Liberal Forum

FOS » 17 Nov 2022, 8:06 pm » wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2022, 8:06 pm

2) a country is legitimite if it is possible to be loyal to the state without being an enemy of its citizens.

Like China, Iran, and Israel ?

JinnMartini » 17 Nov 2022, 8:42 pm » wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2022, 8:42 pm

Like China, Iran, and Israel ?

Yes...of course

FOS » 17 Nov 2022, 2:08 pm » wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2022, 2:08 pm

well...its a question of scale, isnt it?

but managing such things requires a lot of nuance...because you need many roles for a successful human society. You cannot make a functional society where everyone is a genius. You need toilet cleaners, soldiers, farmers, etc

so the problem is more complicated than people might think, but not impossible.

Really, that simplifies the issue. I mean, think about it:

1. It takes all kinds;
2. Ya GOT all kinds.

So, no. It should NOT take a great deal of time to go from a **** gathering of poorly fed illiterates to a city-building super-state. Those with a passing knowledge of early civilizations know that virtually every ancient empire followed precisely that model. 2 or 3 centuries, 5 at the most, and ya went from illiteracy and poverty and shanties to monumental architecture and written records and international trade. The Sumerians, the Egyptians, the Greeks, the Romans - none of them broke that model. The chinee didn't, the aztecs, olmecs and mayans didn't. The aryans didn't and the jappos didn't. 

For that matter, far more recently, we went from the early middle ages (villages and serfs) to the late middle ages (cities and burghers) to the Renaissance (profoundly powerful bureaucracies and global empires) in a few centuries. 

FOS » 17 Nov 2022, 8:22 pm » wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2022, 8:22 pm

Well I don't understand what you hope to learn by constantly talking about it. Obviously you know that the reason I ever thought about jews is because I live in a trailer.

     

Selaphobia » 17 Nov 2022, 7:47 pm » wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2022, 7:47 pm

I find your fascination with Jews, fascinating. 

I'm fascinated with your fascination with his fascination. 

Tell me - what is it about his fascination that fascinates you? Seriously - your fascination is truly fascinating.

JinnMartini » 17 Nov 2022, 7:57 pm » wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2022, 7:57 pm

1 - Which country's 'foundational principles"  are not **** ?

2 -  What makes a country "legitimate" ?

Thanks.

Sierra Leone, Liberia, and Guinea stood up to the CDC (a private, for profit corporation with government imprimatur) and a mercenary army to protect its citizens by curing Ebola against the wishes of vax manufacturers. This happened under Obama forcing them to delay the scam they later foisted on us under Trump. They learned a lesson: Don't try this **** outside of a multi-ethnic state with deep divisions between the leaders and the ordinary citizens. 

FOS » 17 Nov 2022, 5:32 pm » wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2022, 5:32 pm

Look I can tell you are feeling very passionate about some need to fight me. But you simply are not understanding what point I made...so nothing you are saying is relevant at all. 

I suggest you simply reread my post and try harder to comprehend it.

Nope. You're adding a delusion about me to this silliness about districting.

The purpose of race balance in districting isn't anti-democratic. Rather, it is in the Founding spirit of a democratic society made around principles of fairness and decency. It was democracy absent those principles that impelled Virginia to go to war in 1861 against The United States. And democracy yesterday that resulted in the Virginia State Board of Education rejecting a Republican administration's proposed changes to elementary school history standards whitewashing this history. Democracy is a messy thing.

So, yes, racial headcounts are still necessary in redistricting.

 
 

SJConspirator » 17 Nov 2022, 7:13 pm » wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2022, 7:13 pm

he made a point in the OP.
If race doesn't matter, why all the concern for redistricting?...lame blahblah...  Now, it's your turn.
Can you make a Point?  Cuz you haven't yet.

 

...are you lame republicrat monetary ignoramuses aware of the term 'gerrymandering'?!?... it's been going on a loooooong time and the people who control the money control the politicians who control the gerrymandering...

...(((((((FOR ONCE)))))))) focus on the puppetmaster$, you lame monetary ignoramuses, and STFU about the puppet$/puppetry...... GET KNOWLEDGE, AUTHORITARDIANS!...     

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering

In representative democracies, gerrymandering (/ˈdʒɛrimændərɪŋ/, originally /ˈɡɛrimændərɪŋ/)[1][2] is the political manipulation of electoral district boundaries with the intent of creating undue advantage for a party, group, or socio-economic class within the constituency. The manipulation may consist of "cracking" (diluting the voting power of the opposing party's supporters across many districts) or "packing" (concentrating the opposing party's voting power in one district to reduce their voting power in other districts).[3] Gerrymandering can also be used to protect incumbents. Wayne Dawkins describes it as politicians picking their voters instead of voters picking their politicians.[4]......The primary goals of gerrymandering are to maximize the effect of supporters' votes and to minimize the effect of opponents' votes. A partisan gerrymander's main purpose is to influence not only the districting statute but the entire corpus of legislative decisions enacted in its path.[20]These can be accomplished in a number of ways:[21]

• "Cracking" involves spreading voters of a particular type among many districts in order to deny them a sufficiently large voting bloc in any particular district.[21] Political parties in charge of redrawing district lines may create more "cracked" districts as a means of retaining, and possibly even expanding, their legislative power. By "cracking" districts, a political party could maintain, or gain, legislative control by ensuring that the opposing party's voters are not the majority in specific districts.[22][23] For example, the voters in an urban area could be split among several districts in each of which the majority of voters are suburban, on the presumption that the two groups would vote differently, and the suburban voters would be far more likely to get their way in the elections...

 

....more for the blathering, puppet-sucking, trumptard-level nazis [and monetary ignoramuses]:

• "Hijacking" redraws two districts in such a way as to force two incumbents to run against each other in one district, ensuring that one of them will be eliminated.[21]
• "Kidnapping" moves an incumbent's home address into another district.[21] Reelection can become more difficult when the incumbent no longer resides in the district, or possibly faces reelection from a new district with a new voter base. This is often employed against politicians who represent multiple urban areas, in which larger cities will be removed from the district in order to make the district more rural.

These tactics are typically combined in some form, creating a few "forfeit" seats for packed voters of one type in order to secure more seats and greater representation for voters of another type. This results in candidates of one party (the one responsible for the gerrymandering) winning by small majorities in most of the districts, and another party winning by a large majority in only a few of the districts.[24] Any party that endeavors to make a district more favorable to voting for them based on the physical boundary is gerrymandering.

peepee » 18 Nov 2022, 9:41 am » wrote: ↑

18 Nov 2022, 9:41 am

....more for the blathering, puppet-sucking, trumptard-level nazis [and monetary ignoramuses]:

• "Hijacking" redraws two districts in such a way as to force two incumbents to run against each other in one district, ensuring that one of them will be eliminated.[21]
• "Kidnapping" moves an incumbent's home address into another district.[21] Reelection can become more difficult when the incumbent no longer resides in the district, or possibly faces reelection from a new district with a new voter base. This is often employed against politicians who represent multiple urban areas, in which larger cities will be removed from the district in order to make the district more rural.

These tactics are typically combined in some form, creating a few "forfeit" seats for packed voters of one type in order to secure more seats and greater representation for voters of another type. This results in candidates of one party (the one responsible for the gerrymandering) winning by small majorities in most of the districts, and another party winning by a large majority in only a few of the districts.[24] Any party that endeavors to make a district more favorable to voting for them based on the physical boundary is gerrymandering.

you are getting closer to the topic, but you have yet to connect the concept of race to these maps and districts.  You think there is no connection?  Then why is there so many people on NPR and elsewhere claiming there is?

SJConspirator » 18 Nov 2022, 9:47 am » wrote: ↑

18 Nov 2022, 9:47 am

Then why is there so many people on NPR and elsewhere claiming there is?

...those folks are stooooooooooopid f@ck puppet-sucking republicrat-level monetary ignoramuses just like you.... good for you!!!!   
 

jack » 18 Nov 2022, 5:22 am » wrote: ↑

18 Nov 2022, 5:22 am

Nope. You're adding a delusion about me to this silliness about districting.

The purpose of race balance in districting isn't anti-democratic. Rather, it is in the Founding spirit of a democratic society made around principles of fairness and decency. It was democracy absent those principles that impelled Virginia to go to war in 1861 against The United States. And democracy yesterday that resulted in the Virginia State Board of Education rejecting a Republican administration's proposed changes to elementary school history standards whitewashing this history. Democracy is a messy thing.

So, yes, racial headcounts are still necessary in redistricting.

so to be clear: you are admitting that people of different races will intrinsically have different interests.

FOS » 17 Nov 2022, 8:22 pm » wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2022, 8:22 pm

Well I don't understand what you hope to learn by constantly talking about it. Obviously you know that the reason I ever thought about jews is because I live in a trailer.

Garsh, Irving it must be so hard living in a trailer! I feel for you!
how did you ever get the name Irving? Its sounds sooo......Jooish!      

 
 

FOS » 18 Nov 2022, 11:19 am » wrote: ↑

18 Nov 2022, 11:19 am

so to be clear: you are admitting that people of different races will intrinsically have different interests.

To be clear, that is not for me or anyone to admit. Secondly, whether the interests are different intrinsically is not the issue. They have differences currently and historically.

jack » 18 Nov 2022, 11:50 am » wrote: ↑

18 Nov 2022, 11:50 am

To be clear, that is not for me or anyone to admit. Secondly, whether the interests are different intrinsically is not the issue. They have differences currently and historically.

japan and china have historical and cultural differences...

which is why (lol) they are different countries.

if china conquered japan would you call that an act of 'democracy'? what exactly do you think democracy is?

i was under the impression that most midwits like you would imagine that democracy was about a competition of ideas. THat is the only way to defend it as a legit form of government.

but you seem to be saying 'democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep voting on who will be dinner, and thats a good thing'.

really?

FOS » 18 Nov 2022, 11:56 am » wrote: ↑

18 Nov 2022, 11:56 am

japan and china have historical and cultural differences...

which is why (lol) they are different countries.

if china conquered japan would you call that an act of 'democracy'? what exactly do you think democracy is?

i was under the impression that most midwits like you would imagine that democracy was about a competition of ideas. THat is the only way to defend it as a legit form of government.

but you seem to be saying 'democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep voting on who will be dinner, and thats a good thing'.

really?

DEMOCRACY is an ideal! Its not an ideology per se. Just an ideal that people hold as they pretend to be free.  
 

nuckinfutz » 18 Nov 2022, 12:01 pm » wrote: ↑

18 Nov 2022, 12:01 pm

DEMOCRACY is an ideal! Its not an ideology per se. Just an ideal that people hold as they pretend to be free.

well what is even the ideal? the black community does not wish to share the white community...and the white community does not wish to serve the black community. 

thus the controversy over race and districting in the first place.

so the question asks itself: why should they both be subject to the same federal government?

that is not self determination. that is not freedom. and it is funny watching politicians waste so much labor and resources trying desperately to hold **** together and rule a people who are far to diverse and divided to create a functional society.

a circumstance, meanwhile, which was deliberately engineered and forced on us all.

FOS » 18 Nov 2022, 11:56 am » wrote: ↑

18 Nov 2022, 11:56 am

japan and china have historical and cultural differences...

which is why (lol) they are different countries.

if china conquered japan would you call that an act of 'democracy'? what exactly do you think democracy is?

i was under the impression that most midwits like you would imagine that democracy was about a competition of ideas. THat is the only way to defend it as a legit form of government.

but you seem to be saying 'democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep voting on who will be dinner, and thats a good thing'.

really?

The United States is populated by people of differing historical and cultural characteristics. Perhaps you should return to the sixth grade for some American history.
Anyway, what I "seem to be saying" to your dreary, larger than walnut size brain isn't what I said, or anything at all similar to what I said. Let's leave it at that. 
 
 
 

jack » 18 Nov 2022, 1:31 pm » wrote: ↑

18 Nov 2022, 1:31 pm

The United States is populated by people of differing historical and cultural characteristics. Perhaps you should return to the sixth grade for some American history.
Anyway, what I "seem to be saying" to your dreary, larger than walnut size brain isn't what I said, or anything at all similar to what I said. Let's leave it at that.

The population of the United States has changed DRASTICALLY...and deliberately...in simply the past few decades. 

Since you clearly admit that various races do not hold universalist values or interests, this transformation in thr united states can only be perceived as a genocidal attack upon white Americans. 

It has been justified by the elite by appealing to universalism. That race doesn't matter. 

But here you are admitting that race does matter...yet failing to see the atrocity that has occurred

FOS » 18 Nov 2022, 11:56 am » wrote: ↑

18 Nov 2022, 11:56 am

i was under the impression that most midwits like you would imagine that democracy was about a competition of ideas. THat is the only way to defend it as a legit form of government. ...

....what would a nazi f@ckwit [and monetary ignoramus] such as yourself have to offer as to 'a competition of ideas'? [about government]