Liberal Forum

golfboy » 25 Jun 2023, 7:10 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Jun 2023, 7:10 pm

You said they were TS. 
They were not because they were declassified.   

You can't prove intent:  "... the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation"

that sentence does not talk about intent, it only talks about how sensitive the possessor believed the documents might be.  Again... classification is irrelevant.  It is not even mentioned in the Espionage Act that you linked to.

maineman » 25 Jun 2023, 7:13 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Jun 2023, 7:13 pm

do you know how we pick FBM operating areas? 

Yes or no?

Of course, everyone does. 
You move them to within reach of any current, or potential threat. 
You know, like Tehran, and now because of Joe Biden, Taiwan, Moscow and NKorea. 
 

golfboy » 25 Jun 2023, 7:07 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Jun 2023, 7:07 pm

Federal Judge Amy Jackson says you don't know what you're talking about. 
“The [Presidential Records Act] does not confer any mandatory or even discretional authority on the archivist,  Under the statute, this responsibility is left solely to the president.”

jackson is cracked or on crack, one of the two, the law clearly says the president is to preserve government documents for nara.

maineman » 25 Jun 2023, 7:15 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Jun 2023, 7:15 pm

that sentence does not talk about intent, it only talks about how sensitive the possessor believed the documents might be.  Again... classification is irrelevant.  It is not even mentioned in the Espionage Act that you linked to.

"reason to believe the documents could be used to the injury of the United States". 
Intent. 

Sorry Room Temp.   You lose. 

jerrab » 25 Jun 2023, 7:17 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Jun 2023, 7:17 pm

jackson is cracked or on crack, one of the two, the law clearly says the president is to preserve government documents for nara.

You're just racist. 
 
 

golfboy » 25 Jun 2023, 7:17 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Jun 2023, 7:17 pm

You're just racist.

you are just an asshole.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/95th-cong ... bill/13500
Passed Senate amended (10/13/1978)(Measure passed Senate, amended)Presidential Records Act - States that the United States shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of all Presidential records. Requires the President to assure that the performance of official Presidential duties is adequately documented and that documentary materials be appropriately maintained. Permits the President to dispose only of such records which have no administrative, historical, informational, or evidentiary value if the President obtains the views, in writing, of the Archivist of the United States concerning the proposed disposal schedule of such records and the Archivists states that he does not intend to take action under the provisions of this Act. Permits the President, if the Archivist states an intention to take action, to dispose of such records if copies of the disposal schedule are submitted to the appropriate committees of Congress at least 60 days of continuous session of Congress in advance of the proposed disposal date.Requires the Archivist to assume custody, control, and preservation of and access to the records of a President upon the conclusion of the President's term of office; making such records available to the public as rapidly and completely as possible. Requires the Archivist to place such records in a Presidential archival depository or another facility operated by the United States. Authorizes the Archivist to designate, after consultation with the President, a director for each depository or facility.Permits restrictions on access to Presidential records for up to 12 years if such documents have been validly classified as secret, relate to a Federal appointment, certain trade secrets or other commercial information obtained under privileged circumstances, consist of confidential communications requesting or submitting advice between the President and his advisors between advisers, or contain personal information, disclosure of which would constitute an unwarranted invasion of privacy. Establishes limits on the duration of the restriction of disclosure of Presidential records.Subjects Presidential records to subpena or other judicial process for the purposes of any civil or criminal investigation or proceeding. States that such records shall be available to an incumbent President and to either House of Congress. Makes the records of a former President available to such former President or the designated representative of such former President.Applies all provisions of this Act to Vice-Presidential, as well as Presidential records.
 

jerrab » 25 Jun 2023, 7:19 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Jun 2023, 7:19 pm

you are just an asshole.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/95th-cong ... bill/13500

Sorry, but you being upset and saying a black female judge is on crack because you disagree with her, can only be based on your racist views. 
 

jerrab » 25 Jun 2023, 6:00 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Jun 2023, 6:00 pm

erra b, who is currently on your ignore list, made this post.
Display this post.
 

You are so **** STUPID and paid ZERO attention to what I just said!!

Enjoy your PLACE IN HELL, ****!!

jerrab » 25 Jun 2023, 7:19 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Jun 2023, 7:19 pm

you are just an asshole.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/95th-cong ... bill/13500
Passed Senate amended (10/13/1978)(Measure passed Senate, amended)Presidential Records Act - States that the United States shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of all Presidential records. Requires the President to assure that the performance of official Presidential duties is adequately documented and that documentary materials be appropriately maintained. Permits the President to dispose only of such records which have no administrative, historical, informational, or evidentiary value if the President obtains the views, in writing, of the Archivist of the United States concerning the proposed disposal schedule of such records and the Archivists states that he does not intend to take action under the provisions of this Act. Permits the President, if the Archivist states an intention to take action, to dispose of such records if copies of the disposal schedule are submitted to the appropriate committees of Congress at least 60 days of continuous session of Congress in advance of the proposed disposal date.Requires the Archivist to assume custody, control, and preservation of and access to the records of a President upon the conclusion of the President's term of office; making such records available to the public as rapidly and completely as possible. Requires the Archivist to place such records in a Presidential archival depository or another facility operated by the United States. Authorizes the Archivist to designate, after consultation with the President, a director for each depository or facility.Permits restrictions on access to Presidential records for up to 12 years if such documents have been validly classified as secret, relate to a Federal appointment, certain trade secrets or other commercial information obtained under privileged circumstances, consist of confidential communications requesting or submitting advice between the President and his advisors between advisers, or contain personal information, disclosure of which would constitute an unwarranted invasion of privacy. Establishes limits on the duration of the restriction of disclosure of Presidential records.Subjects Presidential records to subpena or other judicial process for the purposes of any civil or criminal investigation or proceeding. States that such records shall be available to an incumbent President and to either House of Congress. Makes the records of a former President available to such former President or the designated representative of such former President.Applies all provisions of this Act to Vice-Presidential, as well as Presidential records.

When was Judge Jackson's precedent setting ruling?
Oh yea, 2012.  

So was the law you quoted in effect, when the judge ruled the President was the SOLE decider in what records were his, and what belonged to the government?
 

golfboy » 25 Jun 2023, 7:21 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Jun 2023, 7:21 pm

Sorry, but you being upset and saying a black female judge is on crack because you disagree with her, can only be based on your racist views.

You and everyone ELSE needs to do this....

erra b, who is currently on your ignore list, made this post.
Display this post.

She is OBVIOUSLY way to effing OBTUSE to understand that she can cite the LAW all she wants, but Judge Jackson FULLY INTERPRETED IT CORRECTLY AND WITHOUT ANY WAVERING FROM THE FACT that the PRESIDENT is the one who determines WHAT NARA gets in terms of PRESIDENTIAL RECORDS. PERIOD!! Which is what the LAW this **** is citing SAYS WITHOUT QUESTION!!!

golfboy » 25 Jun 2023, 7:13 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Jun 2023, 7:13 pm

I never said any such thing.   You always play this game, trying to change the subject when you've gotten your ****** grabbed in public. 
But then again, Clinton lost the launch codes, and you didn't give a ****.   Did you?

so there is a limit to what he can share with folks? 

maineman » 25 Jun 2023, 7:29 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Jun 2023, 7:29 pm

so there is a limit to what he can share with folks?

Did  say that?  No. 
Trying to move the goal posts again?
 

maineman » 25 Jun 2023, 7:15 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Jun 2023, 7:15 pm

that sentence does not talk about intent, it only talks about how sensitive the possessor believed the documents might be.  Again... classification is irrelevant.  It is not even mentioned in the Espionage Act that you linked to.

"Espionage Act" is not mentioned in the indictment... So tell us.... what is Trump being charged with?
Prove me wrong..
Here is the indictment

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000188 ... ff4de50000
 

golfboy » 25 Jun 2023, 7:17 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Jun 2023, 7:17 pm

"reason to believe the documents could be used to the injury of the United States". 
Intent. 

Sorry Room Temp.   You lose.

"Could be used", not "I intend to give them away so that they WILL be used."  "Could be used" is merely an acknowledgment of the sensitive nature of the documents.  It says nothing about the person's intent to allow them to be used to the injury of the United States.  Did you flunk ESL at GED night school?

user1687614437 » 25 Jun 2023, 7:33 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Jun 2023, 7:33 pm

"Espionage Act" is not mentioned in the indictment... So tell us.... what is Trump being charged with?
Prove me wrong..
Here is the indictment

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000188 ... ff4de50000

The very last sentence of Page 33
The Espionage Act of 1917 is a United States federal law enacted on June 15, 1917, shortly after the United States entered World War I. It has been amended numerous times over the years. It was originally found in Title 50 of the U.S. Code (War & National Defense) but is now found under Title 18 (Crime & Criminal Procedure). Specifically, it is 18 U.S.C. ch. 37(18 U.S.C. § 792 et seq.)

golfboy » 25 Jun 2023, 7:25 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Jun 2023, 7:25 pm

When was Judge Jackson's precedent setting ruling?
Oh yea, 2012.  

So was the law you quoted in effect, when the judge ruled the President was the SOLE decider in what records were his, and what belonged to the government?

yes.
 
 

jerrab » 25 Jun 2023, 1:01 am » wrote: ↑

25 Jun 2023, 1:01 am

oops, she only quoted part b she forgot  a

(a)
------Through the implementation of records management controls and other necessary actions, the President shall take all such steps as may be necessary to assure that the activities, deliberations, decisions, and policies that reflect the performance of the President’s constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties are adequately documented and that such records are preserved and maintained as Presidential records pursuant to the requirements of this section and other provisions of law.-----
(b)
Documentary materials produced or received by the President, the President’s staff, or units or individuals in the Executive Office of the President the function of which is to advise or assist the President, shall, to the extent practicable, be categorized as Presidential records or personal records upon their creation or receipt and be filed separately

And she added b

(b)
Documentary materials produced or received by the President, the President’s staff, or units or individuals in the Executive Office of the President the function of which is to advise or assist the President, shall, to the extent practicable, be categorized as Presidential records or personal records upon their creation or receipt and be filed separately

The president determines what is personal or Presidential...

maineman » 25 Jun 2023, 7:34 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Jun 2023, 7:34 pm

"Could be used", not "I intend to give them away so that they WILL be used."  "Could be used" is merely an acknowledgment of the sensitive nature of the documents.  It says nothing about the person's intent to allow them to be used to the injury of the United States.  Did you flunk ESL at GED night school?

How could they be used, if he didn't INTEND to give them to someone who would use them to injure America?

 

golfboy » 25 Jun 2023, 7:38 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Jun 2023, 7:38 pm

How could they be used, if he didn't INTEND to give them to someone who would use them to injure America?

by his gross negligence.  

or, he could give them to someone who he did not know, at the time, would use them to injure America, but then did.

golfboy » 25 Jun 2023, 7:25 pm » wrote: ↑

25 Jun 2023, 7:25 pm

When was Judge Jackson's precedent setting ruling?
Oh yea, 2012.  

So was the law you quoted in effect, when the judge ruled the President was the SOLE decider in what records were his, and what belonged to the government?

https://www.archives.gov/presidential-l ... esidential Records Act (PRA) of 1978The Presidential Records Act (PRA) of 1978, 44 U.S.C. ß2201-2209, governs the official records of Presidents and Vice Presidents that were created or received after January 20, 1981 (i.e., beginning with the Reagan Administration). The PRA changed the legal ownership of the official records of the President from private to public, and established a new statutory structure under which Presidents, and subsequently NARA, must manage the records of their Administrations.  The PRA was amended in 2014, which established several new provisions.Specifically, the PRA: