Liberal Forum

RichClem » 26 Jul 2014 10:21 am » wrote: Hey, great job at ignoring my point and bleating more endless bulls***.

Read the last sentence again and respond to it.

A Communist country cannot have a strong, innovative economy. A truly Communist country in fact will be so impoverished, so lacking in incentive, that its citizens will starve to death in massive numbers, as the Chinese did by many millions under Mao until the agricultural sector was allowed considerable free market reform under Deng Tsao Peng.

You have no more grasp about Communism than you do the Free Market or Singapore or much of anything about Economics and politics.

Amen, brother. Praise Capital! Praise it's holy name!

You are uttering faith based arguments.

I have prayed about what you are claiming, and the Wood Nymph of Lusterbury gave me a vision - and in the vision, a turd was coming out of your mouth, and the turd never ended. It came out of your mouth forever, in a never ending stream of turd.

So I have to thank your for your tracts and your "share," but we already have our own religion in the Pointer home, and it's based on Dallas Cowboys football and long necked Budweisers.

Cannonpointer » 26 Jul 2014 10:20 am » wrote: Gosh, Clem - just one post ago, capitalism was only an economic system and had nothing to do with political systems.

Holy crap, how do you manage to bungle almost everything you touch?

The two are inter-related, but that doesn't mean you can make stupid and/or dishonest claims like how public beatings are part of Free Market policy.

That's so absurd most moonbats wouldn't fall for it.

But about my claim, free market policies lead to prosperity, which calms populist passions. It establishes institutions, associations and relationships, that are integral to successful democracy.

Just like Chile became a prosperous democracy, the model of success for all of Latin America.

You need only look at the facts of Scandanavia socialism. Their poverty rates are the lowest in the civilized world.
But a funny thing....check the poverty rates of Scandanvians living here....it's half the national level and about the
same of that in Scandanavia. Why is that? Could it be work ethics?

Other interesting facts on Scandanavian socialism can be found here: http://www.libsdebunked.com/socialism/s ... -argument/

Bottom line....modern day socialism cannot survive without capitalism....

Cannonpointer » 26 Jul 2014 10:27 am » wrote: Amen, brother. Praise Capital! Praise it's holy name!

You are uttering faith based arguments.

I have prayed about what you are claiming, and the Wood Nymph of Lusterbury gave me a vision - and in the vision, a turd was coming out of your mouth, and the turd never ended. It came out of your mouth forever, in a never ending stream of turd.

So I have to thank your for your tracts and your "share," but we already have our own religion in the Pointer home, and it's based on Dallas Cowboys football and long necked Budweisers.

"Faith based arguments?" That's what you call accepted history about China's mass starvation? The utter primitive quality and nature of almost any production in truly Communist countries?

I love psychotic moonbat humor.

Ever seen a satellite picture of night time North Korea, the most Communist county on Earth?

Cannonpointer » 26 Jul 2014 10:27 am » wrote:I have prayed about what you are claiming, and the Wood Nymph of Lusterbury gave me a vision - and in the vision, a turd was coming out of your mouth, and the turd never ended. It came out of your mouth forever, in a never ending stream of turd.

So I have to thank your for your tracts and your "share," but we already have our own religion in the Pointer home, and it's based on Dallas Cowboys football and long necked Budweisers.

.

It's just so sad to see a moonbat melt down into a puddle of ugly rhetoric and bulls***.

But you prefer doing that to accepting obvious reality.

RichClem » 26 Jul 2014 10:26 am » wrote: How did they get the bananas cheaper, moonbat? Almost certainly by establishing a Cartel, which isn't Free Market.

Gosh, Clem - ya THINK?

Would a capitallst corporation REALLY stoop to non-free market means, just to make an extra buck?

I hope you're prepared to back that cjarge up, because this country has defamation laws.

RichClem » 26 Jul 2014 10:26 am » wrote:And no, overthrowing a government isn't an example of Free Market Capitalism.

So, Dole broke the faith - strayed from the pack - lost its way in a wilderness of brutal statist tactics to improve its bottom line? Watch p- some jerk will come along and blame capitalism for Dole's behavior, when Dole was CLEARLY violating the Capitalist Creed, "never not to do the things never to not be never done."

RichClem » 26 Jul 2014 10:26 am » wrote:It's an example of Crony Capitalism, where Big Business and Big Government work together to screw the little guy, practiced mostly by Democrats.

I SEE. So those are DEMOCRATS in Singapore? No WONDER there's so much unfreedomyness, in the very shadow of such freedomocity! NOW I GET IT.

Thanks, Clem. CAPITALISM doesn't become crony capitalism of its own volition. DEMOCRATS make it happen. It wasn't really DOLE that wanted the federal government to install tinpot dictators so it could abuse entire farming communities. DEMOCRATS made them do it. Democrats in a blue dress!

RichClem » 26 Jul 2014 10:30 am » wrote:
Holy crap, how do you manage to bungle almost everything you touch?

The two are inter-related, but that doesn't mean you can make stupid and/or dishonest claims like how public beatings are part of Free Market policy.

That's so absurd most moonbats wouldn't fall for it.

But about my claim, free market policies lead to prosperity, which calms populist passions. It establishes institutions, associations and relationships, that are integral to successful democracy.

Just like Chile became a prosperous democracy, the model of success for all of Latin America.

Chile is freedomy now? Did Pinochet make it that way - or did the leftists that supplanted him do that?

But come, Clem, let us not go off on ANOTHER of your hare-brained goose-hunts for the golden orb of capitalism. Let's stick with Sigapore - the second most freedomy on earth. With THAT MUCH FREEDOMINESS, why is the political state not a democracy by now? How long should we give it, before we fall away and become unbelievers, oh Lighter of the Way and Keeper of the Faith?

rayj » 26 Jul 2014 10:32 am » wrote:You need only look at the facts of Scandanavia socialism. Their poverty rates are the lowest in the civilized world.
But a funny thing....check the poverty rates of Scandanvians living here....it's half the national level and about the
same of that in Scandanavia. Why is that? Could it be work ethics?

Other interesting facts on Scandanavian socialism can be found here: http://www.libsdebunked.com/socialism/s ... -argument/

Bottom line....modern day socialism cannot survive without capitalism....

Don't be lazy. Ask the natural question: Is the converse equally true? Can capitalism survive without a welfare state - and if so, why has it never tried?

And don't be too quick to overlook that your utterance employs not one but TWO terms on which no consensus has been reached - OR CAN BE, THANKS TO CLEM'S FLIP-FLOPPNG - as to definitions.

RichClem » 26 Jul 2014 10:33 am » wrote:
"Faith based arguments?" That's what you call accepted history about China's mass starvation? The utter primitive quality and nature of almost any production in truly Communist countries?

I love psychotic moonbat humor.

Ever seen a satellite picture of night time North Korea, the most Communist county on Earth?

I need not defend communism, son. You are the one making a claim - a claim based on faith.

You are arguing that China CAN'T be "communist" on account of after we gave them our tool and die industry, built them factories, shut down our competing factories and showed them how to use the technology their espionage system was unable to steal- but traitorous republicans handed the communists free of charge, - after all of that, and after teaching them logistics and helping them secure shipping, and after giving them unfettered access to the world's largest market for the sale of their slave made goods - after all of that, they did okay.

They done good, so they ain't commies. If you give them free technology and train them to use it, then build factories for them and hand them a consumer market, they can do alright. Dang it, they done us proud - they're not red! They're RED, WHITE AND BLUE!

Moron. Go change your skirt - it got wet when you read that.

Cannonpointer » 26 Jul 2014 10:40 am » wrote: Chile is freedomy now? Did Pinochet make it that way - or did the leftists that supplanted him do that?

Thanks for admitting how little you know about important history, particularly about Free Markets.

Pinochet did, when a Chicago U educated economist had the courage to recommend Free Market policies. Everyone else in the room apparently was intimidated and aghast.

Economic policies were "liberalized," then as the country became the most economically successful in all of Latin America, democracy was restored.

The Leftists are typically trying to undo the policies that worked; to apply Socialistic policies.

RichClem » 26 Jul 2014 10:52 am » wrote:
Thanks for admitting how little you know about important history, particularly about Free Markets.

Pinochet did, when a Chicago U educated economist had the courage to recommend Free Market policies. Everyone else in the room apparently was intimidated and aghast.

Economic policies were "liberalized," then as the country became the most economically successful in all of Latin America, democracy was restored.

The Leftists are typically trying to undo the policies that worked; to apply Socialistic policies.

That's a wonderful tale, Clem. He could have used an attorney like you when he was detained by Spain for crimes against humanity.

Funny how all the freedomy guys that you admire end up being brutal dictators that disappear citizens, kid. Funny how whenever this vaunted "free market capitalism" gets its hooks into a country, folks start getting bullied by right wing goons and put into torture dungeons.

You have now recommended Singapore and Pinochet as models of capitalist behavior. You gotta be some kind of idiot savant, Clem. I wish we knew what you're good at.

Cannonpointer » 26 Jul 2014 10:49 am » wrote: I need not defend communism, son. You are the one making a claim - a claim based on faith.

You are arguing that China CAN'T be "communist" on account of after we gave them our tool and die industry, built them factories, shut down our competing factories and showed them how to use the technology their espionage system was unable to steal- but traitorous republicans handed the communists free of charge, - after all of that, and after teaching them logistics and helping them secure shipping, and after giving them unfettered access to the world's largest market for the sale of their slave made goods - after all of that, they did okay.

They done good, so they ain't commies. If you give them free technology and train them to use it, then build factories for them and hand them a consumer market, they can do alright. Dang it, they done us proud - they're not red! They're RED, WHITE AND BLUE!

Moron. Go change your skirt - it got wet when you read that.

Don't bore me by repeating the same tired bull**** you've written before.

Even if we'd built factories for the Soviets, they couldn't have properly utilized them and never expanded much beyond those.

You clearly have no idea about either Communism's fatal flaws or what's necessary in a Capitalist economy. You're bleating from ignorance, both personal and intellectual. You live in an intellectual desert.

China's developing somewhat free market economy has a vast free sector built largely on its own, innovated to a great degree on its own, developed largely on its own.

Truly Communist countries cannot have strong economies. That's not "faith based." It's perfectly obvious from knowing actual history and understanding Economics and business.

Cannonpointer » 26 Jul 2014 10:57 am » wrote: That's a wonderful tale, Clem. He could have used an attorney like you when he was detained by Spain for crimes against humanity.

Funny how all the freedomy guys that you admire end up being brutal dictators that disappear citizens, kid. Funny how whenever this vaunted "free market capitalism" gets its hooks into a country, folks start getting bullied by right wing goons and put into torture dungeons.

You have now recommended Singapore and Pinochet as models of capitalist behavior. You gotta be some kind of idiot savant, Clem. I wish we knew what you're good at.

Awww, it's just so cute when you pathetically try to smear me with obvious lies.

A few moonbats might even fall for it, but no one with an ounce of common sense or integrity.

"Funny how all the freedomy guys that you admire end up being brutal dictators that disappear citizens?" A blatant lie that exposes your deeply ugly and psychotic character.


And as usual, you have it backwards. Pinochet's repression happened first to prevent the country from becoming a Communist dictatorship.

Years afterwards he applied Free Market policies.

RichClem » 26 Jul 2014 10:58 am » wrote:
Don't bore me by repeating the same tired bull**** you've written before.

Words for you to heed, moron. You are hiding from the real issues by bloviating religious dogma about what communism can never do - an unverifiable assertion intended to throw chaff for the purpose of distracting from your incompetence to explain away the political brutality in Singapore which - according to your claims and precepts - ought not to be there.

Your own example proves your faith corrupt and stupid - and more bloviating about what Communism is or is not capable of will not redeem your stupid and utterly debunked faith, child. SINGAPORE IS WHAT IT IS: A BRUTAL, AUTHORITARIAN CAPITALIST **** HOLE.

Now, speak to the topic - SINGAPORE, - or **** off. I am not going to endlessly debate your childish and unverifiable assertions about communism's capacities under various hypothetical scenarios. I DO NOT CARE what communism is capable of - I AM NOT A COMMUNIST. I do not care whether today's China is "pure" communist, most;ly" communist or "recovering" communist. You will never convince me that giving the chinese - EVE N IF THEY ARE NOW FULL BLOWN CAPITALISTS - our tool and die technology and actual equipment, along with building them factories and giving them access to our markets, was patriotic - or anything less than treason.

So we will agree to disagree about the knife you and your kind put in America's back out of deeply felt platonic love for coolie workers. And we will agree to disagree that communism causes the loss of language as a means of expression, reducing people in its thrall to grunting and rock-throwing.

We are not arguing the nature of communism, you hack. I am not a proponent of communism. We are arguing the nature of CAPITALISM - and you are declining to defend it - you are essentiially admitting you CANNOT defend it, by bloviating against a system that no one is defending - ultimately resorting to the cheap gambit of making claims so preposterous they bait one into a response, giving you the opportunity to work your clem tricks and divert the subject away from the issue you wish to avoid: SINGAPORE. CAPITALISM. The things you cannot defend but will not stop bootlicking for.

RichClem » 26 Jul 2014 11:03 am » wrote:
Awww, it's just so cute when you pathetically try to smear me with obvious lies.

A few moonbats might even fall for it, but no one with an ounce of common sense or integrity.

"Funny how all the freedomy guys that you admire end up being brutal dictators that disappear citizens?" A blatant lie that exposes your deeply ugly and psychotic character.

And as usual, you have it backwards. Pinochet's repression happened first to prevent the country from becoming a Communist dictatorship.

Years afterwards he applied Free Market policies.

Gosh - you actually admitted that your hero was a repressive tyrant, before he was washed in the blood of Capitalism and redeemed by the grace of the Market?

Progress.

Now, let's discuss why Singapore is not the democratic utopia that it should be, full of healthy, happy workers whose contracts are all voluntary and mutually beneficial, and whose rights are respected by a government that need not fear its citizens, providing them as it does a sunny and capitalistic environment in which to go about the manly business of becoming millionaires.

Cannonpointer » 26 Jul 2014 11:18 am » wrote:Words for you to heed, moron. You are hiding from the real issues by bloviating religious dogma about what communism can never do - an unverifiable assertion intended to throw chaff for the purpose of distracting from your incompetence to explain away the political brutality in Singapore which - according to your claims and precepts - ought not to be there.

WTF? When have I ever claimed the little violence the Singapore government "ought not to be there?" What, an application of Free Market policy is supposed to magically and instantly cure any flaw a country has?

You're just babbling bulls***, as usual.

And not that you ever respond directly to what I wrote:

Even if we'd built factories for the Soviets, they couldn't have properly utilized them and never expanded much beyond those.

You clearly have no idea about either Communism's fatal flaws or what's necessary in a Capitalist economy. You're bleating from ignorance, both personal and intellectual. You live in an intellectual desert.


China's developing somewhat free market economy has a vast free sector built largely on its own, innovated to a great degree on its own, developed largely on its own.

Truly Communist countries cannot have strong economies. That's not "faith based." It's perfectly obvious from knowing actual history and understanding Economics and business.

Now, speak to the topic - SINGAPORE, - or **** off.

I have, over and over and over and over and over, but you always go magically blind or have a psychotic episode.

No country is purely Socialist or purely Free Market Capitalist. That's why Heritage has an index, i.e. a ranking.

Singapore is less Socialist than likely every other country on the planet except one.

How will a lying troll react to that clear English? By ignoring all the free parts of its economy and emphasizing only its Socialistic parts; by being intentionally biased and deceitful.

By lying, smearing, bleating in ignorance, as you've done for many, many, many pages.

Cannonpointer » 26 Jul 2014 11:18 am » wrote: Words for you to heed, moron. You are hiding from the real issues by bloviating religious dogma about what communism can never do - an unverifiable assertion intended to throw chaff for the purpose of distracting from your incompetence to explain away the political brutality in Singapore which - according to your claims and precepts - ought not to be there.

Your own example proves your faith corrupt and stupid - and more bloviating about what Communism is or is not capable of will not redeem your stupid and utterly debunked faith, child. SINGAPORE IS WHAT IT IS: A BRUTAL, AUTHORITARIAN CAPITALIST **** HOLE.

Now, speak to the topic - SINGAPORE, - or **** off. I am not going to endlessly debate your childish and unverifiable assertions about communism's capacities under various hypothetical scenarios. I DO NOT CARE what communism is capable of - I AM NOT A COMMUNIST. I do not care whether today's China is "pure" communist, most;ly" communist or "recovering" communist. You will never convince me that giving the chinese - EVE N IF THEY ARE NOW FULL BLOWN CAPITALISTS - our tool and die technology and actual equipment, along with building them factories and giving them access to our markets, was patriotic - or anything less than treason.

So we will agree to disagree about the knife you and your kind put in America's back out of deeply felt platonic love for coolie workers. And we will agree to disagree that communism causes the loss of language as a means of expression, reducing people in its thrall to grunting and rock-throwing.

We are not arguing the nature of communism, you hack. I am not a proponent of communism. We are arguing the nature of CAPITALISM - and you are declining to defend it - you are essentiially admitting you CANNOT defend it, by bloviating against a system that no one is defending - ultimately resorting to the cheap gambit of making claims so preposterous they bait one into a response, giving you the opportunity to work your clem tricks and divert the subject away from the issue you wish to avoid: SINGAPORE. CAPITALISM. The things you cannot defend but will not stop bootlicking for.

THERE IT IS!!!
a major propaganda technique of clemmy
recurrent in this forum ad infinitum…
how the hell does clemmy not bore himself to death,
such is the plight of dishonesty

Cannonpointer » 26 Jul 2014 11:25 am » wrote: Gosh - you actually admitted that your hero was a repressive tyrant, before he was washed in the blood of Capitalism and redeemed by the grace of the Market?

Progress.

Translated into honest English: you'll tell blatant lies, smear in dishonest manner, distort, exaggerate and show the truly ugly character you have.

Character that is typical of the Left.

Cannonpointer » 26 Jul 2014 11:25 am » wrote:Now, let's discuss why Singapore is not the democratic utopia that it should be, full of healthy, happy workers whose contracts are all voluntary and mutually beneficial, and whose rights are respected by a government that need not fear its citizens, providing them as it does a sunny and capitalistic environment in which to go about the manly business of becoming millionaires.

For the same reason any country requires time for improvement, duuuh.

That's so freaking obvious, you might even get it.

But I doubt it. You prefer lies and bulls***.

Cannonpointer » 26 Jul 2014 11:18 am » wrote:

Wow, that's quite a psychotic episode you're having. Do you really think the average Singapore citizen would agree with you, hmmmm?

Rotsa ruck selling your leftist swill.