Liberal Forum

roadkill » 28 Aug 2022, 10:33 am » wrote: ↑

28 Aug 2022, 10:33 am

Then neither is Socialism.

I'm not perfect...and I don't go to church. Although I did go to a church Friday for my landlord's memorial.  He recently passed away. He was a friend and a good guy.

I keep my own personal relationship with God rather than be judge by man or in a church.

^^^stomps his feet. 

I guess you told Cannon……….nothing in particular. 

 

Pastafarian » 28 Aug 2022, 10:35 am » wrote: ↑

28 Aug 2022, 10:35 am

^^^stomps his feet. 

I guess you told Cannon……….nothing in particular.

I think most here know you stomp yer feet more than I do.   

roadkill » 28 Aug 2022, 10:37 am » wrote: ↑

28 Aug 2022, 10:37 am

I think most here know you stomp yer feet more than I do.

^^^whine is in your bloodstream. 
 

roadkill » 28 Aug 2022, 10:33 am » wrote: ↑

28 Aug 2022, 10:33 am

Then neither is Socialism.

No **** ****. 

I'm not the either/or guy - you are. And that is what I keep trying to correct.

I'm the guy who keeps pointing to FREE ENTERPRISE as the solution, and who keeps DISTINGUISHING free enterprise from capitalism. I'm the guy who CONTINUALLY tries to save you from the false dichotomy that you have bought into, and alert you to who your REAL enemies are. Stalin and Mao are not among them - both dead. 

Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are alive.

And well.

And capitalists.

And you can wheedle, "Yeah, but they are CORRUPT capitalists. It's the CORRUPTION, not the capitalism."

But when you do, you know what happens. That's when I challenge you to tell us when the REAL capitalism happened, and who the players were. And then - whatever era you choose - I googleslap the holy **** out of you, showing you that capitalism was ALWAYS the same, even before it was named by Adam Smith.

Capitalism - LIKE SOCIALISM - is a state run, state enforced economic model.
 

Cannonpointer » 28 Aug 2022, 10:51 am » wrote: ↑

28 Aug 2022, 10:51 am

No **** ****. 

I'm not the either/or guy - you are. And that is what I keep trying to correct.

I'm the guy who keeps pointing to FREE ENTERPRISE as the solution, and who keeps DISTINGUISHING free enterprise from capitalism. I'm the guy who CONTINUALLY tries to save you from the false dichotomy that you have bought into, and alert you to who your REAL enemies are. Stalin and Mao are not among them - both dead. 

Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are alive.

And well.

And capitalists.

And you can wheedle, "Yeah, but they are CORRUPT capitalists. It's the CORRUPTION, not the capitalism."

But when you do, you know what happens. That's when I challenge you to tell us when the REAL capitalism happened, and who the players were. And then - whatever era you choose - I googleslap the holy **** out of you, showing you that capitalism was ALWAYS the same, even before it was named by Adam Smith.

Capitalism - LIKE SOCIALISM - is a state run, state enforced economic model.

What happens if Free Enterprise gets corrupt?  Do we change the name?  

Pastafarian » 28 Aug 2022, 10:39 am » wrote: ↑

28 Aug 2022, 10:39 am

^^^whine is in your bloodstream.

Or...whining is in yours.  

roadkill » 28 Aug 2022, 10:57 am » wrote: ↑

28 Aug 2022, 10:57 am

What happens if Free Enterprise gets corrupt?  

EVERYTHING can be corrupted, and it is likely that the vast majority of free enterprise exchanges contains some element of corruption, here on this earth. 

But free enterprise is a condition that NATURLLY ARISES BETWEEN PEOPLE wherever two or more are gathered. 

Capitalism and socialism are state supported, state mandated, state enforced redistributions of wealth. Free enterprise is voluntary. 
 

Cannonpointer » 28 Aug 2022, 11:01 am » wrote: ↑

28 Aug 2022, 11:01 am

EVERYTHING can be corrupted, and it is likely that the vast majority of free enterprise exchanges contains some element of corruption, here on this earth. 

But free enterprise is a condition that NATURLLY ARISES BETWEEN PEOPLE wherever two or more are gathered. 

Capitalism and socialism are state supported, state mandated, state enforced redistributions of wealth. Free enterprise is voluntary.

If a neighbor wants to trade 1 acre for food to feed his family...then you learn his family is starving and you require 2 acres for the food, does that mean Free Enterprise is corrupt, or just some of the people within that model of trade?
 

roadkill » 28 Aug 2022, 11:07 am » wrote: ↑

28 Aug 2022, 11:07 am

If a neighbor wants to trade 1 acre for food to feed his family...then you learn his family is starving and you require 2 acres for the food, does that mean Free Enterprise is corrupt, or just some of the people within that model of trade?

The people. The model itself is God's law - perfect. People corrupt everything. That is the nature of fallen man. 

The ideal is to use God's perfect law imperfectly, over satan's imperfect law. Capitalism and socialism are both state state-run, state-enforced economic models. 
 

Cannonpointer » 28 Aug 2022, 11:31 am » wrote: ↑

28 Aug 2022, 11:31 am

The people. The model itself is God's law - perfect. People corrupt everything. That is the nature of fallen man. 

The ideal is to use God's perfect law imperfectly, over satan's imperfect law. Capitalism and socialism are both state state-run, state-enforced economic models.

Last I looked bartering is illegal unless done on an authority approved platform where the gov still gets their tax.   

"In trade, barter (derived from baretor) is a system of exchange in which participants in a transaction directly exchange goods or services for other goods or services without using a medium of exchange, such as money."

Here's the hard to understand part for me...

Romans 13:1-14

1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

 The rest follows on the next post...
 
 

 Fulfilling the Law Through Love 

8 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

11 Besides this you know the time, that the hour has come for you to wake from sleep. For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed. 12 The night is far gone; the day is at hand. So then let us cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light. 13 Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy. 14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires. 
 
 

roadkill » 28 Aug 2022, 11:50 am » wrote: ↑

28 Aug 2022, 11:50 am

Last I looked bartering is illegal unless done on an authority approved platform where the gov still gets their tax.   

"In trade, barter (derived from baretor) is a system of exchange in which participants in a transaction directly exchange goods or services for other goods or services without using a medium of exchange, such as money."

Barter is GENERALLY not illegal in America - but it is becoming so.

Here's the hard to understand part for me...

roadkill » 28 Aug 2022, 11:50 am » wrote: ↑

28 Aug 2022, 11:50 am

Romans 13:1-14

1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

 The rest follows on the next post...

The God-ordained ruler in America is the United States Constitution. Disobedience to that is proscribed by your post. $1.90 stuffed shirts are not ordained by God. The Constitution is. You don't have to follow Biden into outlawry based on that scripture. 
 

roadkill » 28 Aug 2022, 11:50 am » wrote: ↑

28 Aug 2022, 11:50 am

 Fulfilling the Law Through Love 

8 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

11 Besides this you know the time, that the hour has come for you to wake from sleep. For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed. 12 The night is far gone; the day is at hand. So then let us cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light. 13 Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy. 14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.

Loving the truth is what matters - and the truth is, capitalism and socialism are flip sides of the same counterfeit coin. God's economic model is free enterprise. 
 

Cannonpointer » 26 Aug 2022, 7:41 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Aug 2022, 7:41 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC7sTj-PYWY
 

“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement, the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyzes the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step, and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.” - Sir Winston Churchill "The River War" Vol. II, pp. 248-50, London; Longman, Green & Co. 1899
 
 

Cannonpointer » 28 Aug 2022, 12:05 pm » wrote: ↑

28 Aug 2022, 12:05 pm

Loving the truth is what matters - and the truth is, capitalism and socialism are flip sides of the same counterfeit coin. God's economic model is free enterprise.

But God said obey the government that he put in place...which it seems we both have a problem with.


So...did God put a government in place and the corrupt stole that government and it's up to us to know that the current government should be replaced through our vote?  

Cannonpointer » 28 Aug 2022, 12:02 pm » wrote: ↑

28 Aug 2022, 12:02 pm

Barter is GENERALLY not illegal in America - but it is becoming so.

Here's the hard to understand part for me...

The God-ordained ruler in America is the United States Constitution. Disobedience to that is proscribed by your post. $1.90 stuffed shirts are not ordained by God. The Constitution is. You don't have to follow Biden into outlawry based on that scripture.

That's a good argument...It's the Constitutional authority that God put in place.  Not those who corrupted it.  I can go for that. 

Cannonpointer » 28 Aug 2022, 12:02 pm » wrote: ↑

28 Aug 2022, 12:02 pm

Barter is GENERALLY not illegal in America - but it is becoming so.

Here's the hard to understand part for me...

The God-ordained ruler in America is the United States Constitution. Disobedience to that is proscribed by your post. $1.90 stuffed shirts are not ordained by God. The Constitution is. You don't have to follow Biden into outlawry based on that scripture.

Here's some wisdom that always made sense to me...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_az3eNb0fI
 

Cannonpointer » 28 Aug 2022, 12:05 pm » wrote: ↑

28 Aug 2022, 12:05 pm

Loving the truth is what matters - and the truth is, capitalism and socialism are flip sides of the same counterfeit coin. God's economic model is free enterprise.

I believe you've made a fair argument...but I reserve the right to keep my mind open to future wisdom.


 

Cannonpointer » 28 Aug 2022, 12:05 pm » wrote: ↑

28 Aug 2022, 12:05 pm

Loving the truth is what matters - and the truth is, capitalism and socialism are flip sides of the same counterfeit coin. God's economic model is free enterprise.

You'll probably appreciate this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHLDtpJD5Q4&t=7s
 

roadkill » 28 Aug 2022, 2:24 pm » wrote: ↑

28 Aug 2022, 2:24 pm

You'll probably appreciate this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHLDtpJD5Q4&t=7s

"The Post won a Pulitzer for investigating ME - not crooks in the government."