Liberal Forum

Huey » 20 Nov 2022, 2:00 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Nov 2022, 2:00 pm

@Blackvegetable    I forgot to tag you in on this:

Just to educate you on what we are talking about:

26 U.S. Code § 5845 - Definitions
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/5845

That contains terminology used by the FED Gov to classify weapons and parts as NFA weapons.  You will not find a definition for automatic or assault rifle. Because they are classified as machine guns.

b)MachinegunThe term “machinegun” means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.

Blackvegetable » 20 Nov 2022, 2:05 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Nov 2022, 2:05 pm

We covered this, you **** idiot.

This has NOTHING to do with how the military classifies weapons.

Nothing at all.

Huey » 20 Nov 2022, 2:11 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Nov 2022, 2:11 pm

Doesn’t matter how the military classifies it when we are talking a weapon specifically designed for civilians.  You have to go by what the NFA says about it. The classify the Armalite Rifle 15/M16 as a machine gun.  That’s the terminology is used in the citation and the letter you refuse to read.

As a matter of fact the US Army doesn’t classify the Colt Sporter, or any knock off as an assault rifle because it is not a select fire weapon.

Blackvegetable » 20 Nov 2022, 2:15 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Nov 2022, 2:15 pm

Huey » 20 Nov 2022, 2:11 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Nov 2022, 2:11 pm

 

Stop with the ****, Verbal.

He and Savage also cleared up a point of potential confusion on why the classification letter refers to the AR-15 as an “automatic rifle.”

“It is because (my thoughts) that they sent two rifles,” Stamboulieh offered. “One was an automatic rifle, and the other was the modified rifle made to be not a machinegun (a semi-automatic version). So the ATF said, yes, this modified ‘automatic rifle’

Huey » 26 Jul 2022, 10:25 am » wrote: ↑

26 Jul 2022, 10:25 am

Blackvegetable » 26 Jul 2022, 10:22 am » wrote: ↑

26 Jul 2022, 10:22 am

 

Blackvegetable » 20 Nov 2022, 2:15 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Nov 2022, 2:15 pm

 

Stop with the ****, Verbal.


 

Huey » 18 Jun 2022, 9:29 am » wrote: ↑

18 Jun 2022, 9:29 am

Blackvegetable » 18 Jun 2022, 9:24 am » wrote: ↑

18 Jun 2022, 9:24 am

I mean "assault rifles".

I can't put it more plainly.

Yes, defined as:The U.S. Army defines assault rifles as "short, compact, selective-fire weapons that fire a cartridge intermediate in power between submachine gun and rifle cartridges."[18] In this strict definition, a firearm must have at least the following characteristics to be considered an assault rifle:[2][3][4]

• It must be capable of selective fire.
• It must have an intermediate-power cartridge: more power than a pistol but less than a standard rifle or battle rifle, examples of intermediate cartridges are the 7.92×33mm Kurz, the 7.62×39mm and 5.56×45mm NATO.
• Its ammunition must be supplied from a detachable box magazine.[5]
• It must have an effective range of at least 300 metres (330 yards).

Rifles that meet most of these criteria, but not all, are not assault rifles according to the U.S. Army's definition. For example:

• Select-fire M2 Carbines are not assault rifles; their effective range is only 180 metres (200 yd).[19]
• Select-fire rifles such as the Fedorov Avtomat, FN FAL, M14, and H&K G3 main battle rifles are not assault rifles; they fire full-powered rifle cartridges.
• Semi-automatic-only rifles like the Colt AR-15 are not assault rifles; they do not have select-fire capabilities.
• Semi-automatic-only rifles with fixed magazines like the SKS are not assault rifles; they do not have detachable box magazines and are not capable of automatic fire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle#Definition

Huey » 20 Nov 2022, 2:41 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Nov 2022, 2:41 pm

Sorry, once again, no ****. 

No ****.  How can you call a weapon a military assault weapon designed for the battlefield that military itself does not define if as an assault weapon designed for the battlefield? Just one of those things that makes you say "Hmmm".

Notice that he COLT Ar 15 is specifically named.

Blackvegetable » 20 Nov 2022, 2:43 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Nov 2022, 2:43 pm

No...it's complete ****.

Read your own citation.

So the ATF said, yes, this modified ‘automatic rifle’

Huey » 20 Nov 2022, 2:51 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Nov 2022, 2:51 pm

Read the letter.   In order to “modify” means you create another design.  Duh.  

Words of the ATF:

“have changed the weapon basic design”….

Nod.

The ATF would not have certified the Colt AR 15 if it was a military assault rifle.

Blackvegetable » 20 Nov 2022, 2:57 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Nov 2022, 2:57 pm

They did so because it was MODIFIED.

**** idiot.

Huey » 20 Nov 2022, 3:26 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Nov 2022, 3:26 pm

Who said it wasn’t?  I posted the design differences for you.

Huey » 20 Nov 2022, 2:51 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Nov 2022, 2:51 pm

Read the letter.   In order to “modify” means you create another design.  Duh.  

Words of the ATF:

“have changed the weapon basic design”….

Nod.

The ATF would not have certified the Colt AR 15 if it was a military assault rifle.

In order to “modify” means you create another design.  Duh.  

Blackvegetable » 20 Nov 2022, 3:43 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Nov 2022, 3:43 pm

No....

It wouldn't need to be MODIFIED if it was designed to be semi auto.

There would be no need to reference a second rifle.

Duh.

Blackvegetable » 20 Nov 2022, 3:44 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Nov 2022, 3:44 pm

No, it doesn't,  duh....

Huey » 20 Nov 2022, 4:01 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Nov 2022, 4:01 pm

Nice try.  But an epic fail.  Plus, you have not posted anything from ATF certification letter.  I think you are afraid to.

“have changed the weapon basic design”….

Doesn’t say modified.  Is says CHANGED the basic design.

Plus, according to DOD The Colt AR Sporter and knock offs are not military assault weapons.  It was built and designed for civilians.

Huey » 19 Nov 2022, 9:32 am » wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2022, 9:32 am

This is more than a modification.  It is a whole new internal design: 

To prevent a civilian semi-automatic AR-15 from being readily converted for use with the select fire components, several features were changed. Parts changed include the lower receiver, bolt carrier, hammer, trigger, disconnector, and safety/mode selector. The semi-automatic bolt carrier has a longer lightening slot to prevent the bolt's engagement with an automatic sear. Due to a decrease in mass, the buffer spring is heavier. On the select-fire version, the hammer has an extra spur which interacts with the additional auto-sear that holds it back until the bolt carrier group is fully in battery, when the automatic fire is selected.[54] Using a portion of the select fire parts in a semi-automatic rifle will not enable a select fire option (this requires a registered part with the ATF). Lower receivers that are select-fire are identified by a pinhole above the safety/mode selection switch.[55][56][57][58] As designed by Colt the pins supporting the semi-auto trigger and hammer in the lower receiver are larger than those used in the military rifle to prevent interchangeability between semi-automatic and select-fire components.[59]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15_style_rifle#:~:text=As%20of%20September%2019%2C%202019,rifle%20across%20the%20firearms%20industry.

Game.  Set.  Match.

Huey » 20 Nov 2022, 4:09 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Nov 2022, 4:09 pm

@Blackvegetable  

Those are most of the changes in basic design.  Not a machine gun. I

Blackvegetable » 20 Nov 2022, 4:08 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Nov 2022, 4:08 pm

So the ATF said, yes, this modified ‘automatic rifle’

This is over.

You lost.

Blackvegetable » 20 Nov 2022, 4:12 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Nov 2022, 4:12 pm

It is a "modified automatic weapon", Sheilagh. 
Go get those stumps cauterized...

Huey » 20 Nov 2022, 4:18 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Nov 2022, 4:18 pm

Thatbis not what the ATF said.

They said this:

have changed the weapon in basic design to the extent that it is not a firearm in the machine category…”

You have a challenge to accept. Show in the letter where the ATF said that and I will take the rest of the year off.