Liberal Forum

That is a dilemma. I believe in God but I do always ask myself that question.

Bruce » 09 Jul 2023, 12:40 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Jul 2023, 12:40 pm

How could a good and kind, loving God, allow generation after generation of African slaves be raped, whipped, worked as slaves under the lash, and their children sold away from their mothers?


 

God gave man dominion over animals, I thought you read the bible.

Vegas » 09 Jul 2023, 12:24 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Jul 2023, 12:24 pm

This is an age old question, and a good one. It's a fair question because it brings the character of God into question. God is just, but he allows injustice. I have heard many religious leaders, and followers, of all religions, try to answer this. I don't know about you all, but I find their answers less than satisfying. Their answers tend to raise more questions than resolutions.

Here is my theory:

If we ask 'why does God allow evil to happen to good people', then by implication, we are saying that this is God's world. By saying that God is "allowing" anything implies that he has jurisdiction over it. I say that God doesn't own this world, mankind does. Thus, God has no jurisdiction over it. This is consistent with the bible when Eve ate the forbidden fruit. Mankind kicked God out of the world ages ago. Mankind owns it, not God. It's not hard to comprehend that humans allow evil to happen to good people. 

What's really amazing is how their can be good an evil world. Not the other way around.

Thank you, Mr. Vegas.
You are deep thinker.
I like that.
Very interesting question.
I like it.
I like your theory.
You are cool w/ me.
But...............sir,.......there is no........"but".
Your theory is just as valid as any other than I have heard.

Please let me throw my 2-bits onto the table;
1.  "Light will not be understood.......w/o darkness.
2.  "The wheel is strong.....but only if the housing for the axel is there....also.
3.  "The Cop does not have a job.........w/o athe black criminal".
4.  My wife was fighting bitch.    We fought like 'cats & dogs'.
     We had passionate 'make-up sex'.....10,000 times.    I got laid.
5.  Symbiotic relationship.       
6.  Russia was slipping under on the 'World Stage'.          Now, ......they are not.
7.  It is what is left out.....that leaves us in.
     It is the light shining ....shining over the dark.
8.  All 8 billion souls on Earth......are sentient human beings.....with choice.
    they all have a choice.                 Light.......or darkness.
9.  World Peace & family peace.............are borne of light.
10.  Jesus Christ......is the Son of God.     Jesus is.........."The Light".          

I want you to post more.                 

@Z09  
@sooted up Cyndi 
@iamgreatagain.
@Skans  
@Squatchman  
https://youtu.be/HKlOLyYs3Os

Vegas » 09 Jul 2023, 3:07 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Jul 2023, 3:07 pm

Oh okay. Well, I was making a point that evil existed before Jesus appeared on Earth. I didn't really think I needed to explain the fine details.

Then you should have said it that way.  Not my fault you didn't.
 

Bruce » 09 Jul 2023, 3:10 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Jul 2023, 3:10 pm

And, blasphemy against God the Father and God the Son is forgivable.  

But to sin against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable in this world or the next.

Jesus said that.

That is why old time Christians did not evangelize.

The “Christians” you see calling people groomers that aren’t groomers and bashing the poor, pitiful trannies and cheering when little black kids get gunned down, and all the other evil, lowlife, mean **** MAGA stands for, can and likely will be forgiven.

The Christians who know what good and evil is, and  know right from wrong, would burn in hell for that if they tried it even one, single time.

It's not my place to judge whats in their heart or their salvation.  And it isn't yours...you already said so yourself.

 

ConsRule » 09 Jul 2023, 5:39 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Jul 2023, 5:39 pm

It's not my place to judge whats in their heart or their salvation.  And it isn't yours...you already said so yourself.

There were 80 million Germans in the Third Reich and I cannot believe all of them are burning in hell.

For example, you’ll read where some hundred year old man was drafted into the German army and they put him on concentration camp duty.

And today, Christian Ukrainian boys are trying to see many Christian Russian boys they can kill, and vice versa.

The old time Disciples were just like Amish and Mennonites and could have a conscience objector status during the draft, for the asking.

But I never heard of one that did.

My childish plans for my 1976 military service was to volunteer and become a door gunner on a Medivac chopper in Vietnam.
 
The fall of Saigon ended that.

ConsRule » 09 Jul 2023, 5:38 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Jul 2023, 5:38 pm

Then you should have said it that way.  Not my fault you didn't.

But why would I need to say the obvious? If I am describing a car, do I also need to say that it has 4 wheels and steering wheel?

Vegas » 09 Jul 2023, 8:37 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Jul 2023, 8:37 pm

But why would I need to say the obvious? If I am describing a car, do I also need to say that it has 4 wheels and steering wheel?

That's an apples and oranges comparison.  To make it apples to apples, you would have to say wheels didn't exist before the car was invented.

Just be an adult and admit you did a **** job at saying what you intended to say.

Vegas » 09 Jul 2023, 12:24 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Jul 2023, 12:24 pm

This is an age old question, and a good one. It's a fair question because it brings the character of God into question. God is just, but he allows injustice. I have heard many religious leaders, and followers, of all religions, try to answer this. I don't know about you all, but I find their answers less than satisfying. Their answers tend to raise more questions than resolutions.

Here is my theory:

If we ask 'why does God allow evil to happen to good people', then by implication, we are saying that this is God's world. By saying that God is "allowing" anything implies that he has jurisdiction over it. I say that God doesn't own this world, mankind does. Thus, God has no jurisdiction over it. This is consistent with the bible when Eve ate the forbidden fruit. Mankind kicked God out of the world ages ago. Mankind owns it, not God. It's not hard to comprehend that humans allow evil to happen to good people. 

What's really amazing is how their can be good an evil world. Not the other way around.

God does have jurisdiction over this world, but he chooses not to exercise it.  God gave man free will.  Freedom to choose our own destinies.

This world is a place for us to be tested.  There are only a few constants.  We all die.  None of us know exactly when that will be, unless someone takes their own life. And, nothing is "fair".

While we are here on this world, we believe that life is precious and that death is dark and evil. But, what if there really is a Heaven.  A place, where after this life, we again are allowed to bask in the warm, infinite love and joy of God.  That would make our existence on Earth a sort of Purgatory.  A place where there is work to do and things we must learn.  When a young child is called back to God succumbing to a 3-year battle with cancer, we mourn this and (many) curse God for taking the precious life of an innocent child.  Where, if Heaven does exist, the child may have learned what she was supposed to learn, and God had mercy on her soul by releasing her from her suffering. Perhaps we just can't see the other side of this, and therefore tend to label is as evil or unfair.

What really is evil?.  In my view, Cancer is not evil.  Dying in a car accident is not evil.  Even a man hitting a woman out of rage while wrong, misguided and a bad act, is not necessarily evil (it could be, though). True evil can only be inflicted upon others by other humans, and such acts are rather rare. A teenage boy who tortures animals because it excites him to watch them cry and wince in pain is evil. 
 
 
 

Vegas » 09 Jul 2023, 12:47 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Jul 2023, 12:47 pm

Did you even read my OP? I literally answered this.

The **** guy is full of ****.

btw
God, as a concept, is the energy that keeps everything in motion.
It is a universal energy pushing the tiniest atoms and the massive galaxies.
To expect each little event on one tiny mudball in space to make a difference is nutty.

When any retribution comes for evil acts or rewards for wonderful acts,
the only gatekeeper is death. Who knows what happens to our last thoughts?
The meaning to our lives and being here at all is beyond our grasp.

The God concept also forced upon us "free will". Both our anchor and our wings.
 

The answer to this that I usually read/hear is that injustice is some sort of test. That is lazy IMO. I am atheist and do not believe that there is a god. He/she/it is simply a construct for those who did not have the knowledge to explain how the world worked and so needed something to fill in the blanks. However, if you want to believe in a god then so be it.

Vegas » 09 Jul 2023, 12:24 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Jul 2023, 12:24 pm

This is an age old question, and a good one. It's a fair question because it brings the character of God into question. God is just, but he allows injustice. I have heard many religious leaders, and followers, of all religions, try to answer this. I don't know about you all, but I find their answers less than satisfying. Their answers tend to raise more questions than resolutions.

Here is my theory:

If we ask 'why does God allow evil to happen to good people', then by implication, we are saying that this is God's world. By saying that God is "allowing" anything implies that he has jurisdiction over it. I say that God doesn't own this world, mankind does. Thus, God has no jurisdiction over it. This is consistent with the bible when Eve ate the forbidden fruit. Mankind kicked God out of the world ages ago. Mankind owns it, not God. It's not hard to comprehend that humans allow evil to happen to good people. 

What's really amazing is how their can be good an evil world. Not the other way around. 
 

two words inverted letters spelling each.evil live. Lived devil in details/context promising tomorrows for everyone sacrificing their biological time to stay loyal to character projections as ancestrally here now.

It is insubordinate to answer the question "Who do you think you are?" with explaining how and why what you are evolving in plain sight.
Second offense is treason to geographical law of the land
3rd offense is blasphemy saying now is eternity where genetics eternally separates reproductions never same total sum left evolving forward now.

Pick any social argument ever used to build nations of people demanding human rights to silence anyone not participating in denying now is eternity.

Instinctive honesty is antisocial behavior. Why every society demands it take a village to keep people loyal to narratives or else.

DeezerShoove » 10 Jul 2023, 8:41 am » wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2023, 8:41 am

The **** guy is full of ****.

 

Yes, I have figured that out about him. Lol

God, as a concept, is the energy that keeps everything in motion.
It is a universal energy pushing the tiniest atoms and the massive galaxies.
To expect each little event on one tiny mudball in space to make a difference is nutty.

When any retribution comes for evil acts or rewards for wonderful acts,
the only gatekeeper is death. Who knows what happens to our last thoughts?
The meaning to our lives and being here at all is beyond our grasp.

The God concept also forced upon us "free will". Both our anchor and our wings.

Deeze...you know I respect you. I love your views. However, I have to say that this has to be the gayest view I have read from you. I literally feel like I turned into a homosexual after reading it.

ConsRule » 10 Jul 2023, 7:27 am » wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2023, 7:27 am

That's an apples and oranges comparison.  To make it apples to apples, you would have to say wheels didn't exist before the car was invented.

Just be an adult and admit you did a **** job at saying what you intended to say.

The point is that not every single little detail always needs to be included. Some things are already established as known. He said that Jesus was his God. Therefore, there was no need for me to explain the obvious. 

Now, be a good boy and admit that you are being petty. 

Vegas » 10 Jul 2023, 12:15 pm » wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2023, 12:15 pm

Yes, I have figured that out about him. Lol

Deeze...you know I respect you. I love your views. However, I have to say that this has to be the gayest view I have read from you. I literally feel like I turned into a homosexual after reading it.

Deezer said:
 btw
God, as a concept, is the energy that keeps everything in motion.
It is a universal energy pushing the tiniest atoms and the massive galaxies.
To expect each little event on one tiny mudball in space to make a difference is nutty.

I agree with that! 
The energy seeded the planet- gave it to us- and we are destroying it. 
he does have better things to do.

I also believe we are The Prison planet.
bad souls are destined to populate earth.  
 

sootedupCyndi » 10 Jul 2023, 12:26 pm » wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2023, 12:26 pm

Deezer said:
 btw
God, as a concept, is the energy that keeps everything in motion.
It is a universal energy pushing the tiniest atoms and the massive galaxies.
To expect each little event on one tiny mudball in space to make a difference is nutty.

I agree with that! 
The energy seeded the planet- gave it to us- and we are destroying it. 
he does have better things to do.

I also believe we are The Prison planet.
bad souls are destined to populate earth.

A "concept" can't do anything. It's just thoughts in our minds. It has no power. 

Vegas » 10 Jul 2023, 12:28 pm » wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2023, 12:28 pm

A "concept" can't do anything. It's just thoughts in our minds. It has no power.

its an energy- deezer said that.
 

sootedupCyndi » 10 Jul 2023, 12:29 pm » wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2023, 12:29 pm

its an energy- deezer said that.

It can't be an energy. A concept is an abstract notion. Energy is real and can be measured. 

Vegas » 10 Jul 2023, 12:31 pm » wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2023, 12:31 pm

It can't be an energy. A concept is an abstract notion. Energy is real and can be measured.

Of course it is. lol
Thats why when you die- you come back. Its a perpetual energy.... we recycle like blades of grass.
 

sootedupCyndi » 10 Jul 2023, 12:42 pm » wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2023, 12:42 pm

Of course it is. lol
Thats why when you die- you come back. Its a perpetual energy.... we recycle like blades of grass.

No, it isn't. The sun is energy. You can measure its heat. Atoms have energy, you can measure their vibrations in motion. Energy can be quantified, like mass by measuring a mass's weight. Energy is measured in Joules. Concepts can't be measured in anything.