Liberal Forum

Skans » 03 Aug 2023, 2:38 pm » wrote: ↑

03 Aug 2023, 2:38 pm

Oh, I like reading the American Rifleman and appreciate their articles on some of the latest guns. Look forward to it actually.

I love my copy I get as a life member.

But the new ones cannot compare to when Elmer was editor.  Those had wonderful articles plus were jam packed with advertisements, and all ads had to be gun related.  Elmer had to try out the gadget or gun first.

Elmer slammed Colt in print, and he was a great friend of Bill Ruger.

And Elmer was right.  Colt kept making guns on the same tooling as 1873 while Ruger made a slew of new products all with lifetime guarantees that made Ruger a household name and Bill Ruger a wealthy man.

We’ve lived to see Ruger the largest arms maker on the earth, making firearms for responsible citizens in factories in the United States of America.

Bruce » 03 Aug 2023, 5:37 pm » wrote: ↑

03 Aug 2023, 5:37 pm

while Ruger made a slew of new products all with lifetime guarantees that made Ruger a household name and Bill Ruger a wealthy man.

We’ve lived to see Ruger the largest arms maker on the earth, making firearms for responsible citizens in factories in the United States of America.

I like Ruger guns.
 
 
 

Skans » 03 Aug 2023, 8:30 pm » wrote: ↑

03 Aug 2023, 8:30 pm

While I like the AC556, I am not a fan of Bill Ruger or his company.  I'll tell you why.  Ruger DID advertise that his guns came with a lifetime guaranty.  But, they don't.  I know for a fact that they will no longer service any AC556's.  You're on your own.  They won't replace parts, barrels or fix broken ones. So, Bill lied.  Ruger lied. And that sort of pisses me off.

I understand my Ruger Red Label 28 is no longer serviced by Ruger.  I’m on my own.

Ruger was eccentric as are most visionaries. 

His company has probably discontinued more models than Colt ever made.

The AC556 was a law enforcement select fire variant of the Mini 14, still in production.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_Mini-14





 

Bruce » 02 Aug 2023, 12:32 am » wrote: ↑

02 Aug 2023, 12:32 am

Bill Ruger made a near duplicate of the 1873 Colt Peacemaker in 1955 that was chambered in 45 Long Colt.  He then tried chambering his Blackhawk in 44 Magnum and they’d blow up.

So Ruger increased the size of his pistol, beefing up the  frame and increasing the cylinder size, which we still call the Ruger Super Blackhawk.

Until 1973 the Blackhawk was on a smaller, Colt sized frame and the Super Blackhawk a larger one.

In 1973, Ruger went over to one large magnum sized frame for both the regular and 44 Mag Super Black Hawk.

In 2009, Ruger announced the 44 Special Flattop which was made on the New Model Vaquero frame, which is Colt sized.

Only a 44 Special can safely launch 240-50 grain flat nose lead cast Keith bullets at 1,200 feet per second, using reloads of 2400 powder.  The 44 Mag case is 1/10” longer.  Four  more grains of 2400 only gain less than 200 feet per second and it requires a larger frame and cylinder than a 1873 Colt sized revolver, or it blows it up.  Plus 1,200 fps is about the limit for lead bullets.  More and it needs a jacket or bullet cup, and accuracy suffers.

The 44 Special case, is the most accurate handgun cartridge in history.  It’s less than one MOA in well made factory Rugers.

The 1873 style frame is by far the easiest style handgun to hit with. It dominates cowboy action shooting for that reason.

The genuine Colt 1873, while a beautiful work of art, cannot compare with the reliability of the modern Ruger.  The Ruger is a 1955 design and the Colt from 1873.

Your defensiveness is unappealing.
There are so many guns, long and short, that compete with each other in class, looks, features, price, etc. from many manufacturers. If you want to call a similar gun by another builder's name go ahead. Seems pretty dumb to me and firearm ignorant. So Google/copy/paste away to justify your opinion (if it's actually a real opinion). All I meant was Ruger doesn't make a Colt.

 
 PlumHollow
Your defensiveness is unappealing.
There are so many guns, long and short, that compete with each other in class, looks, features, price, etc. from many manufacturers. If you want to call a similar gun by another builder's name go ahead. Seems pretty dumb to me and firearm ignorant. So Google/copy/paste away to justify your opinion (if it's actually a real opinion). All I meant was Ruger doesn't make a Colt.

Their New Model Vaquero is very near an exact replica.


 
My 44 Special Flattops are improved, special run New Vaqueros.

Improvements

Zero aluminum

All chrome moly steel even shroud and plunger 

44 Special chambering 

Unique index system 

Unique base pin (Keith load proof)

Flat top frame 

Micro all steel sights

Plus, only the most experienced hands at Ruger touched them.  The first run was 2000.

It likely was the most accurate production big bore revolver in history.

It was a production version of Elmer Keith’s legendary 1928 custom Colt  Number 5, the Colt he shot a running wounded mule deer at 600 yards.

 Read all about Number 5 here

https://fieldethos.com/a-field-ethos-no ... 20century.
 

Bruce » 05 Aug 2023, 2:01 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2023, 2:01 pm

Their New Model Vaquero is very near an exact replica.

My 44 Special Flattops are improved, special run New Vaqueros.

Improvements

Zero aluminum

All chrome moly steel even shroud and plunger 

44 Special chambering 

Unique index system 

Unique base pin (Keith load proof)

Flat top frame 

Micro all steel sights

Plus, only the most experienced hands at Ruger touched them.  The first run was 2000.

It likely was the most accurate production big bore revolver in history.

It was a production version of Elmer Keith’s legendary 1928 custom Colt  Number 5, the Colt he shot a running wounded mule deer at 600 yards.

 Read all about Number 5 here

https://fieldethos.com/a-field-ethos-no ... 20century.

Whatever you say must be true if it was on the internet. Are all the part interchangeable with the same tolerances and quality controls? A few thousandths here and here can make a world of difference in feel, function, and price. It's not the same as Ruger makes a Colt. That's all I meant.
1911's were made by different manufacturers for WWII and didn't always interchange parts and those were meant to be basically the same gun.
 
 

 PlumHollow
Whatever you say must be true if it was on the internet. Are all the part interchangeable with the same tolerances and quality controls? A few thousandths here and here can make a world of difference in feel, function, and price. It's not the same as Ruger makes a Colt. That's all I meant.
1911's were made by different manufacturers for WWII and didn't always interchange parts and those were meant to be basically the same gun.

The  Ruger is way better in every way you’d measure what’s better.

The New Vaquero is a near duplicate of the Peacemaker in size, feel, appearance and in function.

If you read Elmer Keith “Sixguns” you’d know Bill Ruger set out to make a better Colt.

Elmer explained that Colt was using tooling from the Indian Wars to make Peacemakers in the atomic age with just two improvements, heat treated cylinders and a modern base pin instead of a screw.

First Bill Ruger investment cast the frames from chrome moly steel.  No case hardening needed or even possible.  The strength is off the charts better than a Colt.

Ruger barrels are cold hammer forged, from modern chrome moly steel.  Colt barrels and throats were infamously inconsistent and Elmer said it was a miracle if you got a good one out of the box, and he’d never seen one.  Every Ruger barrel and throat is perfect, to hundreds of thousandths of an inch, in addition to being vastly stronger

The 1873 Peacemaker internals kept gunsmiths in business..  Leaf springs, delicate sears, hand fitting, hammer mounted firing pins, and broken parts were so common the military insisted on spare parts with each box of Colts.  When they worked they worked, but for how long?

Ruger has had only one improvement since 1955, the 1973 transfer bar that allows safe carry of six rounds loaded. I doubt even one has ever broke anything inside  that cased it not to go bang.  If they did Ruger fixed it for free.

Buy a copy of Sixguns.  It’s also about the most entertaining of any gun book ever written, full of photos of Elmer and his cigar and ten gallon hat.



Elmer busts Colt better than I can.

And he’s right.  I owned a Colt Python once that spent more time in the shop than I shot it.

Maybe the brand new Pythons are to Ruger standards of reliability 

 
 

How long do you keep rimfire ammo laying around?
I had some pretty old stuff and used an inexpensive (but new) revolver to shoot it.
Many duds. I wondered if the hammer wasn't striking properly. Looked like a nice deep hit. So I rotated the rounds to "reshoot" them without any luck. A second fairly deep striker mark and got nothing.
New ammo seemed fine with that same gun. Any thoughts?

PlumHollow » 28 Aug 2023, 7:38 am » wrote: ↑

28 Aug 2023, 7:38 am

How long do you keep rimfire ammo laying around?
I had some pretty old stuff and used an inexpensive (but new) revolver to shoot it.
Many duds. I wondered if the hammer wasn't striking properly. Looked like a nice deep hit. So I rotated the rounds to "reshoot" them without any luck. A second fairly deep striker mark and got nothing.
New ammo seemed fine with that same gun. Any thoughts?

I still have a partial brick of some 1978 US Army Match .22 ammo I was told was standard velocity Winchester Super X.   It’s had 100% ignition with tack driving accuracy for 45 years.

Modern .22 ammo since the middle 1990s has came usually in 500 some round tubs, and all of it made since the election of a black man to the White House is some pretty sketchy stuff.

Since Obama we buy anything we can get, and a lot of it’s ****, 

Bruce » 28 Aug 2023, 11:23 am » wrote: ↑

28 Aug 2023, 11:23 am

I still have a partial brick of some 1978 US Army Match .22 ammo I was told was standard velocity Winchester Super X.   It’s had 100% ignition with tack driving accuracy for 45 years.

Modern .22 ammo since the middle 1990s has came usually in 500 some round tubs, and all of it made since the election of a black man to the White House is some pretty sketchy stuff.

Since Obama we buy anything we can get, and a lot of it’s ****,

So, when I said "any thoughts?" you really didn't have one. You can't actually believe this weirdo crap can you? Since the 90's and before. It used to come in little milk carton type containers. What happened in the 90's that changed .22 containers for you? Are you just messing with the thread?

PlumHollow » 08 Sep 2023, 8:48 pm » wrote: ↑

08 Sep 2023, 8:48 pm

So, when I said "any thoughts?" you really didn't have one. You can't actually believe this weirdo crap can you? Since the 90's and before. It used to come in little milk carton type containers. What happened in the 90's that changed .22 containers for you? Are you just messing with the thread?

I’ve been buying .22 ammo since I was ten in 1968.

I still have a Remington Peters can of bullets (long ago all shot up and replaced with leftovers) from about 1979  that might have been the first “bulk” marketing of .22 ammo loose in a box.  It was a special run.

Sometime in the late 80s Walmart started selling plastic tubs of Remington .22 Thunderbolt ammo.  It was pure ****.

By the 90s all three majors, Winchester, Remington and Federal were peddling bulk packaged ammo, and until Obama it wasn’t bad.

Since Obama they can and do sell anything that usually  goes bang in bulk boxes, down from 550 to 375 rounds, to keep  the price down.


If you want reliable ammo buy the $10 a box of fifty stuff.

Otherwise, it’s not your gun, the ammo isn’t old, it’s ****.

 

Bruce » 08 Sep 2023, 10:09 pm » wrote: ↑

08 Sep 2023, 10:09 pm

I’ve been buying .22 ammo since I was ten in 1968.

I still have a Remington Peters can of bullets (long ago all shot up and replaced with leftovers) from about 1979  that might have been the first “bulk” marketing of .22 ammo loose in a box.  It was a special run.

Sometime in the late 80s Walmart started selling plastic tubs of Remington .22 Thunderbolt ammo.  It was pure ****.

By the 90s all three majors, Winchester, Remington and Federal were peddling bulk packaged ammo, and until Obama it wasn’t bad.

Since Obama they can and do sell anything that usually  goes bang in bulk boxes, down from 550 to 375 rounds, to keep  the price down.

If you want reliable ammo buy the $10 a box of fifty stuff.

Otherwise, it’s not your gun, the ammo isn’t old, it’s ****.

So... Obama did, what?

PlumHollow » 10 Sep 2023, 9:23 am » wrote: ↑

10 Sep 2023, 9:23 am

So... Obama did, what?

My nasty father was a rifle instructor.
When he died years ago- I had BUCKET loads.
Of those 22 bullets.in the orange boxes? So heavy and so many- I couldn't lift it?
They were getting old- So I gave them away.
I thought they might explode?    I think i may have been had by the guys! LOL
nice dad- HOOT- never taught his daughter one thing about guns.   

 

PlumHollow » 10 Sep 2023, 9:23 am » wrote: ↑

10 Sep 2023, 9:23 am

So... Obama did, what?

Caused Republicans to stockpile ammo.

Since 2008 the majors can forget about quality control and run the machines as fast as they can.

Before Obama they had to worry if there were more than one misfire per brick.

PlumHollow » 01 Aug 2023, 10:35 am » wrote: ↑

01 Aug 2023, 10:35 am

I (sort of) read this without much interest. You really want an audience but say some weird crap. Ruger makes a Colt? Makes most of your post look like junk.

Anti-gunner Bruce is trying to yank everyone's chain.  I caught him pasting gibberish from the Ruger forums.  He just rearranges the words.  

LincolnNebraska » 20 Sep 2023, 5:42 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Sep 2023, 5:42 pm

Anti-gunner Bruce is trying to yank everyone's chain.  I caught him pasting gibberish from the Ruger forums.  He just rearranges the words.

I agree.

Bruce » 11 Sep 2023, 2:32 pm » wrote: ↑

11 Sep 2023, 2:32 pm

Caused Republicans to stockpile ammo.

Since 2008 the majors can forget about quality control and run the machines as fast as they can.

Before Obama they had to worry if there were more than one misfire per brick.

Prove it.
Or get the hell out of here.

The best I could determine is that before Republicans started stockpiling .22 rimfire ammunition in late 2008 the standard misfire rate for all non target .22 rounds was never more than one per brick with one in five bricks being the average.

Anecdotally, about 2001 I was in Jack First’s Gun Shop in Rapid City South Dakota, where I bought a Ruger Red Label 28 gauge for a thousand dollars, and while checking out there was a huge pile of Remington Golden solid points for $9.99 a box of 550.

I bought 20 boxes, and still have maybe three boxes..

If there was more than one misfire in the entire bunch can’t recall it. The nature of rimfire ammo is that even target ammo will on rare occasions misfire. Most of those will fire if repositioned.

Well stored .22 rimfire ammo in an Air conditioned and heated garage lasts an Indefinite period.

New ammo the last 14 years is **** compared with Pre 2009.
 

Every good hillbilly boy used to keep as much track of the price of an individual paper box of 50 .22 shells (yes they are cartridges but it’s pronounced Twenty Two Shells) as he did a gallon of gasoline.

The price depended on brand with Federal shorts being forty cents and Winchester Super X hollow point high speed long rifles being fifty five cents, in 1968, when Elmer Kieth was the Executive Vice President of the National Rifle Association.

Longs were still available.. I haven’t seen a new box of high speed longs since I was in high school in the seventies. By 1979 when all the majors  began charging over a dollar a box the only thing you could buy was high speed Long Rifles and high speed Shorts which were a nickel more.

I can’t count all the .22 rifles I’ve owned over the years.

But the most accurate and reliable .22 sporter I own is a .22 All American Ruger with the 22” barrel.



Ruger firearms are made in factories in the United States of America.

And if a Ruger needs fixing Ruger will fix it for free. 
 
 

Bruce » 08 Aug 2023, 1:06 pm » wrote: ↑

08 Aug 2023, 1:06 pm

The  Ruger is way better in every way you’d measure what’s better.

The New Vaquero is a near duplicate of the Peacemaker in size, feel, appearance and in function.

If you read Elmer Keith “Sixguns” you’d know Bill Ruger set out to make a better Colt.

Elmer explained that Colt was using tooling from the Indian Wars to make Peacemakers in the atomic age with just two improvements, heat treated cylinders and a modern base pin instead of a screw.

First Bill Ruger investment cast the frames from chrome moly steel.  No case hardening needed or even possible.  The strength is off the charts better than a Colt.

Ruger barrels are cold hammer forged, from modern chrome moly steel.  Colt barrels and throats were infamously inconsistent and Elmer said it was a miracle if you got a good one out of the box, and he’d never seen one.  Every Ruger barrel and throat is perfect, to hundreds of thousandths of an inch, in addition to being vastly stronger

The 1873 Peacemaker internals kept gunsmiths in business..  Leaf springs, delicate sears, hand fitting, hammer mounted firing pins, and broken parts were so common the military insisted on spare parts with each box of Colts.  When they worked they worked, but for how long?

Ruger has had only one improvement since 1955, the 1973 transfer bar that allows safe carry of six rounds loaded. I doubt even one has ever broke anything inside  that cased it not to go bang.  If they did Ruger fixed it for free.

Buy a copy of Sixguns.  It’s also about the most entertaining of any gun book ever written, full of photos of Elmer and his cigar and ten gallon hat.



Elmer busts Colt better than I can.

And he’s right.  I owned a Colt Python once that spent more time in the shop than I shot it.

Maybe the brand new Pythons are to Ruger standards of reliability

Ruger is apparently really good at making investment cast frames