Liberal Forum

Cannonpointer » 24 Nov 2022, 11:10 pm » wrote: ↑

24 Nov 2022, 11:10 pm

However high the rate is set, land value will drop proportionately.

It's automatic - accomplished by Our Most Beloved Lady of The Invisible Hand of The Market.

It would be against the interests of even the LEAST responsible officials to set the rate beyond the point of diminishing returns.

the problem is, people hear land tax and they immediately think of some outrageously oppressive government.

But we already tax land, arbitrarily.  LVT would simply put the taxation at the level of demand for that land.. as you said, guided by the hand of the market, not by whims of politicians and beaurocrats.

SJConspirator » 24 Nov 2022, 11:04 pm » wrote: ↑

24 Nov 2022, 11:04 pm

this is all I wanted, was for you to investigate the concept for 5 minutes.

if you still hate LVT and Geoism, you can **** all over it now and I won’t blame you, cuz at least you KNOW what it is your **** on lol.
 
And the devil is in the details.  And LVT has not always worked.  Hong Kong did great with it for 50 years, but in the last 10 years they made a mess of it IMO

I've got a small start on it. I'll be reading through the OP link in the morning along with the link CP provided. It will be a little like learning a musical instrument. Try to gain a broader view of the components and how those components work together...coupled with some discussion.

We'll see how it goes.
 
 

Cannonpointer » 24 Nov 2022, 10:27 pm » wrote: ↑

24 Nov 2022, 10:27 pm

Well, here's the thing about the thing.

The LVT is inevitably the most voluntary tax ever invented. NO ONE has to pay an LVT, ever. 

If the government sets the rate too high, no one will use the land. It sits - fallow. Once the land comes under ownership, the LVT is set, and the game is afoot. The only detail-devil is in the valuation itself. The municipality puts in a bus line to serve the area, or a train line, the value is gonna go up at the next valuation. The rate does not change - but the value does. 

If the valuation is set too high, there's flight, blight, and no winner - just losers across the board. Naturally, the valuation process will have appeals and arbitration built in, one assumes.

Yep...I think I already see what yer saying on a basic level. I'm going to review it more in the morning.  Thanx.  

roadkill » 25 Nov 2022, 3:44 am » wrote: ↑

25 Nov 2022, 3:44 am

Yep...I think I already see what yer saying on a basic level. I'm going to review it more in the morning.  Thanx.

Imagine you live in some backwater town, in a 100k house. You pay 2% tax per annum. The city values your home at 60k - they under-value to avoid disputes. That's 1200 bucks. The town goes to LVT. They break up you taxes into land tax and real estate tax. value your land at 18k and you house at 42. They tax your land ay 5%, and your home at half a percent. That's 900 for your land, and 210 for your real estate. Your taxes drop by 90 bucks. MOST residents would see that kind of break. Employers would likewise have their taxes broken up, and not raised. Who would pick up the slack is land speculators. Their bills would go up by more than double.

Where those speculators were scoffing at the cost of sitting on land, suddenly, their annual equity capture would be radically defrayed by taxes, and their financial interests would be best served by **** or getting off the pot. The city's costs of  providing services would barely change from the building boom that followed, as it would be in-fill, and the infrastructure is BUILT already. It's all gravy.

The regular joes who would eat it are the guys who have the pleasure of owing a city home with a double lot. It would suck for them. Take the example above. Their land tax would got to 1800 plus 210 for the house. They would have to make a decision: eat the higher taxes, or do something with the lot. Sell it, build on it, or stop paying the tax and let the city eventually seize it. The other regular joes who would such the pipe are guys whose house is way under-value for the neighborhood. Ya got a real ****, run down house on a nice lot. The thing is valued at 25. So, he's paying 500 bucks a year at 2%. NOW, he's paying 900 for the land and 35 bucks for the house lol. 

The things being punished by the LVT are thing the city doesn't really want. Double lots, shabby houses, vacant commercial/industrial spaces.

GHETTOBLASTER » 24 Nov 2022, 12:15 am » wrote: ↑

24 Nov 2022, 12:15 am

OK..SJC....my apologies.
Sounds like I don't know enough about this topic to be commenting...

Bluto doesn't know enough about any topic (outside of what makes one a racist/bigot ****) to be commenting on anything.
 

SJConspirator » 24 Nov 2022, 6:38 pm » wrote: ↑

24 Nov 2022, 6:38 pm

You don't have it right lol

LVT is a huge school of economics.  People studied it for years.  You're not going to sum it up in a paragraph.
 
Basically all the non-Jewish economists favored LVT or variants thereof at the turn of the century.  After 1913, they phased out of college curriculum the texts of the classical economists like Henry George. 

When you argue against LVT, you are arguing for high taxes.  That's one fact of it.
 

one sentence is better than one paragraph or one species becoming extinct making economic theory a universal "truth" within its population.

Contextual manifestation of hope, faith, charity in reward to obtain, maintain, sustain reasonable doubt in all 5 generation gaps living forward here where minority controls majority of society converses among all the people occupying space spontaneously here since conception specifically occupying space simultaneously alive until dead and decomposed by decay or digestion..

Philosophical 9 gates of Eternal Hell are lists above same as mayhem, madness, misery lives in hearts, minds, bodies, and souls of people performing as intellectual typecast people dying to prove stereotyping matters.

Cannonpointer » 24 Nov 2022, 11:16 pm » wrote: ↑

24 Nov 2022, 11:16 pm

Chi-coms. Whadderya gonnadu...

Reasonable doubt always maintains corruption forward. Doubt exists by suggesting what does, doesn't. And what never did, does. yin and yang principle.
Two negatives creates a positive means to an end not naturally conducted in evolving equally added reproductions forward here.

Cannonpointer » 24 Nov 2022, 9:11 pm » wrote: ↑

24 Nov 2022, 9:11 pm

Precisely. This is a weasel trying to get right without admitting WE were right. 

It's like how people respond to a turd. They can clean it up, or put a rug over it and pretend. He's a rug guy.

Why is it tRumper scum enjoy lying & putting fake words into the posts of others.  If our nation votes for a National LVT, then so be it.  

Meanwhile we can also shift all tax brackets up & off the backs of the working middle class & barely rich small business owners.  That is "cutting taxes" for the 99% of US.

supraTruth4 » 25 Nov 2022, 3:54 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Nov 2022, 3:54 pm

Why is it tRumper scum enjoy lying & putting fake words into the posts of others.  If our nation votes for a National LVT, then so be it.  

Meanwhile we can also shift all tax brackets up & off the backs of the working middle class & barely rich small business owners.  That is "cutting taxes" for the 99% of US.

Whatever rug boi. 

The higher Cali makes income taxes on high steppers, the more high steppers move to Texas, Florida, and Nevada. 
 

Cannonpointer » 24 Nov 2022, 9:37 pm » wrote: ↑

24 Nov 2022, 9:37 pm

Not at all. If you're way the **** out in the country surrounded by big tracts and few services, using a well and a septic tank, you're in no danger of being taxed off your land. It isn't "some bureaucrat" that sets the tax rate. It's the Invisible Hand of the Market - the Holy of Holies. 

If you're one of these freeloaders who sits on empty lots in cities, passively waiting for the pressures of the market (the productive activities of OTHERS) to create unearned income by making your lot worth a million bucks, then, yeah - **** you and your sense of entitlement. 

I live on 29 acres at present - nearest neighbor over half a mile away by road.

So you would be heavily taxed on 28 of those acres, providing you actually owned them, whether you put them to work or not.

Cannonpointer » 25 Nov 2022, 3:59 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Nov 2022, 3:59 pm

Whatever rug boi. 

The higher Cali makes income taxes on high steppers, the more high steppers move to Texas, Florida, and Nevada.

They are welcome to enjoy the oppressive humidity, skeeters & cockroaches.

supraTruth4 » 25 Nov 2022, 4:06 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Nov 2022, 4:06 pm

So you would be heavily taxed on 28 of those acres, providing you actually owned them, whether you put them to work or not.

No, not at all. They have no services. Their value has not been artificially inflated by the good efforts of my neighbors. They have no city water, no electric, no gas, no garbage pickup, no sewerage.

supraTruth4 » 25 Nov 2022, 4:09 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Nov 2022, 4:09 pm

They are welcome to enjoy the oppressive humidity, skeeters & cockroaches.

Yes - they are. Those other states WILL welcome them, as you say, when Cali chases them off.

You are correct. 

They are also welcome to avoid the woke silliness - race riots, looting, killing. 

If California would just stop being institutionally racist, you would not have the race riots. Look at Florida, Texas and Nevada. MORE blacks per capita - no race riots, because they do not practice institutional racism against their of-colored citizens.
 
 

Cannonpointer » 25 Nov 2022, 4:14 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Nov 2022, 4:14 pm

Yes - they are. Those other states WILL welcome them, as you say, when Cali chases them off.

You are correct. 

They are also welcome to avoid the woke silliness - race riots, looting, killing. 

If California would just stop being institutionally racist, you would not have the race riots. Look at Florida, Texas and Nevada. MORE blacks per capita - no race riots, because they do not practice institutional racism against their of-colored citizens.

"Killings?"  By gun deaths, 12.4 per capita for Florida & Texas vs 7.9 for California.

https://www.apetropics.com/lp/one-chews ... 57d16ce33c
 

supraTruth4 » 25 Nov 2022, 4:28 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Nov 2022, 4:28 pm

"Killings?"  By gun deaths, 12.4 per capita for Florida & Texas vs 7.9 for California.

https://www.apetropics.com/lp/one-chews ... 57d16ce33c

Yeah - Californians are fleeing to those area.

It appears they would rather be SHOT in Texas or Florida than be mugged and hivved and systematically discriminated against in California. 

People leave to avoid the high taxes and race riots.

Maybe you should focus on ending systemic discrimination, and let the mathematorians work out the taxes, Princess.

Cannonpointer » 25 Nov 2022, 5:28 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Nov 2022, 5:28 pm

Yeah - Californians are fleeing to those area.

It appears they would rather be SHOT in Texas or Florida than be mugged and hivved and systematically discriminated against in California. 

People leave to avoid the high taxes and race riots.

Maybe you should focus on ending systemic discrimination, and let the mathematorians work out the taxes, Princess.

No thanks, no 1 else has got it right yet.

Cannonpointer » 25 Nov 2022, 4:11 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Nov 2022, 4:11 pm

No, not at all. They have no services. Their value has not been artificially inflated by the good efforts of my neighbors. They have no city water, no electric, no gas, no garbage pickup, no sewerage.

So, there's the rub, valuations are arbitrary & hell,  you think 1 acre is  too much property.

supraTruth4 » 26 Nov 2022, 12:56 am » wrote: ↑

26 Nov 2022, 12:56 am

So, there's the rub, valuations are arbitrary & hell,  you think 1 acre is  too much property.

Both of these propositions are false. If valuations are "arbitrary" under LVT - and they most certainly are not, - then they are already arbitrary under real estate taxes. Therefore, no harm is done in this regard by switching to LVT.

Regarding your claim that I "think" an acre is "too much property," are you referring to ranches? Football stadiums? Too much property for WHAT, you ridiculous buffoon? And for WHOM, you ridiculous buffoon?

I can assure you that I anticipate the compounds of families like the Kennedys will be larger than the yards of average retirees living on a pension. The very idea that I have commented on how large some unknown stranger's parcel ought to be is ***-pulled and laughable, you simple ****.     
 

supraTruth4 » 26 Nov 2022, 12:49 am » wrote: ↑

26 Nov 2022, 12:49 am

Cannonpointer » 25 Nov 2022, 5:28 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Nov 2022, 5:28 pm

Maybe you should focus on ending systemic discrimination, and let the mathematorians work out the taxes, Princess.

No thanks, no 1 else has got it right yet.

Incorrect, ****.

Texas and Florida have CLEARLY surpassed California in "getting it right," as evidenced by their lack of annual looting and pillaging sprees by the of-colored community, you fapping blufftard.

CALIFORNIA is the state that cannot manage to stop behaving in a systemically racist fashion, as evidenced by its riot season. It is joined by the other white supremacist havens, Oregon and Washington. In contrast, Idaho appears to have an extremely complacent Niagara community.

When you **** fruitcakes on the left coast sort out how to keep your Naugahydes happy, as Texas and Florida manifestly have done, then you, too, can enjoy riotless Summers. Until then, racist - STOP PROJECTING your white supremacy onto others, and get busy figuring out how to deal with your Africanized Americans equitably - with freedom and justice for all.

supraTruth4 » 26 Nov 2022, 12:49 am » wrote: ↑

26 Nov 2022, 12:49 am

No thanks, no 1 else has got it right yet.

one projection mantras never get the whole evolving thing accurately only debating two sides of thinking beyond self contained by the moment here, not intellectually designed by anything thinking at all.

equal opposition of contract and expand, go up comes down, forward and reverse, in and out, inception to extinction, combined until eroded, conceived to decomposed.
spinning, orbiting, revolving, spiraling spontaneously going on simultaneously creating perpetual motion from simple magnetic push, pull of negatives attract, positives push apart induced into perpetual balancing by perpetual balancing results never the same universal total sum twice present.

Intellect makes choices, instincts navigate environment, intellect gives individual sense of proportionately here regardless the sole reproduced is asexual, male, female reproduction, 1 of2 parents, becomes 1 of 4 grandparent, 1 of 8 great grandparents, dies before being 1 of 16 great great grandparents.

Siblings that don't breed another generation become extinct, The DNA that added them changes each generation forward, each ancestor added since time is an immovable objective and evolving remains an irresistible force never leaving what was added the same total sum again.

Resistance is futile and realities never accept the self evident.