Liberal Forum

Trumprules » 26 Feb 2023, 8:51 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Feb 2023, 8:51 pm

Ukraine abruptly changed its pro-Russian stance following the overthrow of the pro-Kremlin government in 2014 and Russia’s annexation of Crimea a month later. One of the arguments that Russia used to justify the annexation was fears that Ukraine would invite NATO troops to Crimea’s strategic Black Sea port of Sevastopol.Following Poroshenko’s speech, the Ukrainian parliament voted to appeal to the Constitutional Court to review the amendments.

-----------------------------------------------Does Ukraine Want to Join NATO?Ukraine’s leaders in recent years have made enthusiastic pleas about their desire to bring the country into NATO — especially current President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, who was elected into office in 2019. His election came on the heels of a move by Ukraine’s parliament to enshrine the goals of joining NATO and the European Union into the country’s constitution in September 2018. Three years later, Zelenskyy sat in the Oval Office, meeting with President Joe Biden during an official visit to the U.S., and he told reporters he planned to press his American counterpart on the question of Ukraine’s “chances to join NATO and the timeframe." No timeline or further commitment came out of the meeting.But while Ukraine’s leadership has directly pressed for membership since at least 2008, it hasn’t always been popular in the country. 
 

Trumprules » 26 Feb 2023, 8:53 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Feb 2023, 8:53 pm

And how did the invasion work out for putin not having NATO members on his borders?

how is it working out for ukraine?

Trumprules » 26 Feb 2023, 8:19 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Feb 2023, 8:19 pm

All putin did was scare the **** out of Finland and Sweden right into NATO. And it looks like Ukrainian might just become a NATO member after all this is said and done.

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https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/n ... -the-club/

Ukraine’s desire to join NATO is not new, but Ukraine is arguably further away today from NATO membership than it was on February 23. The prospect of NATO membership is of course one of the many reasons Putin invaded Ukraine in the first place. The Ukrainian government is clearly ratcheting up the pressure on Moscow in response to increased pressure from Russia through the referendums and Putin’s unhinged speech. The issue is not Ukraine’s ability to meet NATO standards. The issue is that Ukraine is at war with Russia and the same NATO members that are not doing everything in their power already to ensure Ukrainian victory are not going to support entering into a formal alliance with Ukraine that would require them to legally commit to Ukraine’s defense. 
 

Trumprules » 26 Feb 2023, 8:09 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Feb 2023, 8:09 pm

What offers did putin give ukrain in order to not be invaded. What was putins conditions. Please enlighten me.

-----------------------------------------------------As Russia gathered tens of thousands of troops along its border with Ukraine in the months before invading the country — something the Kremlin denied it would do about up until the day it happened — President Vladimir Putin began issuing demands to the West.In mid-December, Russia submitted draft documents outlining security arrangements it wanted to negotiate with the United States and NATO, as Washington for weeks had been seeking diplomatic solutions to deescalate from what U.S. officials were already calling the opening moves of a possible invasion.One of the Kremlin’s top demands near the top of the list: NATO should ban Ukraine from ever joining its alliance.While NATO, the U.S. and other allies rejected this demand — and have even downplayed the Ukraine-NATO issue as a reason for Russia's invasion — NATO also avoided adding Ukraine despite requests from the country to join over several years.

Trumprules » 26 Feb 2023, 9:22 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Feb 2023, 9:22 pm

It's actually against NATO charter to admit countries at war.

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NATO leaders promised Ukraine in 2008 that it could one day join the alliance, but full NATO membership appears distant. All the alliance's 30 members would have to give their consent and some are wary of how Russia would react.

Trumprules » 26 Feb 2023, 9:15 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Feb 2023, 9:15 pm

I think it will turn out well for ukraine in the end.

you think.

and what about now?

Trumprules » 26 Feb 2023, 9:25 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Feb 2023, 9:25 pm

Putins war aim of not having neighbors that are NATO members failed.

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https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/uk ... 023-01-11/

LVIV, Ukraine, Jan 11 (Reuters) - President Volodymyr Zelenskiy urged NATO on Wednesday to do more than just promise Ukraine its door is open at a July summit, saying Kyiv needs "powerful steps" as it tries to join the military alliance.Kyiv requested fast-track NATO membership last September, seven months after Russia invaded Ukraine. NATO says it has an s open-door policy to Ukraine but has not said whether it will accelerate moves towards Kyiv's possible accession.
 

Trumprules » 26 Feb 2023, 8:09 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Feb 2023, 8:09 pm

What offers did putin give ukrain in order to not be invaded. What was putins conditions. Please enlighten me.

how about don't join nato and we won't invade.

considering the past year that was a pretty good offer.

roadkill » 26 Feb 2023, 1:38 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Feb 2023, 1:38 pm

:blink:  

^^^^^^^^ Example of anyone that ever did and does. ^^^^^^^^

Context for thought since life only evolves genetically changing population forward now, one ancestor at a time from here as total sum generations gaps left adding the last great great grandchildren arriving now..

30:1 compression ratio to each great great grandchilds unique DNA get's 93.75% from previous 4 generation gaps lived in real time. It is a universal constant.

figure it out yourself. you had 2 biological parents, 4 biological grandparents, 8 biological great grandparents, 16 biological great great grandparents. So as an added great great grandchild becoming a parent of another generation gap of great great grandchildren changing current populaiton here one became 50% their DNA, that 1's parents became 25%, those 4 grandparents parents became 12.5%.

anyone reading this catch the rule of 72 to compounding interest of chromosome results forward in plain sight every type cast human ignores or else.

What do you want freedom from?

Life or socially engineered reasonable doubt? Your choice.

Trumprules » 26 Feb 2023, 7:33 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Feb 2023, 7:33 pm

Biden is not a hero in this story. Zelensky and the Ukrainian peoples desire to be free peoples are the heros.

sure, obama would not give weapons to ukraine, trump wanted to barter to send weapons, but here comes joe giving weapons.  no problem,
 

jerrab » 26 Feb 2023, 11:26 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Feb 2023, 11:26 pm

how about don't join nato and we won't invade.

considering the past year that was a pretty good offer.

That is blackmail. One does not negotiate with a gun to one's head.
Putin invaded because he couldn't have a prosperous Europe oriented democracy on his doorstep.

The offer Zalinsky should make Putin in return is the offer he has made which is Putin is invited to bend over and kiss his own *** before vacating the field.

slideman » 27 Feb 2023, 11:26 am » wrote: ↑

27 Feb 2023, 11:26 am

That is blackmail. One does not negotiate with a gun to one's head.
Putin invaded because he couldn't have a prosperous Europe oriented democracy on his doorstep.

A very important fact is that  Ukraine is almost certain to be more prosperous than Russia, and it has a large Russian-speaking population and its radio and TV would be transmitting to a very large number of Russians in Russia.

A similar arrangement occurred before, in Germany.  West Germany and Austria had booming economies and labor shortages. East Germany had a comparatively puny economy and a lot of well educated people working for very low salaries.

The result was a brain drain from East to West. The same would likely offer in Russia.
Imagine Ukrainian TV and radio broadcasting the uncensored truth about Russia.

slideman » 27 Feb 2023, 11:26 am » wrote: ↑

27 Feb 2023, 11:26 am

That is blackmail. One does not negotiate with a gun to one's head.
Putin invaded because he couldn't have a prosperous Europe oriented democracy on his doorstep.

actual proof? not just some dumb ***'s statement.
 

slideman » 27 Feb 2023, 11:26 am » wrote: ↑

27 Feb 2023, 11:26 am

That is blackmail. One does not negotiate with a gun to one's head.
Putin invaded because he couldn't have a prosperous Europe oriented democracy on his doorstep.

  a warning. blackmail is threatening to expose a secret.

if someone is intent of doing something knowing that the other is opposed to, they can expect resistance.

jerra b » 27 Feb 2023, 11:54 am » wrote: ↑

27 Feb 2023, 11:54 am

  a warning. blackmail is threatening to expose a secret.

if someone is intent of doing something knowing that the other is opposed to, they can expect resistance.

Self evident evolving keeps no secrets. Deniers have to keep what they're doing covered up by resonable doubt.

Taipan » 24 Feb 2023, 2:13 pm » wrote: ↑

24 Feb 2023, 2:13 pm

jerrab » 24 Feb 2023, 2:09 pm » wrote: ↑

24 Feb 2023, 2:09 pm

---------------------------------------------------------------Some of the language appeared to be directed at the west. The paper warned against “expanding military blocs”, an apparent reference to Nato, and urged all parties to “avoid fanning the flames and aggravating tensions”, mirroring language that Beijing officials have repeatedly used to criticise US support of Ukraine.Ukraine’s charge d’affaires to China, Zhanna Leshchynska, called the position paper “a good sign” and said she expected China to be more active in its support of her country. “We hope they also urge Russia to stop the war and withdraw its troops,” she said, adding that she did not at the moment see China as supporting Ukrainian efforts.

How about if the U.S. & China got together to referee this feud.?
With 1 goal in mind..........no more war.     It is just too expensive
on all of us.

 

biden says no.

Russia has a population about the same as Mexico, and it is shrinking.
China has a very long border with Russia and over a billion people.
Strange that this does not seem to occur much to "experts".

Taipan » 24 Feb 2023, 12:25 pm » wrote: ↑

24 Feb 2023, 12:25 pm

War is very, very, expensive for all parties concerned.
Russia is bleeding.
Ukraine is bleeding.
NATO is bleeding.
USA is bleeding.

All of this is unnecessary.
When the 5 Mafia Families were at war with each other, they quickly learned that war
cuts deeply into profits.   So they called for peace, formed a Commission, & divvied-up
territory.     We can do the same for the Ukraine War.           For the exact same reason.
Peace is more profitable that war.!!

We are 'problem-solvers'.
Let's attacked the problem from 100 different angles.
I will propose 3 right now.
1.  The United Nations.  195 nations.    This......is their job.                 World Peace.
     Let's send in the Blue-Helmets & demand both tribes back-off to their own corners of the ring.
2. Send in the Christians.     Build 2 great Churches.    1 in Ukraine......and 1 in Russia.
    Bring in the Varsity Team.   The "A-Team" of Preachers, Ministers, & Priests from all over the
    world (like Billy Graham).      Preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ.........until Hell freezes over !!
3.  Unify all nations in the business world.    No more business with anyone who will not come
     to the table for Peace-Talks.   Sanctions.   Heavy-duty sanctions that can cripple any economy.

If we can go to the moon & and invent the internet.....then we can solve all problems here on Earth.
World Peace can be had......if we all play our cards right. 
Let's beat our swords,......into plowshares.       Wouldn't that make the Angels smile ?                   
https://youtu.be/FEAVWy1ILWo
   

Now is not the time for peace.  It is time to finish off an evil empire - one which began and spread like a vicious cancer since the beginning of the 20th century.  Russia has been a plague on this Earth, and it has come time to cleanse the earth from this plague.  Whatever it takes.
 

Skans » 01 Mar 2023, 1:13 pm » wrote: ↑

01 Mar 2023, 1:13 pm

Now is not the time for peace.  It is time to finish off an evil empire - one which began and spread like a vicious cancer since the beginning of the 20th century.  Russia has been a plague on this Earth, and it has come time to cleanse the earth from this plague.  Whatever it takes.
 

Humanity is th evil empire. Not the species that invented reasonable doubt used against itself.