Trifling debate
By LibDave
7 Sep 2022 1:19 pm in No Holds Barred Political Forum
7 Sep 2022 3:30 pm
Why not Shondra? Why it gotta be a patty name?LibDave » 07 Sep 2022, 2:54 pm » wrote: ↑ Perhaps. There are differences. My opinion is there is no break even point. Which is why i consider it more of an entitlement. Entitled at a certain age. Government funded. Loses money.
For example, if you consider SS to be a sort of insurance policy for the event you reach old age then it could be compared to a retirement account. However, a major difference is a retirement account remains yours and is passed on to your heirs when you die. The rules regarding survivor benefits are ridiculous in comparison with a retirement account. I'm familiar with these as I worked with a friend of mine with 6 children who was widowed. We'll call her Debbie.
Das physical conservatizum.LibDave » 07 Sep 2022, 2:54 pm » wrote: ↑ Debbie had 6 children with her husband. Her husband died of Non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma before either reached retirement age. She didn't work and was a stay at home mom. Survivor benefit rules meant she was entitled to 50% of her husbands eligibility for 18 years. Of her 6 children (1 adopted) only 1 was still below the age of 18. Surviving children over the age of 18 receive no benefits. Each child under age 18 can receive a portion of the remaining 50% up to 1/6th of the benefit amount until age 18. So in Debbie's case her husbands benefit was about 18,000 per year after paying in for 40 years. We'll call it 20K/year to make it easy. So Debbie gets 10,000/year for 18 years and her 11 year old daughter gets 1/6th of that for 7 years until she turns 18 or about 1,700/year. All told, 11,700 for 7 years then 10,000 for 11 or about 190,000 over 18 years if she lives that long. Yet at just 2% rate of return it would be over twice that much.
I's all for mo'.
7 Sep 2022 3:30 pm
7 Sep 2022 3:32 pm
Here are some examples:
Income/annual SS deductions from paycheck/amount paid in over 40 years/total at 2% return/total at 10% return/amount paid to you over 18 years in retirement
20,000 2,880 115,200 224,350 3,076,607 193,000
100,000 14,400 576,000 881,332 7,588,895 772,520
And that is if you survive to collect anything at all.
Income/annual SS deductions from paycheck/amount paid in over 40 years/total at 2% return/total at 10% return/amount paid to you over 18 years in retirement
20,000 2,880 115,200 224,350 3,076,607 193,000
100,000 14,400 576,000 881,332 7,588,895 772,520
And that is if you survive to collect anything at all.
7 Sep 2022 3:36 pm
II have seen that before and I am not fooled.into believing it is true about my accountConsRule » 07 Sep 2022, 3:11 pm » wrote: ↑ I understand your logic, but according to the definition Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, etc. are entitlements.
A Federal program or provision of law that requires payments to any person or unit of government that meets the eligibility criteria established by law. Entitlements constitute a binding obligation on the part of the Federal Government, and eligible recipients have legal recourse if the obligation is not fulfilled.
Earnings are not entitlements.
7 Sep 2022 3:41 pm
Buffalo...this is the way I see itBuffalo » 07 Sep 2022, 3:08 pm » wrote: ↑ YOU are entitled to every penny you paid into the SS System as promised. Those that paid nothing into the system are not entitled to anything from the SS System.
I am entitled to the paycheck that I worked to earn...
but...
My paycheck is not an entitlement.
7 Sep 2022 3:42 pm
LibDave » 07 Sep 2022, 1:19 pm » wrote: ↑ Subjects and debate on here are far too trifling. It digresses to continuous response streams of little more than name calling.
How about a substantive thread. For example expenditures.
What are your priorities for government spending and cuts? Do we need more or less government?
Defense Can be cut, just not sure how much. Weapon systems need to be state of the art, but there is undoubtedly waste. There is always the debate of the point where you are just "throwing good money after bad" related to new systems and replacing existing weapons.
Entitlements (SS, Welfare, Food Stamps, etc.) Can most assuredly be cut simply by "sicking a Pit Bull" after fraud and cutting the waste.
Roads Money should ONLY be spent on interstate highways. All other roads are the responsibility of the state/county/city.
Education Not one penny at the federal level
IRS If they aren't serious about going after everyone who commits fraud (see Al Sharpton), then cut dramatically. Computer can process a return.
NASA Mixed feeling here. The "race to the moon" resulted in a lot of things we take for granted today. I'm OK with leaning on private companies at a lower cost as long as they get to benefit from those "breakthrough products".
etc. List your favorite and least favorite.
7 Sep 2022 3:50 pm
I like it. Any more you could add to the list?
7 Sep 2022 3:52 pm
NASA....How many Cosmologists do we really need to keep on the pay roll...?
Does anyone here have any idea what a typically grueling, high pressure day at one of their facilities might look like...?
When you take a tour through some of these Government Facilities and see a pool table, foosball table, ping pong table, a special "resting room" with a couch. a basketball hoop set up outside....offices with reclining chairs and grease stains on the wall right about where a napping government employee's head would rest....
Does anyone here have any idea what a typically grueling, high pressure day at one of their facilities might look like...?
When you take a tour through some of these Government Facilities and see a pool table, foosball table, ping pong table, a special "resting room" with a couch. a basketball hoop set up outside....offices with reclining chairs and grease stains on the wall right about where a napping government employee's head would rest....
7 Sep 2022 3:59 pm
I must agree that is more accurate than most would believe.GHETTOBLASTER » 07 Sep 2022, 3:52 pm » wrote: ↑ NASA....How many Cosmologists do we really need to keep on the pay roll...?
Does anyone here have any idea what a typically grueling, high pressure day at one of their facilities might look like...?
When you take a tour through some of these Government Facilities and see a pool table, foosball table, ping pong table, a special "resting room" with a couch. a basketball hoop set up outside....offices with reclining chairs and grease stains on the wall right about where a napping government employee's head would rest....
7 Sep 2022 4:06 pm
Actually, I would insist that EVERY department of the federal government be required to cut spending (actual spending, as in dollars going out...not the game Washington plays and calls spending cuts), by a minimum of 2% every year. If, say the DOJ, spent $300 billion in 2022, their budget for 2023 is capped (hard cap) at $294 billion. If the AG cannot find 2% fat/waste they are either a thief or incompetent.
7 Sep 2022 4:07 pm
LibDave » 07 Sep 2022, 2:54 pm » wrote: ↑ In other words the only way to get the entire survivor amount they would have to have had 6 children born when he died.
.
For those of you familiar with retirement accounts you know this is a horrid rate of return. It doesn't even cover inflation. And Inflation is calculated in a manner deliberately intended to under estimate the rate of inflation.
As a comparison I put 15% of my income into tax deferred and after-tax retirement accounts for 30 years (10 years fewer). After just 30 years I withdrew $900,000 to purchase a home and have $1.4 Million remaining for when I retire. Gains on the 1.4 Million remaining are normally around 150,000/year (sometimes more, sometimes less). This is 20X what you get from SS! And it wasn't like my investment choices were akin to Warren Buffet's picks. To put it in a better perspective, these are my accounts and if I die early my children will receive the money, unlike SS where the government says, "Oh so sorry, We win!".
They force you to put money into SS at the point of a gun because no one would invest in such a one-sided contract. I could in fact pay 1/20th the amount into a life insurance policy and my heirs would get back the same amount no matter when I died.
Your long term returns average over 10%?Gains on the 1.4 Million remaining are normally around 150,000/year (sometimes more, sometimes less)
What are you in?
7 Sep 2022 4:10 pm
Real or nominal?ConsRule » 07 Sep 2022, 4:06 pm » wrote: ↑ Actually, I would insist that EVERY department of the federal government be required to cut spending (actual spending, as in dollars going out...not the game Washington plays and calls spending cuts), by a minimum of 2% every year. If, say the DOJ, spent $300 billion in 2022, their budget for 2023 is capped (hard cap) at $294 billion. If the AG cannot find 2% fat/waste they are either a thief or incompetent.
7 Sep 2022 4:10 pm
NAVALEX VALLEJO had 2 full time GROUNDING INSPECTORS just for the "secure / classified" electrical installations on NAVY SHIPS.LibDave » 07 Sep 2022, 3:59 pm » wrote: ↑ I must agree that is more accurate than most would believe.
These guys were not THE ELECTRICAL INSPECTORS...all they were concerned with was the bonding of the NON CURRENT CARRYING METALLIC PARTS OF ELECTRICAL EQUIPMENT TO THE SHIPS HULL.
Not a lot to it...but they were GS 10s or 11s.
I visited both their offices in Vallejo and they both had sweat stains on the wall behind their desks.
7 Sep 2022 4:16 pm
What did I write?
Read the actual post and you'll have your answer.
7 Sep 2022 4:17 pm
If you're asking would I adjust for inflation? No. find places to cut.
7 Sep 2022 4:23 pm
So you would oblige an effective 9% cut across the board for all depts next year, irrespective of economic and population growth...ConsRule » 07 Sep 2022, 4:17 pm » wrote: ↑ If you're asking would I adjust for inflation? No. find places to cut.
7 Sep 2022 4:23 pm
I'm glad you figured that out.ConsRule » 07 Sep 2022, 4:16 pm » wrote: ↑ What did I write?
Read the actual post and you'll have your answer.
I would have been ruthless.
7 Sep 2022 4:33 pm
ABSO-DAMN-LUTELY!!!!Blackvegetable » 07 Sep 2022, 4:23 pm » wrote: ↑ So you would oblige an effective 9% cut across the board for all depts next year, irrespective of economic and population growth...
Don't you think there are unnecessary employees in the federal government? A list of 1,000 could probably be made inside a week. In addition to the eliminated wages, you get a cut in benefits, insurances that are based on payroll totals, etc. Consolidate offices after the head count reductions where practical. Get the procurement people to actually do their job and source EVERYTHING for better prices. Private section businesses do it all the time...the government can as well.
Hell, our company is VERY profitable (30+% to the bottom line) and we still get beat up over expenses every month...inflation is not an excuse.
7 Sep 2022 4:35 pm
I keep pretty good track of it. Done so for 28 years. I ran the numbers about a year ago and It was between 11 and 12%. 12% isn't all that good. I invest in what I know. And I'm pretty good nowadays. I wish I knew what I know now in the early years. But I did pretty well back then too, for a rookie wannabe. All of my investments are self-directed for the most part though I do keep some in Mutuals (those I have researched their holdings). Some options and commodites. Long and short, though more long (matches my genitaliaBlackvegetable » 07 Sep 2022, 4:07 pm » wrote: ↑
Your long term returns average over 10%?
What are you in?
). On rare occasion Futures.I don't give out advice. The markets are time based and any advice quickly needs adjustments. For that you really have to study economics and invest in what you know. Advice my gramma gave me and she was right. Important to really understand the markets and various influences, especially understand the mathematics of risk (actuarial). That takes time, attention, more time and intuition. Futures especially are REALLY tough until you realize the markets are sort of rigged. But it can actually be to your advantage due to grasshoppers and giants.
7 Sep 2022 4:35 pm
That's because you didn't carefully read what I posted. I was talking in actual dollars spent, and clearly stated such. You already had your answer if you can comprehend what you read.Blackvegetable » 07 Sep 2022, 4:23 pm » wrote: ↑ I'm glad you figured that out.
I would have been ruthless.
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