Liberal Forum

murdock » 10 Feb 2025, 9:59 am » wrote: ↑

10 Feb 2025, 9:59 am

No round in the chamber means the gun cannot fire.
 

Not accurate.  A gun with no round chambered can fire.  While not immediately, it just means that you first have to chamber a round.

That's unloaded no matter how much whiny **** you spew. 

Semantics.  We're having a discussion about inaccurate verbiage.

Only an idiot carries an unloaded gun.

Whether a person carries with round chambered or not is up to them.  Personally, I tend to agree with you - carry a pistol with round chambered, otherwise carry a revolver.
 

Skans » 10 Feb 2025, 9:54 am » wrote: ↑

10 Feb 2025, 9:54 am

What is "unloanded"?  Depends on how you define it.  With a loaded magazine locked into a semi-auto gun, some would call that a "loaded" gun.  Some wouldn't.  With a round chambered - I typically call that "round chambered".  Not just "loaded".  "Israeli Carry" is a well known term in the gun community which means loaded magazine inserted, but no round chambered.  Just easier to say Israeli carry.

 

We all know the safety definition.

But legally it depends on the state.  Utah, for example, defines an unloaded firearm as one with an empty chamber and needing two mechanical actions to make it fire.

Skans » 10 Feb 2025, 10:26 am » wrote: ↑

10 Feb 2025, 10:26 am

Not accurate.  A gun with no round chambered can fire.  While not immediately, it just means that you first have to chamber a round.

Semantics.  We're having a discussion about inaccurate verbiage.

Whether a person carries with round chambered or not is up to them.  Personally, I tend to agree with you - carry a pistol with round chambered, otherwise carry a revolver.

Unchambered is unloaded. It can't fire.
 

*Huey » 10 Feb 2025, 11:05 am » wrote: ↑

10 Feb 2025, 11:05 am

We all know the safety definition.

But legally it depends on the state.  Utah, for example, defines an unloaded firearm as one with an empty chamber and needing two mechanical actions to make it fire.

Yes.  That has been specifically defined by a state.   But, how about a Single Action revolver?  That can be loaded, yet still require 2 mechanical actions to make it fire?
 

Skans » 10 Feb 2025, 1:36 pm » wrote: ↑

10 Feb 2025, 1:36 pm

Yes.  That has been specifically defined by a state.   But, how about a Single Action revolver?  That can be loaded, yet still require 2 mechanical actions to make it fire?
 

 

That's a good question.

Skans » 10 Feb 2025, 1:36 pm » wrote: ↑

10 Feb 2025, 1:36 pm

Yes.  That has been specifically defined by a state.   But, how about a Single Action revolver?  That can be loaded, yet still require 2 mechanical actions to make it fire?
 


 

This is what the law says about a loaded weapon:

76-10-502.  When weapon deemed loaded.
(1)For the purpose of this chapter, any pistol, revolver, shotgun, rifle, or other weapon described in this part shall be deemed to be loaded when there is an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile in the firing position.

(2)Pistols and revolvers shall also be deemed to be loaded when an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile is in a position whereby the manual operation of any mechanism once would cause the unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile to be fired.


(3)A muzzle loading firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinders.

I would guess since there is a round in the firing position it would be deemed loaded.  
 

*Huey » 10 Feb 2025, 2:37 pm » wrote: ↑

10 Feb 2025, 2:37 pm

This is what the law says about a loaded weapon:

76-10-502.  When weapon deemed loaded.
(1)For the purpose of this chapter, any pistol, revolver, shotgun, rifle, or other weapon described in this part shall be deemed to be loaded when there is an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile in the firing position.

(2)Pistols and revolvers shall also be deemed to be loaded when an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile is in a position whereby the manual operation of any mechanism once would cause the unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile to be fired.

(3)A muzzle loading firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinders.

I would guess since there is a round in the firing position it would be deemed loaded.

OMG!  Ok, what about this - A Browning Hi-Power, with a cartridge chambered, but hammer down.  The gun can't fire until the hammer is cocked and the trigger pulled.  The  cartridge would not technically be in the "firing position" until the hammer is pulled, right???
 

Skans » 10 Feb 2025, 3:26 pm » wrote: ↑

10 Feb 2025, 3:26 pm

OMG!  Ok, what about this - A Browning Hi-Power, with a cartridge chambered, but hammer down.  The gun can't fire until the hammer is cocked and the trigger pulled.  The  cartridge would not technically be in the "firing position" until the hammer is pulled, right???

In that scenario you have a round in firing position.

*Huey » 10 Feb 2025, 3:43 pm » wrote: ↑

10 Feb 2025, 3:43 pm

In that scenario you have a round in firing position.

Probably. 

Ok, here's another for you.  What if you have a loaded magazine inserted into a Glock, but the slide remains locked back. Two-step movement to fire the gun.  Hit the slide release and pull the trigger?
 

*Huey » 10 Feb 2025, 3:43 pm » wrote: ↑

10 Feb 2025, 3:43 pm

In that scenario you have a round in firing position.

Ok, I'm going to blow that law straight ta Hell.  I actually have a Tac-1 Carbine (made by Demro) that fires from an open bolt. Pre-'86.  Semi-auto.  Loaded magazine inserted into the gun.  No round chambered.  Trigger holds the entire bolt back.  Fixed firing pin on the bolt.  A round is ONLY chambered just before it goes "BANG".  It only takes a single pull of the trigger to make it chamber a round and then immediately fire.

So, under that law, I can carry any open-bolt gun, ready to fire, but it would be considered "unloaded".  


 
 

https://i.ibb.co/DHFBVyzh/birdman-rifle.jpg



https://ibb.co/v6WNwGVp
 

Skans » 10 Feb 2025, 4:28 pm » wrote: ↑

10 Feb 2025, 4:28 pm

Ok, I'm going to blow that law straight ta Hell.  I actually have a Tac-1 Carbine (made by Demro) that fires from an open bolt. Pre-'86.  Semi-auto.  Loaded magazine inserted into the gun.  No round chambered.  Trigger holds the entire bolt back.  Fixed firing pin on the bolt.  A round is ONLY chambered just before it goes "BANG".  It only takes a single pull of the trigger to make it chamber a round and then immediately fire.

So, under that law, I can carry any open-bolt gun, ready to fire, but it would be considered "unloaded".  

Remember, you have to make TWO mechanical moves to make the rifle fire with an empty chamber.  In your scenario you only have  one.  IF the bolt was forward than you have to make two.  

*Huey » 11 Feb 2025, 7:56 am » wrote: ↑

11 Feb 2025, 7:56 am

Remember, you have to make TWO mechanical moves to make the rifle fire with an empty chamber.  In your scenario you only have  one.  IF the bolt was forward than you have to make two.

I'm gonna have to think on that some more....
 

My wife bought me one of these last week.


 

https://ibb.co/Gfs4PKTv

CPL question:

If I am driving, have CPL, hit a deer that's obviously injured but not dead,
can I put it out of its misery?

I asked a sheriff about this and he didn't know a direct answer. There are mitigating circumstances.
Is it near homes? Is it in a ditch? On pavement? Rural or city? Etc.
I said "put it out of its misery" and he said that has to be balanced against risk.
But what about it wandering out into traffic, says I. He ended up saying call 911 and don't risk your CPL.

What do you think?

Skans » 14 Feb 2023, 9:57 am » wrote: ↑

14 Feb 2023, 9:57 am

I think that's called "Israeli Carry".

It's also called unloaded.

murdock » 04 Mar 2025, 11:19 am » wrote: ↑

04 Mar 2025, 11:19 am

It's also called unloaded.

It is what it is.  I don't consider a gun with a full magazine loaded into the gun, but no round chambered "unloaded". 

In fact, the Federal and most State laws would back me up on this.  Under federal law, a firearm is typically considered "unloaded" when the chamber is clear, and the magazine is removed or empty. In some states, the definition may go further to require that the firearm not be capable of being readily fired, such as ensuring that the weapon is not in a condition where a round could be quickly chambered.

In actuality, it is a loaded handgun, without a round chambered, i.e. "Israeli Carry".  There's a reason why this condition was given this name. It more accurately defines the condition of the gun.

 
 

Skans » 04 Mar 2025, 11:44 am » wrote: ↑

04 Mar 2025, 11:44 am

It is what it is.  I don't consider a gun with a full magazine loaded into the gun, but no round chambered "unloaded". 

In fact, the Federal and most State laws would back me up on this.  Under federal law, a firearm is typically considered "unloaded" when the chamber is clear, and the magazine is removed or empty. In some states, the definition may go further to require that the firearm not be capable of being readily fired, such as ensuring that the weapon is not in a condition where a round could be quickly chambered.

In actuality, it is a loaded handgun, without a round chambered, i.e. "Israeli Carry".  There's a reason why this condition was given this name. It more accurately defines the condition of the gun.

If it can't fire it's not unloaded. No matter what labels they apply to it.
When I carry a pistol it's got a round chambered. And I don't go for that macho open carry ****. I don't want anyone to know I'm armed.
 

https://youtube.com/shorts/S4BoomZQPEQ? ... VfDO7QpIP6

Skans » 10 Feb 2025, 9:54 am » wrote: ↑

10 Feb 2025, 9:54 am

What is "unloanded"?  Depends on how you define it.  With a loaded magazine locked into a semi-auto gun, some would call that a "loaded" gun.  Some wouldn't.  With a round chambered - I typically call that "round chambered".  Not just "loaded".  "Israeli Carry" is a well known term in the gun community which means loaded magazine inserted, but no round chambered.  Just easier to say Israeli carry.

Only fools carry a pistol without a round chambered. Try loading a round in the chamber with one hand. Israeli carry is stupid.