Liberal Forum

Huey » 20 Jan 2023, 11:36 am » wrote: ↑

20 Jan 2023, 11:36 am

For those unfamiliar with the idea, the tax proposal is a doozy, even by GOP standards. The plan, championed by Republican Rep. Buddy Carter of Georgia, calls for scrapping effectively all federal taxes — income taxes, corporate taxes, Social Security payroll taxes, estate taxes, et al. — and permanently shuttering the Internal Revenue Services.

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-sho ... -rcna66693

I think consumption taxes are self defeating, you want less of something tax it. I don't see where less consumption would help.
 

Cedar » 20 Jan 2023, 11:59 am » wrote: ↑

20 Jan 2023, 11:59 am

I think consumption taxes are self defeating, you want less of something tax it. I don't see where less consumption would help.

Alot of things are taxed with a state sales tax and that doesn't reduce consumption.  



Not that I'm for this tax at all. 

Justthetruth » 20 Jan 2023, 11:58 am » wrote: ↑

20 Jan 2023, 11:58 am

In the 1950s and 1960s the 91% tax was to pay for world war 2 it wasn't that high because we really wanted them that high.  

Sort of like the income tax came about to pay for world war 1.

91% ?????? can you prove it was that high back then?

FJB » 20 Jan 2023, 12:01 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jan 2023, 12:01 pm

91% ?????? can you prove it was that high back then?

Sure.

Justthetruth » 20 Jan 2023, 12:02 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jan 2023, 12:02 pm

Sure.

show it

FJB » 20 Jan 2023, 12:03 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jan 2023, 12:03 pm

show it

The top marginal tax rate in 1960 was 91%, which applied to income over $200,000 (for single filers) or $400,000 (for married filers) – thresholds which correspond to approximately $1.5 million and $3 million, respectively, in today's dollars. Approximately 0.00235% of households had income taxed at the top rate.Sep 29, 2011

Justthetruth » 20 Jan 2023, 12:00 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jan 2023, 12:00 pm

Alot of things are taxed with a state sales tax and that doesn't reduce consumption.  

Not that I'm for this tax at all.

You're talking to someone that drives to Delaware for big ticket purchases.
 
You can also reference Bush's luxury tax that put many boat builders out of business.

FJB » 20 Jan 2023, 12:03 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jan 2023, 12:03 pm

show it

The top marginal tax rate in 1960 was 91%, which applied to income over $200,000 (for single filers) or $400,000 (for married filers) – thresholds which correspond to approximately $1.5 million and $3 million, respectively, in today's dollars. Approximately 0.00235% of households had income taxed at the top rate.Sep 29, 2011
[img]data:image/png;base64,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[/img]
https://taxfoundation.org › some-his...Some Historical Tax Stats - Tax Foundation

Justthetruth » 20 Jan 2023, 11:41 am » wrote: ↑

20 Jan 2023, 11:41 am

So it takes the social security away.

No, the SS tax. 

calls for scrapping effectively all federal taxes — income taxes, corporate taxes, Social Security payroll taxes, estate taxes, et al. — and permanently shuttering the Internal Revenue Services.

Justthetruth » 20 Jan 2023, 11:42 am » wrote: ↑

20 Jan 2023, 11:42 am

So it take Medicare and social security out. 

Something that poor seniors rely on daily.

Just the taxes.  

How many SOKs you got VG?

A couple of decades ago I saw a proposal for a national VAT structured in a way that would not be "overly onerous" (their words) on low income earners and the lower middle class.  I included a complete elimination of the IRS and federal income taxes and had several exemptions from the national VAT;

All food items except what they referred to as elite items such as lobster, caviar, truffles, premium grade meats (anything above USDA Prime such as Wagyu).
All heating/cooling fuels for residential properties.
Automobiles with a MSRP higher than the US median price (currently $50k).
Gasoline and diesel fuel (except for existing federal taxes)
All clothing/shoes priced more than $150 (they put the cutoff at $75...I adjusted).

Those are the standout items they exempted.  There were others that they considered essential for everyday life of the average person.  While an average family would be able to purchase a decent pair of something like basketball shoes for a kid without paying a national VAT, all the cost of shoes like Gucci, Christian Louboutin, Jimmy Choo, etc. would be taxed.  For families where mass transit is not available, a basic vehicle would be exempt but the BMW, Mercedes, Bugatti, etc. would be taxed.  All recreational vehicles (ATV, watercraft, etc.) would be taxed.

A simple national VAT would be a disaster, but with careful thought and the proper structure it could work.  People forget it would capture income paid in cash and illegal incomes because criminals spend money.  It would, however, encourage barter as a way to get around the sales tax.  Currently barter is not a material portion of the economy but a national VAT could change that.  The problem with "selling" the idea to the voters is some (mostly liberals) would omit important parts and lie about the proposal to scare people.


 

Huey » 20 Jan 2023, 12:11 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jan 2023, 12:11 pm

Just the taxes.  

How many SOKs you got VG?

Just a heads up.

Don't click justaliar's links. They have cooties.

Don't ask me how I know.
​​​
 

RedheadedStranger » 20 Jan 2023, 12:13 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jan 2023, 12:13 pm

Just a heads up.

Don't click justaliar's links. They have cooties.

Don't ask me how I know.
​​​

No they don't. 
 

RedheadedStranger » 20 Jan 2023, 12:13 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jan 2023, 12:13 pm

Just a heads up.

Don't click justaliar's links. They have cooties.

Don't ask me how I know.
​​​

Don't ask him how he knows because he can't know because I don't know enough about computers to do anything like that. 

So it takes out social security and Medicare.

So everything that the working poor relies on to survive after they get too old to work.

Like I've always said.

The Republicans don't want lower taxes..

They want lower taxes on their rich *** donors.

Justthetruth » 20 Jan 2023, 12:19 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jan 2023, 12:19 pm

So it takes out social security and Medicare.

So everything that the working poor relies on to survive after they get too old to work.

consumption taxes are never popular

people are used to paying income tax, and a lot of us look forward to our tax returns 

reduce that burden if you want to make people happy 

but to just add 23% to 30% on top of sales tax on every purchase and every service is gonna hurt a lot of people on fixed or low incomes 

not to mention the 80% of working Americans that live paycheck to paycheck 

and get rid of estate and gift taxes for the people at the top?  … the ones this consumption tax will barely effect?

good luck with that

Justthetruth » 20 Jan 2023, 12:19 pm » wrote: ↑

20 Jan 2023, 12:19 pm

So it takes out social security and Medicare.

So everything that the working poor relies on to survive after they get too old to work.
 

Show us where you see that in the link you posted.
 

Huey » 20 Jan 2023, 11:36 am » wrote: ↑

20 Jan 2023, 11:36 am

For those unfamiliar with the idea, the tax proposal is a doozy, even by GOP standards. The plan, championed by Republican Rep. Buddy Carter of Georgia, calls for scrapping effectively all federal taxes — income taxes, corporate taxes, Social Security payroll taxes, estate taxes, et al. — and permanently shuttering the Internal Revenue Services.

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-sho ... -rcna66693

What a great Idea!!

As we CUT government spending by over $13.7 BILLION the IRS spends annually, and eliminate ALL added money they cry for.

PLUS you get to take home 100% of what you MAKE and you only pay taxes if and when you spend money!! Compare that to today, losing over 20-30% in PAYROLL/INCOME taxes every paycheck!!

And these "rich" will pay their fair share since they always SPEND MORE THAN WORKING PEOPLE SPEND!! for everything.

Oh, and I forgot that there would be NO MORE LOOPHOLES for anyone making any amount of money!! EVERYONE is treated EQUALLY UNDER THE LAW!!
 
 

Justthetruth » 20 Jan 2023, 11:47 am » wrote: ↑

20 Jan 2023, 11:47 am

Exactly. 

Id like to only pay 750 and devalue my property every year like trump does..
 

So then you SUPPORT the National Sales Tax, so that EVERYONE pays into the system regardless of how much your business LOSES each year since NONE of that LOSS is a "write off"!! ALL of that goes away,. SFB2