted this BASED ON THE INFORMATION WIDELY AVAILABLE "conspiracy theorists." We were not - ever - conspiracy theorists. Those bucking the odds and lying were.

The odds against the clot shot were 71% plus x, with x representing the difference between a properly vetted patent medicine and a warp-speed mass-produced one. Basing one's arguments on those numbers is precisely the opposite of a conspiracy theory. 
 

Cannonpointer » 31 Aug 2023, 3:46 pm » wrote: ↑

31 Aug 2023, 3:46 pm

Trust and believe I have not forgotten a **** thing. They tried to experiment on me. They threatened my ability to work and purchase in the public market place. They curtailed my ability to travel freely. They forced me to wear a mask in public, which was against the peer reviewed science to which we ALL have access if we choose. 

The numbers have not changed. 71% of all drugs approved this century were subsequently removed or black boxed due to unforeseen dangers/ineffectiveness. I readily acknowledge that the amount of due diligence required by the individual, in the face of a propaganda onslaught, was above the abilities of the average person. I simply take issue with calling those who predicted this BASED ON THE INFORMATION WIDELY AVAILABLE "conspiracy theorists." We were not - ever - conspiracy theorists. Those bucking the odds and lying were.

The odds against the clot shot were 71% plus x, with x representing the difference between a properly vetted patent medicine and a warp-speed mass-produced one. Basing one's arguments on those numbers is precisely the opposite of a conspiracy theory.

That is a much more popular opinion (more widely held) now than 2+ years ago, is it not?
I'm merely remembering my people were pressured relentlessly. I could not have given a **** less.

It all seemed stupid and **** up.
Frothing screamers on both sides didn't "sell" either packet of goods very well to me.
...and they did exist on both sides.

DeezerShoove » 31 Aug 2023, 3:54 pm » wrote: ↑

31 Aug 2023, 3:54 pm

That is a much more popular opinion (more widely held) now than 2+ years ago, is it not?
I'm merely remembering my people were pressured relentlessly. I could not have given a **** less.

It all seemed stupid and **** up.
Frothing screamers on both sides didn't "sell" either packet of goods very well to me.
...and they did exist on both sides.

They did for a fact - and as you have observed, they created a chaotic intellectual environment which made the decision a dice roll either way. One would naturally reach a state of defeated apathy, relying on those vying choruses.

But the math also existed. The reasoned arguments also existed. The peer reviewed science which proved Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine effective against the virus also existed. Whatever the partisan screeching, it is incorrect to declare science- and math-based, reasoned arguments conspiracy theories. 

I was arguing from science and math from the outset. 

There was also the fact that the pro clot shot side was caught in an endless string of lies and was relying on the yellowest of yellow journalism. 
 

Cannonpointer » 31 Aug 2023, 3:25 pm » wrote: ↑

31 Aug 2023, 3:25 pm

We were not arguing what kind of lifestyle was superior - we were arguing whether reducing variation within the species diminishes the species. The "science" considers your position full of poop. 

"No" is a proclamation. That's YOUR territory. You've proclaimed without evidence - AGAINST evidence - that the world would be better with less people. 

What I have done is make reasoned arguments based on science. And you've responded "No," and followed it with your original proclamation. 
 
I have backed my arguments - you haven't. Only one of us is relying on proclamations.

You have backed your arguments with proclamations.
Our species is going to gradually "homogenize"  regardless of whether the worlds population increases or decreases. Regardless of deliberate social engineering via mass media and the encouragement of [illegal] immigration.
The net difference in IQ and physical ability across the species as a whole doesn't change due to just that..but what it will do is flatten the Bell Curve.
We should end up with fewer idiots per capita but at the cost of fewer geniuses per capita.






 

Cannonpointer » 31 Aug 2023, 4:01 pm » wrote: ↑

31 Aug 2023, 4:01 pm

They did for a fact - and as you have observed, they created a chaotic intellectual environment which made the decision a dice roll either way. One would naturally reach a state of defeated apathy, relying on those vying choruses.

But the math also existed. The reasoned arguments also existed. The peer reviewed science which proved Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine effective against the virus also existed. Whatever the partisan screeching, it is incorrect to declare science- and math-based, reasoned arguments conspiracy theories. 

I was arguing from science and math from the outset. 

There was also the fact that the pro clot shot side was caught in an endless string of lies and was relying on the yellowest of yellow journalism.

Yup, I agree with you. You do get that, I hope.
The confusing din was overwhelming to many.
I was one of the assholes who was told to wear a mask... Many times.
Didn't see the usefulness of that **** then and I confess I'm even stupider about it now.

I live in a liberal state but not many came up to me, citizen-to-citizen, to say **** to my face.
That "Punch" dickhead said people better wear a mask or get bloodied by him.
Two years and I never met "that guy".  

**** masks, **** him, **** screamers. 

btw
That "math" is accumulative.
What we accrued in 3 years cannot be used against decisions made 3 years ago.
You keep trying to miss that basis of my view. We both reacted to situations right in front of us.
If you're trolling for a pat on the back from me, I want one too.  
 
 

https://twitter.com/VigilantFox/status/ ... 3015575636

GHETTOBLASTER » 31 Aug 2023, 4:12 pm » wrote: ↑

31 Aug 2023, 4:12 pm

You have backed your arguments with proclamations.
Our species is going to gradually "homogenize"  regardless of whether the worlds population increases or decreases. Regardless of deliberate social engineering via mass media and the encouragement of [illegal] immigration.
The net difference in IQ and physical ability across the species as a whole doesn't change due to just that..but what it will do is flatten the Bell Curve.
We should end up with fewer idiots per capita but at the cost of fewer geniuses per capita.

Those are ALL proclamations. I made arguments backed with science. 

You couldn't touch it, so you started proclaiming and accusing me of what you are doing. 

You need to back away from leftist narratives - they have you adopting the same methods.
 

DeezerShoove » 31 Aug 2023, 4:44 pm » wrote: ↑

31 Aug 2023, 4:44 pm

Yup, I agree with you. You do get that, I hope.
The confusing din was overwhelming to many.
I was one of the assholes who was told to wear a mask... Many times.
Didn't see the usefulness of that **** then and I confess I'm even stupider about it now.

I live in a liberal state but not many came up to me, citizen-to-citizen, to say **** to my face.
That "Punch" dickhead said people better wear a mask or get bloodied by him.
Two years and I never met "that guy".  

**** masks, **** him, **** screamers. 

btw
That "math" is accumulative.
What we accrued in 3 years cannot be used against decisions made 3 years ago.
You keep trying to miss that basis of my view. We both reacted to situations right in front of us.
If you're trolling for a pat on the back from me, I want one too.

You might need one - that clot shot can make ya need the hindlick maneuver.
 

GHETTOBLASTER » 31 Aug 2023, 4:12 pm » wrote: ↑

31 Aug 2023, 4:12 pm

You have backed your arguments with proclamations.
Our species is going to gradually "homogenize"  regardless of whether the worlds population increases or decreases. Regardless of deliberate social engineering via mass media and the encouragement of [illegal] immigration.
The net difference in IQ and physical ability across the species as a whole doesn't change due to just that..but what it will do is flatten the Bell Curve.
We should end up with fewer idiots per capita but at the cost of fewer geniuses per capita.

Another thing I would point out to you, impervious as you seem to reasoned, science-based arguments to which you have no rebuttal, is that your bedfellows on this particular issue are people like Bill Gates and other members of "the good club." That really ought to alarm you. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/ ... nthropists
 

Love him or hate him...Trump will do what he says he'll do...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1MVBB3EuV4
 

roadkill » 31 Aug 2023, 7:32 pm » wrote: ↑

31 Aug 2023, 7:32 pm

Love him or hate him...Trump will do what he says he'll do...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1MVBB3EuV4

He is finally turning against the clot shot he foisted on us. 

I guess that finger to the wind ISN'T tone deaf, after all...
 

Cannonpointer » 31 Aug 2023, 6:25 pm » wrote: ↑

31 Aug 2023, 6:25 pm

Cannonpointer » 31 Aug 2023, 6:25 pm » wrote: ↑

31 Aug 2023, 6:25 pm

Another thing I would point out to you, impervious as you seem to reasoned, science-based arguments to which you have no rebuttal, is that your bedfellows on this particular issue are people like Bill Gates and other members of "the good club." That really ought to alarm you. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/ ... nthropists

Ask any of the people who have so far been manipulated by the "population control social engineering"...if they think their lives were ruined by it or if it caused them to suffer any more than any other generation had to suffer. 
Most people would have no idea what you are talking about.
Some would be aware of a downward trend with far fewer huge familes to be found.

My argument is not with them.

I won't be doing any surveys. I will continue to stand for humanity - not against it.

Cannonpointer » 31 Aug 2023, 6:25 pm » wrote: ↑

31 Aug 2023, 6:25 pm

We are growing at a rate of 1 birth every 8 seconds to 1 death every 11 seconds but illegal immigration is adding 1 extra person every 32 seconds.
The overall rate of  gain is 240 people per hour....or 2.1MM per year. 
Divided by 335,000,000 and the rate is "point 6 percent" per annum..which means we are currently growing at half the rate of the Baby Boom.
I think the social engineering measures we've noted will take more time to gain traction.
Hopefully once the [[[SOCIAL ENGINEERS]]] can see evidence of a gradual glide path downward they won't get impatient and put us through any financial disasters ...super pandemics...world wars, etc.

But to hear you argue, it would be just fine if they did. Ya want that larger lot, doncha?

 

Cannonpointer » 31 Aug 2023, 6:05 pm » wrote: ↑

31 Aug 2023, 6:05 pm

You might need one - that clot shot can make ya need the hindlick maneuver.

I got a girl that does that for me.

Really sultry setting, very dark room, etc.
She always brings her goat, Sylvia, for some reason.

roadkill » 31 Aug 2023, 7:32 pm » wrote: ↑

31 Aug 2023, 7:32 pm

Love him or hate him...Trump will do what he says he'll do...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1MVBB3EuV4

Y'know, we gave him four years and we gave steve bannon money for free, and trump STILL never built that wall. And as far as the vax goes, there's a thousand central players that could have been acd out with no effect. Even pfizer could have been told to pound sand, leaving the field open for its competitors. But the ONE mother **** that HAD to be there for the vax to happen was trump.

I don't trust that cock sucker around the vax one iota.

Cannonpointer » 31 Aug 2023, 3:05 pm » wrote: ↑

31 Aug 2023, 3:05 pm

The fact that it was experimental was not a conspiracy. Google it. Or just reason it out. 
 

Conspiracy is passed tense to ongoing conspiring still in effect. Rule of law carries it over every generation change to current population people of character govern ancestral replacements in plain sight.

Bet you didn't see this coming. Also bet this post doesn't stay in NHB long.

Cannonpointer » 31 Aug 2023, 3:25 pm » wrote: ↑

31 Aug 2023, 3:25 pm

We were not arguing what kind of lifestyle was superior - we were arguing whether reducing variation within the species diminishes the species. The "science" considers your position full of poop. 

"No" is a proclamation. That's YOUR territory. You've proclaimed without evidence - AGAINST evidence - that the world would be better with less people. 

What I have done is make reasoned arguments based on science. And you've responded "No," and followed it with your original proclamation. 
 
I have backed my arguments - you haven't. Only one of us is relying on proclamations.

My "science" is based on common sense and a little arithmetic.
With half the people competing for all the homes that are already built a huge amount of Apertment Dwellers and people who rent homes will be able to become HOME OWNERS thanks to a massive housing glut.
Millions of houses will need to be torn down and the land absorbed by neighboring property owners.
With a population that is held in check [thanks to sociological conditions that make people shy away from parenthood] there will be no need to expand into parts of the USA that have already proven to be less than desirable places to live.
At 335MM Americans and counting it is safe to say that all the best places to live have already been taken.
At the end of a 40 year career of commuting 100 miles per day from the suburbs into every major West Coast City....that works out to 3 hours per day X 200 working days per year...which is 600 hours per year.....X 40 years which equals  24,000 hours...or in other words 2.73 years out of my life were spent commuting. Now multiply my fairly common experience X millions of Commuters just like me. 
What a terrible waste of our most valuable resource..which is time.
With 1/2 the population I should expect to only throw away a year or so of my life to commuting the same distance instead of almost 3 years.

 

Cannonpointer » 30 Aug 2023, 4:07 pm » wrote: ↑

30 Aug 2023, 4:07 pm

Mine are peer reviewed from insurance commissioners, among other things. Here's one from JAMA showing CHILDREN'S mortality increasing (they are the LEAST hard hit).

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/a ... ct/2802602

Here's the insurance industry saying it's a 40% increase: https://firstfactcheck.substack.com/p/c ... increasing

Here's another insurance source: https://www.wndnewscenter.org/its-the-j ... ss-deaths/

You know where to file your cdc ****, MSM guy.

CDC and the UK government.

I'll stick with the professionals who are affected over the bureaucracies that are causing it - just keeping it real.

About that 40% increase, just to be clear, the comment from OneAmerica was specific being 3rd quarter of 2021. Not 40% for the year.

https://apnews.com/article/fact-checkin ... 45885Other posts misrepresented comments made by Scott Davison, the CEO of the Indianapolis-based insurance company OneAmerica. Davison said in a press conference in late December that his firm saw a 40% rise in death rates among working-age individuals insured under its group life policy in the third quarter of 2021. Some posts used that statistic to falsely imply vaccines were to blame, with one blog claiming the data showed a “record number of younger people in the workforce were dying after the roll-out of COVID-19 ‘vaccines.’”
 These posts misrepresent comments byDavison and others in the insurance industry. More than half of the excess deaths in the U.S. in the third quarter of 2021 were caused by COVID-19, Davison said in a statement to The Associated Press, citing CDC data.
“CDC data indicates that 65% of 3Q excess deaths can be directly attributed to COVID,” Davison said. “Our own claims data is consistent with that as well. Based on the data and our analysis, we believe that a significant portion of the remaining excess deaths are driven by deferred medical care and individuals who recover from COVID but later die from the toll COVID has taken on their bodies.”

 



 

GHETTOBLASTER » 01 Sep 2023, 3:04 pm » wrote: ↑

01 Sep 2023, 3:04 pm

My "science" is based on common sense and a little arithmetic.
With half the people competing for all the homes that are already built a huge amount of Apertment Dwellers and people who rent homes will be able to become HOME OWNERS thanks to a massive housing glut.
Millions of houses will need to be torn down and the land absorbed by neighboring property owners.
With a population that is held in check [thanks to sociological conditions that make people shy away from parenthood] there will be no need to expand into parts of the USA that have already proven to be less than desirable places to live.
At 335MM Americans and counting it is safe to say that all the best places to live have already been taken.
At the end of a 40 year career of commuting 100 miles per day from the suburbs into every major West Coast City....that works out to 3 hours per day X 200 working days per year...which is 600 hours per year.....X 40 years which equals  24,000 hours...or in other words 2.73 years out of my life were spent commuting. Now multiply my fairly common experience X millions of Commuters just like me. 
What a terrible waste of our most valuable resource..which is time.
With 1/2 the population I should expect to only throw away a year or so of my life to commuting the same distance instead of almost 3 years.

Your math is very narrowly tailored to your personal interests.

I gave you very compelling math that applied to majority of humans on the planet.

You had SO many more options than the route you took. Let me put it to you like this:

I showed you that more people resulted in longer life spans and enormously improved quality of life for billions in the third world, and you responded with first world problems. 
 

Fuelman » 01 Sep 2023, 4:34 pm » wrote: ↑

01 Sep 2023, 4:34 pm

About that 40% increase, just to be clear, the comment from OneAmerica was specific being 3rd quarter of 2021. Not 40% for the year.

A 40% increase is an order of magnitude that could be expected from a comet hitting the earth. WWII didn't cause that kind of uptick. Try to think.

Fuelman » 01 Sep 2023, 4:34 pm » wrote: ↑

01 Sep 2023, 4:34 pm

https://apnews.com/article/fact-checkin ... 45885Other posts misrepresented comments made by Scott Davison, the CEO of the Indianapolis-based insurance company OneAmerica. Davison said in a press conference in late December that his firm saw a 40% rise in death rates among working-age individuals insured under its group life policy in the third quarter of 2021. Some posts used that statistic to falsely imply vaccines were to blame, with one blog claiming the data showed a “record number of younger people in the workforce were dying after the roll-out of COVID-19 ‘vaccines.’”
 These posts misrepresent comments byDavison and others in the insurance industry. More than half of the excess deaths in the U.S. in the third quarter of 2021 were caused by COVID-19, Davison said in a statement to The Associated Press, citing CDC data.
“CDC data indicates that 65% of 3Q excess deaths can be directly attributed to COVID,” Davison said. “Our own claims data is consistent with that as well. Based on the data and our analysis, we believe that a significant portion of the remaining excess deaths are driven by deferred medical care and individuals who recover from COVID but later die from the toll COVID has taken on their bodies.”

Oh, look. You have devolved to citing the left's favorite fact checkers.

Have fun being that guy. Stand tall.