Liberal Forum

VILNIUS, Lithuania (AP) — Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan on Monday introduced a new condition for approving Sweden's membership in NATO, calling on European countries to "open the way" for Turkey to join the European Union.
 The surprise announcement by Erdogan before departing to a NATO summit in Lithuania's capital added new uncertainty to Sweden's bid to become the alliance's 32nd member, which Turkey initially blocked saying Sweden was too soft on Kurdish militants and other groups that Ankara considers security threats.

—-

The back story is Joe agreed to let Turkey have F-16s although Dems worried Turkey is using our weapons to slaughter Kurds, are not amused.

And this is a dual loss for Putin.

First, Turkey was warming towards Russia. If Turkey is made part of the EU that’s over.

And the second reason is the Baltic Ocean just became a NATO lake, due to Sweden’s submarine fleet.


https://www.usnews.com/news/world/artic ... r%20built.

The real loser is the Kurds.

Look for Fox News to support the Kurds, in between reports of Hunter Biden’s laptop.
 

LOL, Sweden has 5

30 year old tiny loud diesel subs.

Now thats funny

""fleet""

     

LOL, sad lil Brucey. Mr. Pollyanna.

Erdogan has and will always play both sides against the other.

Thats his MO. He doesnt trust the West - he uses the West

Sumela » 11 Jul 2023, 9:10 pm » wrote: ↑

11 Jul 2023, 9:10 pm

LOL, Sweden has 5

30 year old tiny loud diesel subs.

Now thats funny

Nuclear subs cannot operate in the Baltic.

Sweden only needs one modern diesel electric sub and they have five, and building two more.

The Baltic has been well described as a flooded meadow. The deepest parts are about 200 feet deep.

But even worse for Russia is before Finland and Sweden were part of NATO, as neutrals their ships could still trade with Russia in the event of war with NATO.

Even Adolph Hitler respected Swedish neutrality for that reason, and he was allied with Finland.

And with Turkey blocking the Dardanelles the entire Russian navy in the East is landlocked.

When Putin claims NATO is encircling Russia he’s not wrong.


But it’s his fault they are.  

 

Bruce » 11 Jul 2023, 9:31 pm » wrote: ↑

11 Jul 2023, 9:31 pm

Nuclear subs cannot operate in the Baltic.

Sweden only needs one modern diesel electric sub and they have five, and building two more.

The Baltic has been well described as a flooded meadow. The deepest parts are about 200 feet deep.

But even worse for Russia is before Finland and Sweden were part of NATO, as neutrals their ships could still trade with Russia in the event of war with NATO.

Even Adolph Hitler respected Swedish neutrality for that reason, and he was allied with Finland.

And with Turkey blocking the Dardanelles the entire Russian navy in the East is landlocked.

When Putin claims NATO is encircling Russia he’s not wrong.

But it’s his fault they are.

Sweden
 
 
 

Sad lil Brucey....in moms basement

FORBESBUSINESSAEROSPACE & DEFENSE
Powerful Russian Submarine Seen Entering Baltic Sea

An Oscar-II class nuclear-powered cruise missile submarine was seen entering the Baltic early Thursday. Russia normally only deploys diesel-electric submarines to the area. While these are potent, and can carry a few long range cruise missiles, the arrival of the OSCAR-II is a massive increase in Russian Navy firepower. So when one turns up it gets noticed by NATO and the Baltic States.

Neocon libs

are almost as

embarrassing

as RINO neocons.

UkkksepshunauLL HAHA

Another benefit of Swedish NATO membership is Sweden has been highly industrialized for over a century.

Sweden will adopt NATO standards, and supply NATO armies with munitions.

And while the Baltic is now closed to Russia Allied ships can freely carry arms to Germany and Poland.

Uncle Joe, is the best Cold Warrior since Harry Truman.

Sing one, Floyd Tillman !

https://youtu.be/Txj3EliWH6g

Bruce » 11 Jul 2023, 9:31 pm » wrote: ↑

11 Jul 2023, 9:31 pm

Nuclear subs cannot operate in the Baltic.

Sweden only needs one modern diesel electric sub and they have five, and building two more.

The Baltic has been well described as a flooded meadow. The deepest parts are about 200 feet deep.

But even worse for Russia is before Finland and Sweden were part of NATO, as neutrals their ships could still trade with Russia in the event of war with NATO.

Even Adolph Hitler respected Swedish neutrality for that reason, and he was allied with Finland.

And with Turkey blocking the Dardanelles the entire Russian navy in the East is landlocked.

When Putin claims NATO is encircling Russia he’s not wrong.

But it’s his fault they are.

A desperate, nothing to lose Putin sounds like a fantastic idea. 

NATO is desperate and dying.

Fun to watch.

Sweden? HAHAHA

Bruce » 11 Jul 2023, 9:49 pm » wrote: ↑

11 Jul 2023, 9:49 pm

Another benefit of Swedish NATO membership is Sweden has been highly industrialized for over a century.

Sweden will adopt NATO standards, and supply NATO armies with munitions.

And while the Baltic is now closed to Russia Allied ships can freely carry arms to Germany and Poland.

Uncle Joe, is the best Cold Warrior since Harry Truman.

Sing one, Floyd Tillman !

https://youtu.be/Txj3EliWH6g

GO GET EM, BRUCIE          

Uncle Joe, is the best Cold Warrior since Harry Truman.

 
 

Sumela » 11 Jul 2023, 9:37 pm » wrote: ↑

11 Jul 2023, 9:37 pm

Sad lil Brucey....in moms basement

FORBESBUSINESSAEROSPACE & DEFENSE
Powerful Russian Submarine Seen Entering Baltic Sea

An Oscar-II class nuclear-powered cruise missile submarine was seen entering the Baltic early Thursday. Russia normally only deploys diesel-electric submarines to the area. While these are potent, and can carry a few long range cruise missiles, the arrival of the OSCAR-II is a massive increase in Russian Navy firepower. So when one turns up it gets noticed by NATO and the Baltic States.

—
The Oscar class, Soviet designations Project 949 Granit and Project 949A Antey (NATO reporting names Oscar I and Oscar II respectively), are a series of nuclear-powered cruise missile submarinesdesigned in the Soviet Union for the Soviet Navy. First built in the 1970s, six remain in service with the Russian Navy. Two other vessels were slated to be modernized since at least 2017 as Project 949AM, to extend their service life and increase combat capabilities but it is unclear whether work continues as of 2023.

—-

Oscars are end of the world doomsday weapons.

The reason nobody operates nuclear attack subs in the Baltic is that Oscar has to stay in deep water in the Baltic and even then it’s a sitting duck, it’s sail barely submerged.

That Oscar is useless now.

If it transits the Baltic to blue water, it won’t be coming home if there’s a war.

If it stays in port there are multiple nukes targeting it.

 
 

The New America

neueregel » 11 Jul 2023, 9:52 pm » wrote: ↑

11 Jul 2023, 9:52 pm

A desperate, nothing to lose Putin sounds like a fantastic idea.

Here is Putin’s problem today.

He rules a thug ocracy. The Soviets sold all major industries thirty years ago to oligarchs.  It’s a stagnant, corrupt, Russian version of crony capitalism.

But Russia still had what the world thought was a formidable conventional army, one that could slice through to the Rhine in days, a week at most.

His army can’t take Kyiv. The Ukrainians just mauled it.

Can you imagine 50,000 dead and 150,000 severely wounded soldiers, 4,000 lost armored vehicles, and then a rebel brigade gets within a hundred miles of Moscow?

The West no longer fears invasion.

NATO would just devastate the attackers.

And Russia has nothing we don’t have already, but better.

 

Bruce » 11 Jul 2023, 10:56 pm » wrote: ↑

11 Jul 2023, 10:56 pm

Here is Putin’s problem today.

He rules a thug ocracy. The Soviets sold all major industries thirty years ago to oligarchs.  It’s a stagnant, corrupt, Russian version of crony capitalism.

But Russia still had what the world thought was a formidable conventional army, one that could slice through to the Rhine in days, a week at most.

His army can’t take Kyiv. The Ukrainians just mauled it.

Can you imagine 50,000 dead and 150,000 severely wounded soldiers, 4,000 lost armored vehicles, and then a rebel brigade gets within a hundred miles of Moscow?

The West no longer fears invasion.

NATO would just devastate the attackers.

And Russia has nothing we don’t have already, but better.

China is playing these white guys. Doesn't make them good. Just patient suppliers.
And they have a terrible grudge against... mostly everybody.


Back when black people made music:
https://youtu.be/U_s9QFJUTZ4
 

Baltic schmaltic. The Russian navy (hahahahaaa) will have no way to the Atlantic ocean. Finland and Estonia will stop any ships from St. Petersburg into the Baltic. Finland and Sweden will bottle up any attempts to enter the Gulf of Bothnia. Denmark and Sweden will bottle up the entrance to the North sea. Russia will have to move ships through the Barents into the Norwegian sea and the Denmark strait. Russia can try the Arctic Ocean into the Bering Strait to get to the Pacific ocean but that does not seem too promising. How is that smoke belching aircraft carrier joke the Russians have doing lately. The Russian navy is as impotent as the Russian army. It will take 20 years to rebuild Russian military into a second rate force. Russia is a third rate country, run by thugs with Nukes.

johndnorth » 11 Jul 2023, 11:59 pm » wrote: ↑

11 Jul 2023, 11:59 pm

Baltic schmaltic. The Russian navy (hahahahaaa) will have no way to the Atlantic ocean. Finland and Estonia will stop any ships from St. Petersburg into the Baltic. Finland and Sweden will bottle up any attempts to enter the Gulf of Bothnia. Denmark and Sweden will bottle up the entrance to the North sea. Russia will have to move ships through the Barents into the Norwegian sea and the Denmark strait. Russia can try the Arctic Ocean into the Bering Strait to get to the Pacific ocean but that does not seem too promising. How is that smoke belching aircraft carrier joke the Russians have doing lately. The Russian navy is as impotent as the Russian army. It will take 20 years to rebuild Russian military into a second rate force. Russia is a third rate country, run by thugs with Nukes.

​​​​​​Another embarrassment for Putin is while the Russian army was vastly larger and the Russian population and economy larger than Ukraine, and both armies used the same Soviet era weapons, the Ukrainians proved much more competent.

The Russians use draftees, and until recently mercenaries (which didn’t exactly work out very well when they moved on Moscow)  Russian officers were ineffective, the soldiers ran off, and the flower of the Russian army was wasted and chewed up at the beginning of the war.

By capturing equipment the Ukrainians have more tanks than on the first day of the war.

The flagship of the Black Sea fleet is on the bottom.

The Crimea bridge was destroyed and rebuilt and may be taken down again.

 Russia still has supporters, including much of the American right wing.


But the Russian bear turned out a paper Tiger.

Bruce » 11 Jul 2023, 8:33 pm » wrote: ↑

11 Jul 2023, 8:33 pm

Look for Fox News to support the Kurds, in between reports of Hunter Biden’s laptop.

Like you dick suckers did when tRump honored our treaties with Turkey?
 

Sumela » 11 Jul 2023, 9:24 pm » wrote: ↑

11 Jul 2023, 9:24 pm

LOL, sad lil Brucey. Mr. Pollyanna.

Erdogan has and will always play both sides against the other.

Thats his MO. He doesnt trust the West - he uses the West

It's pretty hilarious that anyone can talk with a straight face about an asian nation joining the eu. 

Such a funny joke. Being full of **** must pay good money these days - so many are doing it.