Liberal Forum

NEILCAR » 20 Aug 2022, 4:15 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Aug 2022, 4:15 pm

My position is the taxpayer and the parents should have control over what is being taught.

And what about the taxpayers and parents of kids who are traumatized, ostracized, and demonized by right winged laws, policies, and practices that seek to "disappear" them (in the vernacular of certain thread titles herein)?

What about the taxpayers and parents of minority students whose HISTORY right winged laws, policies, and practices seek to "disappear" under the auspices that someone might feel "uncomfortable" - as one Fux news pundit described her visit to a Black history museum?

Are you suggesting those taxpayers and parents SHOULDN'T have those rights?

B.See » 20 Aug 2022, 11:15 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Aug 2022, 11:15 pm

And what about the taxpayers and parents of kids who are traumatized, ostracized, and demonized by right winged laws, policies, and practices that seek to "disappear" them (in the vernacular of certain thread titles herein)?

What about the taxpayers and parents of minority students whose HISTORY right winged laws, policies, and practices seek to "disappear" under the auspices that someone might feel "uncomfortable" - as one Fux news pundit described her visit to a Black history museum?

Are you suggesting those taxpayers and parents SHOULDN'T have those rights?

Nice flowery rant.  Except I want my school system to teach the basics.
In TV interviews I watched College kids who do not know who was in the Civil War.
I watch high schoolers not knowing what 6 x 8 is.
I watch our kids who can't find the State of Washington on a map.

How is it possible you can be in college and not know who was in the Civil War??? 

I am suggesting that before you teach my 5 year old about sex ... you might work on reading, math, and spelling.  Our school system in parts of the country has lost it way and is failing.
I could suggest the taxpayers and parents of kids who are traumatized, ostracized, and demonized by the LEFT winged laws, policies and practices that seek to "disappear" them .... have a right to say I do not want a stranger I do not know well, teaching my 5 year old about sex, OR before you teach my child your thoughts on racial inequities, you should teach my child how to read!!!!

 
 

I've had to remove your direct quote because of character limits... here is my reply:

First of all, my response wasn't a rant, flowery or otherwise. It was an earnest expression of my opinions on the subject just as yours (presumably) are. So I'd be careful how you are characterizing it.

As for your response, much of it is founded upon straw man argumentation. No one here has said a single thing about teaching a 5 year old about sex. Certainly not I.  I've merely suggested treating every student with respect and acceptance.

As for teaching the basics, you are correct in pointing out college students who don't know the particulars of the Civil war, and those who may be deficient in math. But I hardly see how passing laws that would prohibit those aspects of American history that some might find "uncomfortable" is going to better educate students on the Civil War.

It is also true that the school system is failing in various ways and student performance in the U.S has been on the decline with improvement only in sporadic locales.  And there are perhaps many reasons why: some having to do with curriculum, the emphasis on end of year high stakes testing teacher pay, and no doubt, also the decades long right wing war on public education.

But NONE of what the right is, of late, implementing and TRYING to implement in our schools has a DAMNED thing to do with ANY of that.

It's sort of like their 60 something attempts to repeal the ACA. PLENTY of criticism and ZERO solutions.

 
 

Know what's REALLY funny? All the fkng whiners posting multiple threads because THEY can't come into these PG threads and have a rational discussion without engaging in drive by **** postings, personal attacks and insults, drive-by **** postings, and even THREATS. 

What's FUNNY about it is NOT A ONE OF THEM ever had **** to say in condemnation of REICH WINGED ATTACKS ON SCHOOLS AND KNOWLEDGE - INCLUDING EFFORTS TO CENSOR AND "DISAPPEAR" Black history, the LGBTQ community, transgendered individuals and EVERYTHING ELSE THEY CONSIDER 'WOKE" or that makes them feel "uncomfortable."

"I'm fweeling 'uncomfWortable'....whaaaaa."  And THEY have the fkng nerve to talk about "safe spaces??"

THE LATEST (well, not exactly the latest... I'm still about 100 articles BEHIND):

Florida Schools Block Donated Dictionaries Amid Ron DeSantis' Book Crackdown

Military veterans already teach in Florida schools and guess what? They feel disrepected, too

I'm a teacher educator, and my work has never felt so hopeless | Salon.com

more below:
 

CONTINUED FROM ABOVE

Florida Protects School Children From Dictionaries And All The Naughty Words Inside Them

School Librarian Told to Remove Banned Books Display After ONE Parent Complaned

Law Makes It Harder To Get Books In The Hands Of Kids Living In America's Third Most Illiterate State

Teachers are warning parents online about Andrew Tate’s misogyny ‘ruining’ teenage boys: ‘I’ve never heard such vitriol’

Lauren Boebert Stunned College Dems Don’t Want To Hang With A-holes Like Her - Wonkette

and get THIS a-hole:

North Carolina Republican: Children below 5th grade shouldn't be taught science or history in school 

right, UNK.

 
 

"I LOVE THE POORLY EDUCATED" - D. Trump:

Conservative activists want to ban 400 books from a library — but they aren't even on shelves

Educator warns GOP’s anti-CRT crusade threatens advanced placement classes as teachers "fired or forced to resign" | Salon.com

Tennessee showdown: Governor's big plan for right-wing charter schools sparks fierce backlash | Salon.com

Wisconsin School bans blm and pride flags calling them "political"

Texas School Board Bans the Word Transgender from District
 

DeVos-backed voucher initiative to send public money to private schools - submits second petition in effort to avoid veto from Whitmer 

Nebraska School District eliminates an Entire High School Journalism Program After Students Published a Year-end Edition Featuring LGBTQ Content and Imagery

How a far-right, Christian cellphone company ‘took over’ four Texas school boards

Michigan Town Defunds Library So Kids Can't Read LBGTQ Books

Florida students ignore DeSantis' free speech survey; expert calls response rate dismal

The Culture War Is Chasing Teachers Away, Leaving Kids Shortchanged 

Grapevine, Texas High School students stage walkout in protest of new district policies that discriminate against transgender people and discussions of race

 

TRUMP: "I LOVE THE POORLY EDUCATED" - so does the MAGA REICH.  The more misinformed and ignorant (willfully or otherwise) the better they're able to gaslight and BAMBOOZLE them:

THE LATEST FROM THE REPUBLICAN WAR ON EDUCATION:

Nebraska high school shutters newspaper after students dare to cover homophobia during Pride Month

GOP Lawmaker Demands Tennessee Colleges Remove LGBTQ+ Protections

Hypocrites: Texas school district rejects 'In God We Trust' signs in written Arabic, or in rainbow colours

Mother demands Texas education board ban teaching about Gandhi as part of critical race theory crackdown

BLOWBACK

Virginia Court Blocks Republican Attempt To Criminalize LGBTQ Books

B.See » 20 Aug 2022, 1:13 am » wrote: ↑

20 Aug 2022, 1:13 am

When I created my first thread on what Republicans are doing to education in America, I called it an assault.

And NOW that war has ALSO devolved into attacks, intimidation, and even violent threats, directed not only at teachers and school administrators, but toward school board members, elected representatives, libraries, librarians...

and EVEN STUDENTS THEMSELVES.
 
PG THREAD RULES: applies to this thread as all my PG enabled threads: rational discussions, points counter points, rebuttals and responses are welcome, but NOT personal insults, name calling, fabricating 'direct' quotes, hate speech, drive by **** posting, trolling, and senseless content. Some who've habitually engaged in such have already been uninvited, while others have NOT been uninvited...yet.

You take money from the school district and then you do not do what they want ... yes they are under attack ... deservedly so ... 

The public education system is supposed to teach what the individual school district wants them to teach.  That is the very fundamental reason the public create the districts and allows taxation for the schools.   If you do not teach what the people in that school district want, you are subject to recall, teacher being dismissed, or voted out at the next election. 
If people do not want CRT, SEX, or Geography to be taught within their school district ... they can make it happen.   It is their school district, and you are using their money.  
 
 
 

NEILCAR » 01 Sep 2022, 5:37 am » wrote: ↑

01 Sep 2022, 5:37 am

You take money from the school district and then you do not do what they want ... yes they are under attack ... deservedly so ... 

The public education system is supposed to teach what the individual school district wants them to teach.  That is the very fundamental reason the public create the districts and allows taxation for the schools.   If you do not teach what the people in that school district want, you are subject to recall, teacher being dismissed, or voted out at the next election. 
If people do not want CRT, SEX, or Geography to be taught within their school district ... they can make it happen.   It is their school district, and you are using their money.

For ONE, the MAGA REICH is not only trying to remove Black history (under the guise of CRT) and "disappear" gay people (under the guise of "sex education") but they're trying to supplant it with their FAR RIGHT propaganda and DISINFORMATION.

Secondly, what about what the parents of gays, minorities, and people who DON'T SUBSCRIBE TO HATE BASED RIGHT WINGED IDEOLOGY want? They don't get to have a say??

Third, taxpayer money is now being funneled into private and parochial schools that in turn have said gay students need not apply. Why the **** should taxpayer money fund their right to discriminate??

Bottom line, the MAGA CULTURE WAR on education is a war upon MINORITIES, GAYS, AND ANY KNOWLEDGE CONTRARY TO THEIR FASCIST WHITE SUPREMACIST IDEOLOGY.
 

B.See » 02 Sep 2022, 11:10 pm » wrote: ↑

02 Sep 2022, 11:10 pm

For ONE, the MAGA REICH is not only trying to remove Black history (under the guise of CRT) and "disappear" gay people (under the guise of "sex education") but they're trying to supplant it with their FAR RIGHT propaganda and DISINFORMATION.

Secondly, what about what the parents of gays, minorities, and people who DON'T SUBSCRIBE TO HATE BASED RIGHT WINGED IDEOLOGY want? They don't get to have a say??

Third, taxpayer money is now being funneled into private and parochial schools that in turn have said gay students need not apply. Why the **** should taxpayer money fund their right to discriminate??

Bottom line, the MAGA CULTURE WAR on education is a war upon MINORITIES, GAYS, AND ANY KNOWLEDGE CONTRARY TO THEIR FASCIST WHITE SUPREMACIST IDEOLOGY.

nice flowery argument. 
...  If the majority of the people within a school district do not want a subject taught ... they have the authority, the money, and the right to make it so. (whether you or I like it or not). 

... The people created the school district, they fund the school district, and by voting for board members -- they control the school district ... 

NEILCAR » 03 Sep 2022, 3:57 am » wrote: ↑

03 Sep 2022, 3:57 am

nice flowery argument. 
...  If the majority of the people within a school district do not want a subject taught ... they have the authority, the money, and the right to make it so. (whether you or I like it or not). 

... The people created the school district, they fund the school district, and by voting for board members -- they control the school district ...

It is not a "flowery argument" and I don't appreciate your trying to characterize it as such. I'm putting forth counterpoints to YOUR arguments.  Fact is voters don't always control either school districts or board members, especially not in private, charter, or parochial schools.

Bottom line is, the right has LONG been attacking public education and they are now engaged in a CULTURE war aimed at removing and censoring parts of American history and demonizing minorities and gay people.

B.See » 03 Sep 2022, 5:05 am » wrote: ↑

03 Sep 2022, 5:05 am

It is not a "flowery argument" and I don't appreciate your trying to characterize it as such. I'm putting forth counterpoints to YOUR arguments.  Fact is voters don't always control either school districts or board members, especially not in private, charter, or parochial schools.

Bottom line is, the right has LONG been attacking public education and they are now engaged in a CULTURE war aimed at removing and censoring parts of American history and demonizing minorities and gay people.

The people who live within the school district have the final say ... 
 

NEILCAR » 03 Sep 2022, 8:58 am » wrote: ↑

03 Sep 2022, 8:58 am

The people who live within the school district have the final say ...

Oh, not to worry. I fully understand your point of view. You believe people within a school district have the right to obscure another people's history, to deny and or ignore "uncomfortable" facts about America's history, and to ignore, dehumanize, disenfranchise, and discriminate against those who THEY traditionally try to "other." as undesirables not worthy of either recognition or respect.

And I happen to disagree.
 

B.See » 04 Sep 2022, 5:12 am » wrote: ↑

04 Sep 2022, 5:12 am

Oh, not to worry. I fully understand your point of view. You believe people within a school district have the right to obscure another people's history, to deny and or ignore "uncomfortable" facts about America's history, and to ignore, dehumanize, disenfranchise, and discriminate against those who THEY traditionally try to "other." as undesirables not worthy of either recognition or respect.

And I happen to disagree.

Minor point, it is their school district, they are the ones who created it, who fund it, and who control what is taught.

Those are facts that at some point in time you will have to accept.   
 

NEILCAR » 04 Sep 2022, 9:01 am » wrote: ↑

04 Sep 2022, 9:01 am

Minor point, it is their school district, they are the ones who created it, who fund it, and who control what is taught.

Those are facts that at some point in time you will have to accept.

Contrary to your position that "the people" have the right to determine what gets taught, the FACTS ARE that Repubicans DON'T WANT THE PEOPLE TO DETERMINE A DAMNED THING.

Which is PRECISELY why they're using all kinds of underhanded methods to block and/or leave voter initiatives OFF THE BALLOTS in REPUBLICAN CONTROLLED STATES - initiatives having to do with VOTING RIGHTS, GAY RIGHTS, ABORTION AND EDUCATION, to name some.

ALSO why they've left NO STONE UNTURNED in their efforts to RIG THE VOTE in their favor - including gerrymandering voting districts, intimidating voters, passing laws that limit voter access, and laws that give them the power to overturn voter outcomes THEY DON'T LIKE.

All because their whiney assed LOSER of a man-baby (and one, incidentally, who's been a loser all his fkng life, yet escaped the CONSEQUENCES of it only by way of his privilege and INHERITED money) couldn't stand LOSING.... AGAIN.

Because actually, he only "won" the FIRST time via the power of the rigged Electoral College. HE'S NEVER WON THE POPULAR VOTE.

HE DIDN'T WIN THE POPULAR VOTE THE FIRST TIME. So how the **** he expected to win the second time, AFTER ALL HIS HATEFUL, DIVISIVE ****, is beyond ME. The mirrors this jackass had been looking in must've CERTAINLY been LYING TO HIM.
 
 

Here's hoping that this Labor Day Weekend were well deserved days of PEACE... "on Earth to MEN OF GOOD WILL."  So let's get on with it...

IN RECENT NEWS:

CNN on the armed bigots demanding an Idaho library ban books it does not have | Boing Boing

A far-right company took over four Texas school boards, and hate is at the top of their agenda

Republicans sue to force school district, private bookseller Barnes & Noble to remove two books

‘The most biased example of bias’: Parent shares Florida elementary teacher’s pro-Big Lie worksheet

Guess why this school board decided not to allow free meals for all students regardless of income

Both public and private school teachers and librarians could face up to a year in jail over books

Shocking New Lesson In Florida Public School Boosts Trump's Election Lie | HuffPost Latest News




 

B.See » 06 Sep 2022, 6:06 am » wrote: ↑

06 Sep 2022, 6:06 am

Contrary to your position that "the people" have the right to determine what gets taught, the FACTS ARE that Repubicans DON'T WANT THE PEOPLE TO DETERMINE A DAMNED THING.

HE DIDN'T WIN THE POPULAR VOTE THE FIRST TIME. So how the **** he expected to win the second time, AFTER ALL HIS HATEFUL, DIVISIVE ****, is beyond ME. The mirrors this jackass had been looking in must've CERTAINLY been LYING TO HIM.

The Electoral College is how we have been electing Presidents for over 240 years.  If you are going to play the game learn the rules. 
Some would suggest that it is the Dem party who don't want the people to determine a damned thing by forcing our kids to learn CRT (which is a theory not a fact, and a false theory at that), who want to talk about sex to a 5-year-old (you would be arrested in most of the country if you tried that) ... The parents do not want that. 

The rest of the stuff you are just making up or seems bias.  Your alleged Republican voter suppression laws in Virginia had more people voting than ever before ... so logic is not your strong suit. 
Gerrymandering has been done in every state by both sides. 
Dems have been proving Trump innocent for over 7 years now, I think that trend will continue.
 
 

(can't post your direct quote due to 2000 character limit)

It's the election deniers who are trying to change the rules, bud.

And CRT was never a course intended to be offered to grade school kids. That's all REICH WINGED HORSE-**** conjured up to obscure the teaching of America's racist past, slavery, Black history, even lessons about MLK have been discouraged if not outright barred in some places. 

Meanwhile right winged Texas lawmakers have proposed the teaching of the Nazi side of the Holocaust. While they're also trying to inject lessons supporting Trump's Big Lie, trying to demonize gays and trans people, and raising phony assed, fear mongering, false flag issues like "grooming" and "sex ed for kids" among other nefarious **** of their making.

All of which YOU'RE trying to defend. Along with your denials of the right winged effort to suppress the vote, as well as keeping VOTER INITIATIVES OFF THE BALLOT.

SPEAKING OF REICH WINGED ****:

Florida parents outraged after teacher tells kids that saying Trump lost the election is an example of media bias

Northwood Temple Academy in Fayetteville, North Carolina, Baptizes 100 Kids Without Parents’ Permission

GOP Official Tells Tennessee Colleges Not To Say Title IX Protects LGBTQ People

 
 

B.See » 06 Sep 2022, 7:14 am » wrote: ↑

06 Sep 2022, 7:14 am

GOP Official Tells Tennessee Colleges Not To Say Title IX Protects LGBTQ People

The people who pay for the education get to tell them what they can teach ... good, bad, or indifferent ... 
you nor I may NOT like that fact ... but at some point in time, you need to accept that 

The way we elect Presidents was a compromise between big and small states.  Since the big states will never have a 75% vote to change the Constitution (in this regard) you need to learn how to elect a President within the U.S. 

like most dem you would rather break the law --- rather than follow the rules.