Liberal Forum

Vegas » 26 Jul 2023, 10:40 am » wrote: ↑

26 Jul 2023, 10:40 am

There was an essay written some time ago by an ecologist that was highly celebrated by many different branches of science. He talked about how humans are the only species that ruin the Earth. If Humans were wiped out, Earth would flourish. No other species has that quality. We don't belong here. 

Oh look, referring to another person minding reasonable doubt to save power of suggesting now cannot be how evolving happens in plain sight. That would mean everyone's ancestries were enabling reasonable doubt throughout history.

What is that popular definition of insanity again? Doing the same thing over and over expecting a better tomorrow, today.

What is Eternal Hell defined as a punishment for not serving humanity? Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different outcome next generation trained to repeat previous 4.

I ask you to change your mind, and you won't. Even when compounding chromosomes explains why every reproduction is never the same as before in series parallel time evolving forward in plain sight now.

Life is a constant second chance to stop denying how evolving actually happens. Until you die. Point of no return to using your own brain navigating life as specifically eternally separated one of a kind now.

Z09 » 26 Jul 2023, 10:53 am » wrote: ↑

26 Jul 2023, 10:53 am

So you think anyone that disagrees with you makes a "fool out of themselves"..?

When asked you have no idea where the plane went but did suggest it was flown to Area 51?

You've ignored witnesses, photos and video of the attack.

You said the FBI weren't real agents, the witnesses wanted their 15 minutes of fame and when asked where this cruise missile came from you admit you have no idea....

If the government was behind the cruise missile, why would they not try to cover that up?

Witnesses aren't conclusive anything. 
The photos were taken 3 days after the incident. The ones that Kobia showed are not suggestive that they were from the pentagon. 
What video? You mean that one that showed a blur that nobody can make out?

Z09 » 26 Jul 2023, 11:05 am » wrote: ↑

26 Jul 2023, 11:05 am

Makes NO sense...


 

It makes a lot more sense, a ton more sense, than believing that some amateur ragheaded pilot, who learned mostly from a simulator and very few flight hours, could have such great aim and precision to hit a building that isn't a tower high in the air, and leave no plane debri behind. 

Z09 » 26 Jul 2023, 11:37 am » wrote: ↑

26 Jul 2023, 11:37 am

There was debris..

And if two other pilots were able to fly into a building why couldn't a third?

By the way ..
"Great aim and precision"???
THe Pentagon is like 35 acres

No, there wasn't. We went over this already. 

The other planes had much easier targets given that they were so high. They didn't need to fly low and aim for something on the ground. 35 acres on the ground, not up in the air. 

Z09 » 26 Jul 2023, 11:52 am » wrote: ↑

26 Jul 2023, 11:52 am

https://www.military.com/history/25-int ... -9-11.html

LOl. Again, this no indication that this debri was from the pentagon. The first pic on your link Kobie gave me. Notice that the fire has already been put out, the fire crew is putting out the smoke. This means that photo was taken probably an hour after. Plenty of time to place that there.

Z09 » 26 Jul 2023, 12:04 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Jul 2023, 12:04 pm

So...
Within an hour of the crash "phony" plane parts are brought to the crash site..
...By the phony FBI agents?

Every part of your theory means more and more people are involved...
And it makes ZERO sense...

Have you considered how dead plane passengers got to the crash site?

Yes. It wouldn't be hard.

There are far more people involved in the government's account.

Pentagon personnel were killed. 

 

Z09 » 26 Jul 2023, 2:56 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Jul 2023, 2:56 pm

It wouldn't be hard to bring dead bodies to a crash site that was heavily guarded after the crash?

I beg to differ

I meant there was staff inside the pentagon working like they always do. 

Vegas » 26 Jul 2023, 9:51 am » wrote: ↑

26 Jul 2023, 9:51 am

No there isn't. Those photos do not suggest that was from the pentagon.

             So you are going to hold to your assertion every single eye witness who saw a Plane approach, and crash into the Pentagon are liars, hallucinating, or complicit in a Government Conspiracy to attack our own country on 9/11?..... 

             You believe the Pentagon, which is the Headquarters for our Military Department of Defense is complicit in firing a Missile at itself, and killing their own people?.... I remind you over 23,000 Military & Civilian people, along with an additional 3,000 support personnel worked at the Pentagon --- and ZERO of the 26,000 people who were actually there have come forward in all these years to claim it was a Missile fired at them? ... People that worked in that building were there before first responders and FBI --- Several identified Aircraft debris and human remains... None saw pieces of a Missile. 

             ALL the remains recovered from inside the Pentagon were taken to the makeshift morgue in the Pentagon's North Parking lot, and then flown to Dover Air Base in Delaware.... Forensic Anthropologists were able to identify remains and body parts belonging to 184 individuals -- 5 were not identified, this totals 189 people .... Do the math... 125 were reported killed at the Pentagon, and 64 were from Flight 77.... You're the one with the theories --- do you have one as to how those remains & body parts from Flight 77 got inside the crash site -- then on to Dover?.... 

            Does it seem plausible to you that the Hijacked Flight 77, on route to strike the Pentagon, would be made to disappear so that a Missile could seamlessly take it's flight path to hit that same target?... 

              

Jantje_Smit » 26 Jul 2023, 9:58 am » wrote: ↑

26 Jul 2023, 9:58 am

I still say that but I also say it doesn't matter, I can't be bothered to argue about it..

That's the same thing.. who cares if they were college educated or if one had a license for a small plane.. there are plenty of trained pilots that said the manoeuvres those planes made on 9/11 were impossible to pull off for someone who only spend a few hours on a flight simulator.. yeah, I also lost the link for that.. and it also doesn't matter..

Yes, that's the point of the picture I posted.. what happened to the footage of all those security cameras that should have gotten a clear picture of the plane hitting the Pentagon.. you still avoid that question...

As for the witnesses, I already told zo9..

They were simply never there in the first place.. they were dropped off at Dover AFB (no, not from area51.. lol) and the doctors there were told they were from the Pentagon.. but you could prove me wrong wih some pictures.. oh wait...

           They didn't need to be expert Pilots to achieve what they accomplished..... The 2 Hijacker Pilots that were able to divert their Flight's courses to reach Manhattan and fly their Planes into both the North & South Towers did so... The Planes had already taken off when they took control... All that was required of them was to replot the Plane's course, descend, and hit their target..

          It's no different than Flight 77 that hit the Pentagon.... The Plane was already airborne when hijacked.. It was just a matter of changing the Plane's course, descending and striking the 2nd largest office building on the planet at 6.5 MILLION square feet... The Pilots weren't required to take-off, make a skilled landing, or strike a small target.... It's also important to note they flew in the day time in clear weather... 

           We discussed the Cameras.... 
This site has probably the most information on the cameras in use at the Pentagon that day and can give a far more in depth explanation.. There were up to 80 Cameras on the Bldg that day, and this site breaks down where they were in relation to the impact zone..


          The bodies were simply never there in the first place?... The body parts of those on Flight 77 were intermingled with those of the Pentagon workers also killed in the explosion.. They were brought to Dover Air Base together --- unless part of the conspiracy was the Men in Black brought the pieces of human remains from different locations and then tossed them together like a salad... LOL

Maybe not an inside job....

But possibly a War Complex job...

They made TRILLIONS due to this event.

Z09 » 26 Jul 2023, 6:48 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Jul 2023, 6:48 pm

I couldn't say it any better

It's my opinion that you and Kobia are wasting your time with these 3 or 4 people. I think they know they're wrong but too proud to admit it. 

Why did GW  Bush ignore the warnings coming from his National Security people and the Military?

Can anyone explain? Was he too dumb for the job .......?

Traitor? Matter of opinion.........

The first war aim is moot because Iraq had no WMD .................
https://apjjf.org/-William-E.-Odom/2335/article.html

========================================================
Bush's support for Manuel Noriega and his eventual invasion of Panama, the pardoning of Iran-Contra criminals, the dirty wars in ...
========================================================

Scion of traitors and warlords: why Bush is coy about his ...The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com › usa.angeliquechrisafis
Jan 27, 2005 — Local historians in Wexford have discovered that George Bush is a descendant of Strongbow, the power-hungry warlord who led the Norman invasion ...

===============================================
The blood on George W Bush's hands will never dry. Don't ...https://www.theguardian.com › commentisfree › oct
Oct 20, 2017 — George W Bush caused far more harm to the country and planet than Trump has so far, and maybe ever will.

==============================================
President Declares "Freedom at War with Fear"National Archives | (.gov)
https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov › 2001/09
President Bush addressed a joint session of Congress and the American people tonight, ... The terrorists are traitors to their own faith, trying, in effect, ...

===============================================
We Shouldn't Have to Remind People George W. Bush ...
Jacobinhttps://jacobin.com › 2020/08 › george-w-bush-iraq-tr...
Aug 21, 2020 — Bush Was a Terrible President. By: Ari Rabin-Havt. The campaign to normalize the George W. Bush presidency is part of a broader campaign to ...

=============================================

Inside George W. Bush's ClosetPolitico
https://www.politico.com › magazine › story › 2014/06
Evertz says Bush's political guru, Karl Rove, for a time would only give him clearance for public appearances if he promised not to be billed as the first ...
Party: Republican Party

======================================================

The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murdermazon.com
https://www.amazon.com › Prosecution-George-W-Bu...
Bush on trial in an American courtroom for the murder of nearly 4,000 American soldiers fighting the war in Iraq. Bugliosi sets forth the legal architecture and ...
 
 

Vegas » 26 Jul 2023, 10:59 am » wrote: ↑

26 Jul 2023, 10:59 am

If the government was behind the cruise missile, why would they not try to cover that up?

Witnesses aren't conclusive anything. 
The photos were taken 3 days after the incident. The ones that Kobia showed are not suggestive that they were from the pentagon. 
What video? You mean that one that showed a blur that nobody can make out?

My brother was assigned cleanup outside the Pentagon.  He collected aircraft parts for the FAA. 
I don't care what anyone claims.  He was there.  It was a plane, not a missile. 
 

Rock » 26 Jul 2023, 8:38 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Jul 2023, 8:38 pm

It's my opinion that you and Kobia are wasting your time with these 3 or 4 people. I think they know they're wrong but too proud to admit it.

So you aren't going to answer where the **** plane is then. Okay, got it. 

Vegas » 26 Jul 2023, 9:22 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Jul 2023, 9:22 pm

So you aren't going to answer where the **** plane is then. Okay, got it.

That question was answered in the many links that Kobia presented. Obviously you ignored them. 

Rock » 26 Jul 2023, 8:38 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Jul 2023, 8:38 pm

It's my opinion that you and Kobia are wasting your time with these 3 or 4 people. I think they know they're wrong but too proud to admit it.

Almost as embarrassing as flat earthers. Almost. 
 

              This is the Link to the Site that discusses the Cameras at the Pentagon on 9/11...... I forgot to attach it to my last post.... It explains the numbers of cameras, and their positioning, as well as the Justice Dept's handling of the video evidence from 9/11... 

      http://www.9-11tv.org/the-pentagon-plan ... ce-cameras

           Why very few cameras captured the impact eventThere are a number of valid reasons why only four of the 80 video recordings that were released by the FBI in response to a FOIA (Freedom Of Information Act) request filed in 2004, which was fulfilled in 2006 had any relevant evidence.  Because of a number of factors (listed below and detailed in the footnotes) only four of the 80 video recordings captured any useful footage of the plane-impact event, and only two of those four showed any direct visual evidence [1].  The other two recordings revealed only indirect evidence, including a shadow on the ground in one video frame which appears to be from the plane flying overhead.

• Most of the video cameras were not aimed in the direction of the Pentagon and/or at the part of the Pentagon in question – the impact zone.
• Most cameras and recorders were located a considerable distance from the impact event, and virtually all surveillance cameras had wide-angle (fisheye) lenses which render distant objects at very low resolution, and which cause some geometric distortion to the image.
• Many cameras had obstructed views of the Pentagon impact area.
• In 2001, virtually all surveillance cameras rendered low spacial resolution images of at best 480i, and more often less.  480i is what is now called SD – Standard Definition.
• In 2001, most surveillance cameras recorded video at low frame rates (low temporal resolution), often in the range of 1 to 8 frames per second.  By comparison, US TV is most often recorded at 30 frames/second.
• The high speed of the plane, which was accelerating to over 550 mph, resulted in image blurring in the video recording, and offered a low chance of catching more than a single frame of the plane, given the low-recorded frame rate (low temporal resolution) of 1 frame/second).

 

Rock » 26 Jul 2023, 8:38 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Jul 2023, 8:38 pm

It's my opinion that you and Kobia are wasting your time with these 3 or 4 people. I think they know they're wrong but too proud to admit it.

          I won't say this about all the 9/11 Inside Job theorists ---- I have a couple friends and a Sister In-Law who subscribe to the idea, though over the years almost all have dropped the banner and abandoned the cause... I enjoy the spirited banter... 
         
          But with some of the remaining diehards, I think it's a case of they became very emotionally invested & attached to their conspiracy beliefs early on -- have dug in their heels --- and probably nothing short of the Terrorists rising from the pits of hell to tell them they did in fact plan & carry out the attacks on 9/11 would convince them otherwise... And even then, some would probably accuse them of lying and being part of the grand cover-up.. 

golfboy » 26 Jul 2023, 8:58 pm » wrote: ↑

26 Jul 2023, 8:58 pm

My brother was assigned cleanup outside the Pentagon.  He collected aircraft parts for the FAA. 
I don't care what anyone claims.  He was there.  It was a plane, not a missile.

         Are you sure he wasn't part of the conspiracy and cover-up?.... Can you be positive he is actually your brother?  Is there any proof that he was in fact collecting Aircraft debris -- and not planting it when no one was looking?  I think we need some verification here... 

Z09 » 26 Jul 2023, 10:53 am » wrote: ↑

26 Jul 2023, 10:53 am

So you think anyone that disagrees with you makes a "fool out of themselves"..? 

So you think 'you' is 'anyone'?

When asked you have no idea where the plane went but did suggest it was flown to Area 51?

When asked you have no idea why there aren't any pictures of a plane hitting the Pentagon but suggest a joke gives you an excuse to avoid answering the question?

You've ignored witnesses, photos and video of the attack.

You've ignored my arguments why those witnesses, photos and video don't prove a plane hit the Pentagon..

You said the FBI weren't real agents, the witnesses wanted their 15 minutes of fame and when asked where this cruise missile came from you admit you have no idea... 

See above...

And I also told you that it doesn't matter where the cruise missile came from but I can think of a scenario.. maybe a submarine or a cruiser doing a life fire excercise with missiles.. and one of them being reprogrammed to hit the Pentagon instead of the target it was supposed to hit.. nobody would know, just the guy doing the reprogramming and the one following the missile on his radar..