Liberal Forum

Vegas » 29 Jul 2023, 10:39 pm » wrote: ↑

29 Jul 2023, 10:39 pm

All of this, including the forensic doctor, are testimonies. 1 through 5 ^^^, all testimonies. Easily manipulated or fabricated. But you can't manipulate physics. Regardless of all these testimonies, there is still no plane at the pentagon. Where is it? I already went over why those pics you showed are inconclusive, it doesn't show them at the pentagon. The photo of that one piece in the lawn was not taken within minutes of the crash. Probably more like an hour. There was only smoke the crew was putting out, the fire was gone (not to mention that piece looked like it was washed and waxed quite nicely., but I won't go there.).

The wingspan of a Boeing 757 is 125 ft. The width of the pentagon hole was 75 ft. 
The length of a Boeing 757 is 155 ft. The depth of the hole was around 40 feet. 

The plane obviously came from an angle of elevation. This means when it crashed, it would have had to penetrate the ground inside the hole 40 ft in. However, that didn't happen. It was like the plane went in horizontally, which is impossible. Even if, for the sake of argument, we go with the theory that the plane was vaporized into practically nothing, the wings would have had to have been clipped off upon entry. Some of those pieces would be laying around the grass somewhere.

          The Forensic Anthropologists assembled at  Dover Air Force Base used scientific DNA analysis to identify more than 187 different Victims brought to them the  body parts -- bone fragments -- and intermingled chunks of flesh from the temporary Morgue in the North Parking Lot at the Pentagon... It is not opinion --- it is fact, unless you can prove all of their work and conclusions were erroneous or they were all complicit in the Pentagon attack. ...  And again, do the math --- 125 were from the list of victims / presumed dead who were working at the Pentagon that day --- and the rest were identified through DNA samples collected from the family members of Flight 77...

          The Pictures as well as the sources documenting who took the photographs of the Plane debris both inside & outside the impact site at the Pentagon are indeed conclusive.. The Wheel Hub of a Boeing 757 outside the hole is conclusive -- the piece of Landing gear and Aluminum with the yellow primer used to paint Aircraft found inside are also conclusive..  Flight 77s Flight Recorder which was retrieved and used as an evidence exhibit  is also conclusive.. You have absolutely zero evidence of it being planted there, along with the other Plane debris.. . ... Here is another list of Eye Witnesses who saw the Plane either approaching or striking the Pentagon...
http://911myths.com/index.php/American_ ... h_Evidence

            These people are from all backgrounds, education levels, worked in both the civilian & military / government employment etc... The one thing they have in common is every one of them saw that Plane. 

           Again --- you have a "theory" of what YOU think should have happened to that Plane at the moment of impact.... Go ahead and GOOGLE "proof a Missile hit the "Pentagon".... What you will get are dozens of sources which debunk this conspiracy theory... Not a single credible source backs your assertion a Missile hit that building... 

          Now I have a question I asked you previously ....
Does it seem plausible to you that a Hijacked Plane (Flight 77) which changed course heading towards DC to attack a target at the Capitol, would be shot down or made to disappear   so that a Missile could seamlessly take over its trajectory to attack the same target the Plane intended to strike?  

           

 
 

Kobia2 » 30 Jul 2023, 12:24 am » wrote: ↑

30 Jul 2023, 12:24 am

          The Forensic Anthropologists assembled at  Dover Air Force Base used scientific DNA analysis to identify more than 187 different Victims brought to them the  body parts -- bone fragments -- and intermingled chunks of flesh from the temporary Morgue in the North Parking Lot at the Pentagon... It is not opinion --- it is fact, unless you can prove all of their work and conclusions were erroneous or they were all complicit in the Pentagon attack. ...  And again, do the math --- 125 were from the list of victims / presumed dead who were working at the Pentagon that day --- and the rest were identified through DNA samples collected from the family members of Flight 77...

          The Pictures as well as the sources documenting who took the photographs of the Plane debris both inside & outside the impact site at the Pentagon are indeed conclusive.. The Wheel Hub of a Boeing 757 outside the hole is conclusive -- the piece of Landing gear and Aluminum with the yellow primer used to paint Aircraft found inside are also conclusive..  Flight 77s Flight Recorder which was retrieved and used as an evidence exhibit  is also conclusive.. You have absolutely zero evidence of it being planted there, along with the other Plane debris.. . ... Here is another list of Eye Witnesses who saw the Plane either approaching or striking the Pentagon...
http://911myths.com/index.php/American_ ... h_Evidence

            These people are from all backgrounds, education levels, worked in both the civilian & military / government employment etc... The one thing they have in common is every one of them saw that Plane. 

           

Again, like I said, these are all testimonies, not actual physical evidence. I don't care about their titles. Look at all the fancy medical doctors involved with the whole Covid Hoax. Look at all the scientist, with their degrees and titles, behind the climate change crap. It's meaningless. I don't care. I care about real physical evidence and physics. I can do the same thing - There are many, and I mean many, professional commercial pilots who insist that a pilot hitting that target, the way the official report claims, would be a one in a million shot. They insist it would be impossible. However, though their professional views support mine, I am not using it as evidence, because they are testimonies. It's not physical evidence either way. 


Where is the damn plane? 

Again --- you have a "theory" of what YOU think should have happened to that Plane at the moment of impact.... Go ahead and GOOGLE "proof a Missile hit the "Pentagon".... What you will get are dozens of sources which debunk this conspiracy theory... Not a single credible source backs your assertion a Missile hit that building... 

          Now I have a question I asked you previously ....
Does it seem plausible to you that a Hijacked Plane (Flight 77) which changed course heading towards DC to attack a target at the Capitol, would be shot down or made to disappear   so that a Missile could seamlessly take over its trajectory to attack the same target the Plane intended to strike?  

           

I don't understand your question. There was no plane to begin with. You are counting on witness testimonies again. Not physical evidence. 

Z09 » 29 Jul 2023, 10:58 am » wrote: ↑

29 Jul 2023, 10:58 am

So all these people that saw an American Airline plane that day just wants their 15 minutes of fame...

So they had something to gain.. you're shifting again..

Odd how no one that saw a cruise missile wanted their 15 minutes....

That's what they saw but everyone, including the hysterical media, says it was a plane.. so that must have been what they saw.. reporting a cruise missile wouldn't have gotten them their 15 minutes but a visit from the men in black instead...

Z09 » 29 Jul 2023, 10:27 am » wrote: ↑

29 Jul 2023, 10:27 am

In describing the footage, the AP stated: “The aeroplane is a thin white blur on the video as it hits the Pentagon at ground level

Z09 » 29 Jul 2023, 10:29 am » wrote: ↑

29 Jul 2023, 10:29 am

"My first thought was he's not going to make it across the river to [Reagan] National Airport. But whoever was flying the plane made no attempt to change direction," Sucherman said. "It was coming in at a high rate of speed, but not at a steep angle -- almost like a heat-seeking missile was locked onto its target and staying dead on course."

Now, about those broken lampposts..

 

 
 

Z09 » 30 Jul 2023, 8:20 am » wrote: ↑

30 Jul 2023, 8:20 am

Your big question is why are lamposts standing...

Well...
The plane plowed into them and maybe even dragged them to the crash a few feet away..

Eh, wot?

A real non starter..

Yes, it doesn't happen very often but I'm actually lost for words..

Do you realize members of Congress went to the crash site and saw seats from airplanes and plane parts...?

Did the members of Congress take any pictures or or we just supposed to take their word for it?

 


 
 
 

Vegas » 30 Jul 2023, 1:13 am » wrote: ↑

30 Jul 2023, 1:13 am

Again, like I said, these are all testimonies, not actual physical evidence. I don't care about their titles. Look at all the fancy medical doctors involved with the whole Covid Hoax. Look at all the scientist, with their degrees and titles, behind the climate change crap. It's meaningless. I don't care. I care about real physical evidence and physics. I can do the same thing - There are many, and I mean many, professional commercial pilots who insist that a pilot hitting that target, the way the official report claims, would be a one in a million shot. They insist it would be impossible. However, though their professional views support mine, I am not using it as evidence, because they are testimonies. It's not physical evidence either way. 

Where is the damn plane? 

I don't understand your question. There was no plane to begin with. You are counting on witness testimonies again. Not physical evidence.

          1. Landing Gear, pieces of Aluminum with yellow primer indicative of the type used on Aircraft and a Wheel Hub from a Boeing 757 AND THE fLIGHT RECORDERS FROM FLIGHT 77 recovered from the crash site are physical evidence.. Explain how they are not... There's your "damn plane".....  Where's the damn Missile that no one saw launched, and not a soul saw hit the Pentagon? You insist that you only care about "physical evidence" but there is absolutely zero to support your own claim of a Missile hitting that building, nor a single eyewitness in 20 years that has even claimed they saw such, and we both know how differently you'd feel about eyewitness testimony if there was any at all to support the Missile theory... And for 20 years not one Inside Jobber has provided a single piece of physical evidence proving Flight 77  crashed anywhere other than the Pentagon.

        2.  Again, from Dr. Robert Mann: For eight days, Mann and other scientists examined human remains from victims who could not be easily identified."We're dealing with body parts, fragments, a finger, a hand or arm, a foot,  anything that can come off the body," he said.He remembers seeing wedding rings on severed hands and watches on wrists, and tables covered with the victims' belongings.. Explain to me how these are not Physical evidence? 

        3.  You guys keep going on how there's no way a Plane could have made it through those street lights unobstructed -----the fact is the Plane clipped and knocked down 5 such street light posts before striking the building... In the video I posted below, watch at 15:30 to see PHYSICAL EVIDENCE of such downed Light Poles, and also a Taxi that was crushed by one of these poles when it came down... Witnesses saw the Plane hitting and knocking them down, and physical evidence supports this. 

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBRDv8LzcuY

     
 
 

Z09 » 30 Jul 2023, 8:50 am » wrote: ↑

30 Jul 2023, 8:50 am

So more witnesses are lying?

Like the witnesses that said they saw an American Airline plane that day.?
They're lying?

And the phony FBI agents...?
They're lying...?

And the members of Congress?
They're lying?

Can you maybe show us some evidence from witnesses that they saw a missile hit the buidling...?
And while you're at it tell us what happened to the plane?

             Look at my post below this #640.....
I included a still shot photo of one of the downed Street Light Posts that crushed a Taxi when it fell..... This was another of the smoking guns the inside jobbers insited didn't exist ----- so now we can expect to be told the FBI planted that Street Light and crushed taxi on the scene as well (with no one seeing them do so LOL)

Kobia2 » 30 Jul 2023, 8:55 am » wrote: ↑

30 Jul 2023, 8:55 am

          1. Landing Gear, pieces of Aluminum with yellow primer indicative of the type used on Aircraft and a Wheel Hub from a Boeing 757 AND THE fLIGHT RECORDERS FROM FLIGHT 77 recovered from the crash site are physical evidence.. Explain how they are not... There's your "damn plane".....  Where's the damn Missile that no one saw launched, and not a soul saw hit the Pentagon? You insist that you only care about "physical evidence" but there is absolutely zero to support your own claim of a Missile hitting that building, nor a single eyewitness in 20 years that has even claimed they saw such, and we both know how differently you'd feel about eyewitness testimony if there was any at all to support the Missile theory... And for 20 years not one Inside Jobber has provided a single piece of physical evidence proving Flight 77  crashed anywhere other than the Pentagon.

        2.  Again, from Dr. Robert Mann: For eight days, Mann and other scientists examined human remains from victims who could not be easily identified."We're dealing with body parts, fragments, a finger, a hand or arm, a foot,  anything that can come off the body," he said.He remembers seeing wedding rings on severed hands and watches on wrists, and tables covered with the victims' belongings.. Explain to me how these are not Physical evidence? 

        3.  You guys keep going on how there's no way a Plane could have made it through those street lights unobstructed -----the fact is the Plane clipped and knocked down 5 such street light posts before striking the building... In the video I posted below, watch at 15:30 to see PHYSICAL EVIDENCE of such downed Light Poles, and also a Taxi that was crushed by one of these poles when it came down... Witnesses saw the Plane hitting and knocking them down, and physical evidence supports this. 

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBRDv8LzcuY

     

Hani Hanjour: Flight 77 Hijacker - Incompetent Cessna 172 Pilot


7. According to a flight instructor Sherri Baxter At Freeway Airport in Bowie, Md., 20 miles west of Washington. Hani Hanjour the supposed pilot of Flight 77 a Boeing 757 which struck the Pentagon was not able to competently pilot a small student aircraft, a Cessna 172, during a "check ride" a month prior to 9/11.

...When Baxter and fellow instructor Ben Conner took the slender, soft-spoken Hanjour on three test runs during the second week of August, they found he had trouble controlling and landing the single-engine Cessna 172. Even though Hanjour showed a federal pilot's license and a log book cataloging 600 hours of flying experience, chief flight instructor Marcel Bernard declined to rent him a plane without more lessons.

Kobia2 » 30 Jul 2023, 9:04 am » wrote: ↑

30 Jul 2023, 9:04 am

             Look at my post below this #640.....
I included a still shot photo of one of the downed Street Light Posts that crushed a Taxi when it fell..... This was another of the smoking guns the inside jobbers insited didn't exist ----- so now we can expect to be told the FBI planted that Street Light and crushed taxi on the scene as well (with no one seeing them do so LOL)

George Nelson, USAF Crash Investigator, claims that the planes reported to have been used on 911, were likely NOT the aircraft used in at least two of the cases, and the Pentagon was likely not hit by a Boeing 757 at all.

physics911.net...
 

Jantje_Smit » 29 Jul 2023, 10:49 am » wrote: ↑

29 Jul 2023, 10:49 am

Too bad he didn't take any pictures of the broken lampposts..
 

                    This is a photograph of one such Lamp Post .... 
The Taxi Driver's name is Lloyd England..... Here is a Video of Lloyd sharing his experience..... 
     
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I-BkQL6nYU
             

    
 
 

Here is conclusive proof : Vaporization of steel CANNOT be attributed to fuel bawsed fires. Impossible. No so called ' debunker' can possibly explain the vaporization of steel and the physical evidence is beyond doubt.

Read it and weep, debunkers:

911blogger.com...

From the scientist that examined the evidence:

"•Astaneh-Asl said that steel flanges "had been reduced from an inch thick to paper thin." [3]
•At a recycling center in New Jersey, he saw 10-ton steel beams from the towers that "looked like giant sticks of twisted licorice." [4] He showed the San Francisco Chronicle a "banana-shaped, rust-colored piece of steel" that had somehow "twisted like toffee during the terrorist attack." [5]
•He noted the way steel from the WTC had bent at several connection points that had joined the floors to the vertical columns. He described the connections as being smoothly warped, saying, "If you remember the Salvador Dali paintings with the clocks that are kind of melted--it's kind of like that." He added, "That could only happen if you get steel yellow hot or white hot--perhaps around 2,000 degrees." [6]
•In an interview in 2007, Astaneh-Asl recalled, "I saw melting of girders in [the] World Trade Center." [7]
•He found a foot-long twisted shard of steel that was "like a piece of bread, but it was high-strength steel." He commented, "I haven't seen anything like this [before]." [8]
•He came across "severely scorched [steel] members from 40 or so floors below the points of impact [by the planes]." [9]
•The fireproofing that had been used to protect the WTC steel also showed evidence of extreme conditions. In some places it had "melted into a glassy residue." [10]
•Astaneh-Asl saw a charred I-beam from WTC Building 7--a 47-story skyscraper that collapsed late in the afternoon of 9/11, even though no plane hit it. "The beam, so named because its cross-section looks like a capital I, had clearly endured searing temperatures. Parts of the flat top of the I, once five-eighths of an inch thick, had vaporized." [11] "


So, 40 floors BELOW the impact points there was steel so scorched that it stood out; how on earth can any official story cultist explain incredible temperatures FAR BELOW where any fires were? They cannot! Simple.

The best evidence that the NIST report on the collapse of the WTC twin towers was severely flawed, and the towers could not have collapsed to the ground through "pancaking" as was concluded, can be found here.

found at the International Center for 911 Studies.

www.ic911studies.org...

Ie, multiple reports by international physicists, structural engineers, and other experts refuting the NIST conclusion.

Majik » 30 Jul 2023, 9:16 am » wrote: ↑

30 Jul 2023, 9:16 am

George Nelson, USAF Crash Investigator, claims that the planes reported to have been used on 911, were likely NOT the aircraft used in at least two of the cases, and the Pentagon was likely not hit by a Boeing 757 at all.

physics911.net...

          George Nelson wasn't at the Pentagon on 9/11..... 
Taxi Driver Lloyd England was there though --- and saw an Airplane knock down the Lamp Post that crushed his Cab and almost killed him..... 

Kobia2 » 30 Jul 2023, 9:04 am » wrote: ↑

30 Jul 2023, 9:04 am

             Look at my post below this #640.....
I included a still shot photo of one of the downed Street Light Posts that crushed a Taxi when it fell..... This was another of the smoking guns the inside jobbers insited didn't exist ----- so now we can expect to be told the FBI planted that Street Light and crushed taxi on the scene as well (with no one seeing them do so LOL)

No, it wasn't the FBI...lol.. there is something suspicious about that picture, the top of the lamppost has been neatly cut of yet the lamppost has been completely ripped out of the ground... and if it had enough force to do that than there should be parts of the wing cut of too.. as for no one seeing it, how hard could be to drive a taxi there, smash the windshield and plant a lamppost on the road when everyone is looking at the big burning hole in the Pentagon, you think they're going to pay any attention at what happens on the highway a few hundred yard away?

But again, I give you credit for trying...

 



 
 

Z09 » 30 Jul 2023, 9:25 am » wrote: ↑

30 Jul 2023, 9:25 am

This is one of the 911 Truth Sites..

Really gives no evidence at all...
Just questions why there's not more evidence that it really happened...

These are people that you can show footage and they'll argue with you

                     Agreed...
George Nelson himself claims "at least 2 of the Airplanes " involved in the 911 attacks were not the ones that actually were...
We have video and photographic evidence of American Airlines Flight 11 and Flight 175 flying into the North & South Towers of the World Trade Centre.... Physical evidence including the Flight Recorder and Pilot Voice Box (as well as body parts of passengers & crew identified through DNA)  were recovered at the crash site in PA... Even taking Flight 77 at the Pentagon off the table for laughs, that's at least 3 of the 4 Aircraft. LOL

Jantje_Smit » 30 Jul 2023, 9:34 am » wrote: ↑

30 Jul 2023, 9:34 am

No, it wasn't the FBI...lol.. there is something suspicious about that picture, the top of the lamppost has been neatly cut of yet the lamppost has been completely ripped out of the ground... and if it had enough force to do that than there should be parts of the wing cut of too.. as for no one seeing it, how hard could be to drive a taxi there, smash the windshield and plant a larnppost on the road when everyone is looking at the big burning hole in the Pentagon, you think they're going to pay any attention at what happens on the highway a few hundred yard away?

But again, I give you credit for trying...

 

         You cannot be serious...... LMAO
Did you actually watch the video of Taxi driver Lloyd England describe what happened (see my post #648).... Other witnesses saw the Street Light Post get knocked down by the Plane and land on his Taxi LOL.... But you are easily ready to dismiss the physical & eyewitness evidence here to embrace an additional conspiracy theory that a Taxi was planted on the scene --- smashed with bats --- a large Street Light Post was either planted on the scene as well, or was taken down by unknown entities & unknown means while every person there that day had their backs turned--- and the driver of the Taxi Mr. England is also complicit in the Pentagon attack?

        Keep in mind, Lloyd England was not a private or independent Taxi Driver.... He worked for Capitol Cab company, and was driving car #677 that day..... So now you need to tell us if Capitol Cab Company are also complicit in the Pentagon attack, or were they just completely unaware that one of their Cabs (or a replica) with the Company Logo on the door & Taxi Light on the roof was also hijacked and driven to the crash scene at the Pentagon... 

           

      
               
 

Z09 » 30 Jul 2023, 9:25 am » wrote: ↑

30 Jul 2023, 9:25 am

This is one of the 911 Truth Sites..

Really gives no evidence at all...
Just questions why there's not more evidence that it really happened...

These are people that you can show footage and they'll argue with you

Something that you need to understand is that the 9/11 Truth movement encompassed the full gamut of American scientific expertise like the USAF crash investigator mentioned in the link ....
From Pilots to Engineers to Physicists etc....whom all  poked a million holes in the official story ........
and you saying that a testimonial by a seasoned USAF crash investigator and many other professionals like him is not any evidence at all ......is purely you grasping at straws and taking the position of the government which to this day has not plugged the million holes poked into the official story.


 

Kobia2 » 30 Jul 2023, 9:24 am » wrote: ↑

30 Jul 2023, 9:24 am

          George Nelson wasn't at the Pentagon on 9/11..... 
Taxi Driver Lloyd England was there though --- and saw an Airplane knock down the Lamp Post that crushed his Cab and almost killed him..... 

No, but he knew from previous crash investigations and his own expertise that the official story was not true.....
Just like the thousands of Airilne pilots whom also questioned how an untrained pilot that only flew flight simulators and wasn't even that good at it could have hit the Pentagon never mind even finding it .....

 

Majik » 30 Jul 2023, 11:25 am » wrote: ↑

30 Jul 2023, 11:25 am

No, but he knew from previous crash investigations and his own expertise that the official story was not true.....
Just like the thousands of Airilne pilots whom also questioned how an untrained pilot that only flew flight simulators and wasn't even that good at it could have hit the Pentagon never mind even finding it .....

Ok. I'm throwing this out there for kicks
There used to be a scientist interviewed on the radio. Many times.
Top of the field. Credentials up the arss.
A woman as a matter of fact.
I can't remember her name... or the details.
 but she thought it was some kind of weapon.
not a missile- not a plane.
Do i think there were planes? yes- BOTH
i do not think they were enough to bring the buildings down.
AND
other then you!
 no one has addressed building number seven.
It was Not hit by a plane!
 the entire thing stinks to high heaven!

 

Z09 » 30 Jul 2023, 9:39 am » wrote: ↑

30 Jul 2023, 9:39 am

So now the taxi driver smashed his windshield planted a lamp post of the road...
For what purpose?

Christ...
Another person in the conspiracy?

I see nothing suspicious about this photo

Not planted .....
from the security footage of the projectile hitting the Pentagon it was going extremely fast and the taxi driver could have mistaken a plane for another projectile that resembled a plane.
When was the taxi driver's statement taken ?
which matters ....a lot.

 

Z09 » 30 Jul 2023, 11:49 am » wrote: ↑

30 Jul 2023, 11:49 am

A millions holes in the official story?

I simply don't believe a missile hit the Pentagon and all these witnesses were lying...

And members of Congress were lying
And Norad
And air traffic controllers.
And people on the plane that called family members..
And now a taxi driver smashed his own windshield
And phony FBI agents..
And of course the 87 witnesses that documented seeing an American Airlines jet flying low close to Pentagon right before the crash

I just don't think these hundreds of people could keep a secret this big for 5 minutes nevermind 22 years....

And once again..
Where's the plane?

OFFICIAL ACCOUNT OF 9/11 FLIGHT CONTRADICTED BY GOVERNMENT'S OWN DATA
pilotsfor911truth.org...

UNITED 93 DATA PROVIDED BY US GOVERNMENT DOES NOT SUPPORT OBSERVED EVENTS
pilotsfor911truth.org...

Speeds Reported For World Trade Center Attack Aircraft Analyzed
pilotsfor911truth.org...

NASA Flight Director Confirms 9/11 Aircraft Speed As The "Elephant In The Room"
pilotsfor911truth.org...

9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE
pilotsfor911truth.org...

United 93 Still Airborne After Alleged Crash - According To ATC/Radar
pilotsfor911truth.org...

Physical Damage To Pentagon Impossible Based on Witness Statements/Observations
pilotsfor911truth.org...
www.citizeninvestigationteam.com...

F.B.I. Counsel: No Attempt Made By F.B.I. To Formally Identify 9/11 Plane Wreckage
pilotsfor911truth.org...

The Lack of Foundation Damage at the Pentagon is Irreconcilable with the Official Reports and Data
pilotsfor911truth.org...

Arlington Topography, Obstacles Make American 77 Final Leg Impossible
pilotsfor911truth.org...