Liberal Forum

Nostradamus'omh » 02 Aug 2023, 2:24 pm » wrote: ↑

02 Aug 2023, 2:24 pm

Is that supposed to anger me or disgrace yourself? 

Neither. It was supposed to make you laugh. 

Vegas » 02 Aug 2023, 2:25 pm » wrote: ↑

02 Aug 2023, 2:25 pm

Neither. It was supposed to make you laugh. 

why do you think I wasn't laughing in my response. Doesn't change you prefer to ignore how evolving actually works in plain sight. I cannot change your mind, because you only have the brain you were born with, not the social identity you serve cradle to grave.

by the way, I am still laughing.

Z09 » 02 Aug 2023, 2:26 pm » wrote: ↑

02 Aug 2023, 2:26 pm

A spokesman for the company could not identify the plane part..

And then he says...":I'm not a mechanic...!!!....I'm just the spokesman for the company"

It's like a "gotcha" question....
When the fact  his complete answer wasn't posted in headlines.....

In YOUR link...
..Not mine Vegas...
The last sentence clearly said...."this didn't come from any missile.."
And an engineer stated that
Not a "spokesman"

Quote:
This engineer concluded with the intriguing comment, "This fan did not come from a cruise missile engine."

Didn't come from the plan that the 9/11 commission report says it did, either. 

Vegas » 22 Jul 2023, 12:05 pm » wrote: ↑

22 Jul 2023, 12:05 pm

I have started many threads about this...well, here is another one. 

Pentagon: Where is the **** plane? 
Building 7: What the **** caused that collapse? It wasn't hit. And building fires don't cause a straight down collapse...they just  burn.
Twin Towers: Engineers have repeatedly said that the impacts of the plane and jet fuel could not take down those towers, especially straight down like that. 
Amateur pilots: How the hell can 19 rag heads, with barely any flight experience, fly those gigantic planes with such precision?

WTC short video...

https://gab.com/Robert55/posts/11082480 ... 30/media/1
 
 

Mrkelly » 02 Aug 2023, 11:36 am » wrote: ↑

02 Aug 2023, 11:36 am

https://youtu.be/OHT0gH8O1PE

      This was a report from Bob Franken CNN.....

    Here is the transcript of the conversation Franken had with his witness Tim Timmerman (a Pilot) that he begins his commentary with... FRanken didn't see anything large enough to distinguish it as an Aircraft because the plane disintegrated as explained by Timmerman... Timmerman also believed the plane struck short of the building, but when the smoke cleared he could see the hole. 

    http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0109/11/bn.32.html
   
     FRANKEN: You are a pilot. Tell us what you saw. TIMMERMAN: I was looking out the window; I live on the 16th floor, overlooking the Pentagon, in a corner apartment, so I have quite a panorama. And being next to National Airport, I hear jets all the time, but this jet engine was way too loud. I looked out to the southwest, and it came right down 395, right over Colombia Pike, and as is went by the Sheraton Hotel, the pilot added power to the engines. I heard it pull up a little bit more, and then I lost it behind a building.

       And then it came out, and I saw it hit right in front of -- it didn't appear to crash into the building; most of the energy was dissipated in hitting the ground, but I saw the nose break up, I saw the wings fly forward, and then the conflagration engulfed everything in flames. It was horrible.

FRANKEN: What can you tell us about the plane itself?

TIMMERMAN: It was a Boeing 757, American Airlines, no question.

FRANKEN: You say that it was a Boeing, and you say it was a 757 or 767?

TIMMERMAN: 7-5-7.

FRANKEN: 757, which, of course...

TIMMERMAN: American Airlines.

FRANKEN: American Airlines, one of the new generation of jets.

TIMMERMAN: Right. It was so close to me it was like looking out my window and looking at a helicopter. It was just right there.

FRANKEN: We were told that it was flying so low that it clipped off a couple of light poles as it was coming in.

TIMMERMAN: That might have happened behind the apartments that occluded my view.

And when it reappeared, it was right before impact, and like I said, it was right before impact, and I saw the airplane just disintegrate and blow up into a huge ball of flames.

FRANKEN: So there was a fireball that you saw?

TIMMERMAN: Absolutely. And the building shook, and it was quite a tremendous explosion.

FRANKEN: What did you see after that?

 TIMMERMAN: Nothing but the flames. I sat here, and I took a few pictures out of my window, and I noticed the fire trucks and the responses was just wonderful. Fire trucks were there quickly. I saw the area; the building didn't look very damaged initially, but I do see now, looking out my window, there's quite a chunk in it. But I think the blessing here might have been that the airplane hit before it hit the building, it hit the ground, and a lot of energy might have gone that way. That's what it appeared like.

 
 

Kobia2 » 03 Aug 2023, 9:50 am » wrote: ↑

03 Aug 2023, 9:50 am

      This was a report from Bob Franken CNN.....

    Here is the transcript of the conversation Franken had with his witness Tim Timmerman (a Pilot) that he begins his commentary with... FRanken didn't see anything large enough to distinguish it as an Aircraft because the plane disintegrated as explained by Timmerman... Timmerman also believed the plane struck short of the building, but when the smoke cleared he could see the hole. 

    http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0109/11/bn.32.html
   
     FRANKEN: You are a pilot. Tell us what you saw. TIMMERMAN: I was looking out the window; I live on the 16th floor, overlooking the Pentagon, in a corner apartment, so I have quite a panorama. And being next to National Airport, I hear jets all the time, but this jet engine was way too loud. I looked out to the southwest, and it came right down 395, right over Colombia Pike, and as is went by the Sheraton Hotel, the pilot added power to the engines. I heard it pull up a little bit more, and then I lost it behind a building.

       And then it came out, and I saw it hit right in front of -- it didn't appear to crash into the building; most of the energy was dissipated in hitting the ground, but I saw the nose break up, I saw the wings fly forward, and then the conflagration engulfed everything in flames. It was horrible.

FRANKEN: What can you tell us about the plane itself?

TIMMERMAN: It was a Boeing 757, American Airlines, no question.

FRANKEN: You say that it was a Boeing, and you say it was a 757 or 767?

TIMMERMAN: 7-5-7.

FRANKEN: 757, which, of course...

TIMMERMAN: American Airlines.

FRANKEN: American Airlines, one of the new generation of jets.

TIMMERMAN: Right. It was so close to me it was like looking out my window and looking at a helicopter. It was just right there.

FRANKEN: We were told that it was flying so low that it clipped off a couple of light poles as it was coming in.

TIMMERMAN: That might have happened behind the apartments that occluded my view.

And when it reappeared, it was right before impact, and like I said, it was right before impact, and I saw the airplane just disintegrate and blow up into a huge ball of flames.

FRANKEN: So there was a fireball that you saw?

TIMMERMAN: Absolutely. And the building shook, and it was quite a tremendous explosion.

FRANKEN: What did you see after that?

 TIMMERMAN: Nothing but the flames. I sat here, and I took a few pictures out of my window, and I noticed the fire trucks and the responses was just wonderful. Fire trucks were there quickly. I saw the area; the building didn't look very damaged initially, but I do see now, looking out my window, there's quite a chunk in it. But I think the blessing here might have been that the airplane hit before it hit the building, it hit the ground, and a lot of energy might have gone that way. That's what it appeared like.

Lie. All lies. LOL. 

Witnesses see a plane in the air, diving toward the Pentagon, but we can't find the plane at the pentagon or anywhere else? What I am saying is that if I am left with a choice between two options that contradict, but one has to be true, then I use Occam's Razor. Physical evidence versus testimonies. I am choosing physical evidence...and common sense. 

Kobia2 » 01 Aug 2023, 5:20 pm » wrote: ↑

01 Aug 2023, 5:20 pm

         We've been through this....
Look at the Pic again..... That cluster of Lights is in the lower right portion of the photo ---- closer to one of the Parking Lots... They were not in the path of the Plane when it struck the building... 

        

       

 
                Since you've brought the discussion back to photographs ----- This Link is to a Site which lists all the Missiles in our US Arsenal, complete with Pictures of each....... Tell me which one you believe all the eyewitnesses mistook for a Commercial Airliner.... I'll help you out on this one, when you browse through these Pics, I'm guessing you will choose the White & Red BGM-109 Tomahawk Missile..... But unfortunately it will do nothing to support your Theory, because few to none would mistake a Tomahawk Missile that is 16 ft long with a 8.5 ft wingspan for a 155 ft long Boeing 757 with a 125 ft wingspan....  So you tell me what other type of Missile it could be please. 

            https://military-history.fandom.com/wik ... s_military

And yet the hole in the Pentagon is right in the middle between the lampposts, how could it show that if it was taken from near the parking lot?

But you're right, I would pick the Tomahawk cruise missile.. and it supports my theory, what I said to zo9 about the witnesses, if it was going 500mph it would only be visble for half a second or so, all they saw was a silvery flash with some red on it (like that video), they didn't know what it was but the hysterical media says it was a plane so that must have been what they saw.. they embellished their story a bit (or a lot..lol) and when the media asked for witnesses they saw a chance for their 15 minutes of fame.. most of them didn't lie, they convinced themselves that's what they saw...

 


 

Jantje_Smit » 03 Aug 2023, 11:07 am » wrote: ↑

03 Aug 2023, 11:07 am

And yet the hole in the Pentagon is right in the middle between the lamppost, how could it show that if it was taken from near the parking lot?

But you're right, I would pick the Tomahawk cruise missile.. and it supports my theory, what I said to zo9 about the witnesses, if it was going 500mph it would only be visble for half a second or so, all they saw was a silvery flash with some red on it (like that video), they didn't know what it was but the hysterical media says it was a plane so that must have been what they saw.. they embellished their story a bit (or a lot..lol) and when the media asked for witnesses the saw a chance for their 15 minutes of fame.. most of them didn't lie, they convinced themselves that's what they saw...

 

Lampposts have a mind of their own. They probably just hopped out of the way or ducked. Lol

Jantje_Smit » 03 Aug 2023, 11:07 am » wrote: ↑

03 Aug 2023, 11:07 am

And yet the hole in the Pentagon is right in the middle between the lamppost, how could it show that if it was taken from near the parking lot?

But you're right, I would pick the Tomahawk cruise missile.. and it supports my theory, what I said to zo9 about the witnesses, if it was going 500mph it would only be visble for half a second or so, all they saw was a silvery flash with some red on it (like that video), they didn't know what it was but the hysterical media says it was a plane so that must have been what they saw.. they embellished their story a bit (or a lot..lol) and when the media asked for witnesses the saw a chance for their 15 minutes of fame.. most of them didn't lie, they convinced themselves that's what they saw...

 

           So it is your belief every single witness who saw A large commercial Airlines (many identifying specifically as an American Airlines) from a variety of distances and locations approaching / hitting the Pentagon  ALL mistook a 16 ft long Missile with an 8.5 ft wingspan for a 155 ft long Boeing 757 with a 125 ft wingspan ( some seeing the AA Logo on the Tail) --- and many for the purpose of 15 minutes of fame?... Yet not a soul in the world witnessed anything remotely described as a Missile in the skies at the Pentagon that day, and without a shred of any type of evidence you are 1000% convinced that's what it was... The burdon & standard of proof you ask of everyone is not being applied to your own assertions & storyline... 

           The last video I posted showed an animation of the Plane's path when it struck the Pentagon.... The animation included all 5 Light Posts that were indeed in the Plane's path that were knocked down by the wings of the 757 before impacting the Pentagon...Witnesses saw the Plane's wings hitting them...  This was supported by actual photographic evidence of the 5 downed Light Posts, and their locations... The first photographs I posted depicting 2 of the downed Posts included the one which came down on the DC Cab driven by Lloyd England -- You asserted that both the car and the lamp post were planted and then damaged when none of the 1000s of people there were looking as part of the conspiracy.... 
 

Kobia2 » 03 Aug 2023, 1:58 pm » wrote: ↑

03 Aug 2023, 1:58 pm

          
           The last video I posted showed an animation of the Plane's path when it struck the Pentagon.... The animation included all 5 Light Posts that were indeed in the Plane's path that were knocked down by the wings of the 757 before impacting the Pentagon...Witnesses saw the Plane's wings hitting them...  This was supported by actual photographic evidence of the 5 downed Light Posts, and their locations... The first photographs I posted depicting 2 of the downed Posts included the one which came down on the DC Cab driven by Lloyd England -- You asserted that both the car and the lamp post were planted and then damaged when none of the 1000s of people there were looking as part of the conspiracy.... 

Those animations are only an illustration of the narrative itself. It's not hard to make those. Give me a script, and I'll make an animation out of it. Hollywood does it all the time. 

Vegas » 03 Aug 2023, 9:57 am » wrote: ↑

03 Aug 2023, 9:57 am

Lie. All lies. LOL. 

Witnesses see a plane in the air, diving toward the Pentagon, but we can't find the plane at the pentagon or anywhere else? What I am saying is that if I am left with a choice between two options that contradict, but one has to be true, then I use Occam's Razor. Physical evidence versus testimonies. I am choosing physical evidence...and common sense.

                 So every eye witness is lying -- mistaken -- or complicit in the murder of 3000 of their fellow citizens that day..... Every single piece of aircraft debris photographed was taken from somewhere other than the Pentagon or planted there ---- despite your having been provided the sources of who took these pictures , and when they were taken... Flight 77's Flight Recorders which were discovered by  Allyn E. Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC also must have been planted in there ... Kilsheimer also reported seeing body parts and pieces of Flight Crew uniforms -- again he must be lying.. You were shown photographic evidence of 5 downed Light Posts on the PLanes path to the building, and the distance between (width) proves it impossible a Missile hit them, because a Missile traveling over 500 Mph cannot stop mid flight, do a zig zag maneuver, then resume flight at 500mph.. You deny this reality of physics as well.. You have been shown numerous photos of Aircraft parts & debris photographed at the Pentagon, both inside & outside the impact site, yet you dismiss all of it, because you think the Tail of the PLane should have remained intact and sticking out of the hole in the Bldg... The Plane is 155 feet long.... It reached a distance inside of 310 feet, which meant it impacted the 3 outer rings (C,D,E)

                 In short, your assertion is every single piece of physical evidence must have been fabricated , planted or manipulated... You discredit every single eyewitness... The recovery teams who brought the intermingled corpses, body parts and pieces of flesh to the Pentagon's temporary Morgue at the North Parking lot are also liars or co-conspirators,  ----- The Medical team of Forensic Anthropologists at Dover Air Base  who used DNA to identify these remains are also liars and conspirators --- -because according to you, didn't get on an airplane that day -- or simply never existed...  You haven't a single shred of hard evidence that anything other than American Airlines Flight 77 Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon on 9/11 --- You cannot provide the names or proof of any of the players involved who planned & orchestrated what would have to be the greatest inside job conspiracy & cover up in the history of the world... For the Inside Jobber's narrative to fit, there would have to have literally been hundreds if not thousands of people involved  --- yet 20 years on they still only have suspicions, accusations and theories. 

              We are in disagreement as to what constitutes common sense... 
 

Vegas » 03 Aug 2023, 2:01 pm » wrote: ↑

03 Aug 2023, 2:01 pm

Those animations are only an illustration of the narrative itself. It's not hard to make those. Give me a script, and I'll make an animation out of it. Hollywood does it all the time.

             I specifically told you what was important was the real photos and locations of the downed 5 Light Posts..... When I first posted pics of 2 of the Light Posts, you conceded you were unaware of them, and did not deny their authenticity..... One was a photo of the downed Posts that hit Lloyd England's Taxi.. Are you now going to change course and deny the existence of these 5 Posts, the photographic evidence showing exactly where they stood & fell, and the fact the distance between them would have made it impossible for  a Missile to have ricocheted in a zig-zag pattern to down them before hitting the Building? 

Kobia2 » 03 Aug 2023, 2:46 pm » wrote: ↑

03 Aug 2023, 2:46 pm

                2. The Plane is 125 feet long.... It reached a distance inside of 310 feet, which meant it impacted the 3 outer rings (C,D,E)

                 In short, your assertion is every single piece of physical evidence must have been fabricated , planted or manipulated... You discredit every single eyewitness... The recovery teams who brought the intermingled corpses, body parts and pieces of flesh to the Pentagon's temporary Morgue at the North Parking lot are also liars or co-conspirators,  ----- The Medical team of Forensic Anthropologists at Dover Air Base  who used DNA to identify these remains are also liars and conspirators --- -because according to you, didn't get on an airplane that day -- or simply never existed...  You haven't a single shred of hard evidence that anything other than American Airlines Flight 77 Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon on 9/11 --- You cannot provide the names or proof of any of the players involved who planned & orchestrated what would have to be the greatest inside job conspiracy & cover up in the history of the world... For the Inside Jobber's narrative to fit, there would have to have literally been hundreds if not thousands of people involved  --- yet 20 years on they still only have suspicions, accusations and theories. 

              We are in disagreement as to what constitutes common sense... 

1. The wingspan is 125 feet long, not the length of the plane. The hole width is 75ft wide. 
2. The only evidence that you have is what people said and what was written in the report. That's it. You aren't giving anything physical. Just what so and so said. Them saying they have physical evidence does not mean that they have physical evidence. 

Kobia2 » 03 Aug 2023, 2:51 pm » wrote: ↑

03 Aug 2023, 2:51 pm

             I specifically told you what was important was the real photos and locations of the downed 5 Light Posts..... When I first posted pics of 2 of the Light Posts, you conceded you were unaware of them, and did not deny their authenticity..... One was a photo of the downed Posts that hit Lloyd England's Taxi.. Are you now going to change course and deny the existence of these 5 Posts, the photographic evidence showing exactly where they stood & fell, and the fact the distance between them would have made it impossible for  a Missile to have ricocheted in a zig-zag pattern to down them before hitting the Building? 

I recently looked at pics of these light posts from a birds eye view and a distance. I see no light posts down. I see them down in the animation, but where are they down in the real pics? 

@Kobia2  Where are the downed light posts?

Vegas » 03 Aug 2023, 2:53 pm » wrote: ↑

03 Aug 2023, 2:53 pm

1. The wingspan is 125 feet long, not the length of the plane. The hole width is 75ft wide. 
2. The only evidence that you have is what people said and what was written in the report. That's it. You aren't giving anything physical. Just what so and so said. Them saying they have physical evidence does not mean that they have physical evidence.

             Correction... the PLane is 155 feet long, with a wing span of 125 feet..... If the Plane is 155 feet long and parts of it reached over 300 feet inside the outer wall of the Pentagon, why would it be impossible according to you that the Tail would not have also traveled inside the building>? The Wings are far lighter than the fuselage of a Plane, and certainly not as strong as reinforced concrete.... You have convinced yourself the plane should have made a cookie-cutter type of hole in the building in the shape of the plane --- the reality is the wings most likely disintegrated when it struck the building as reported by witness . pilot Tim Timmerman, with some of the small pieces going inside with the rest of the plane, and some outside.. 

Vegas » 03 Aug 2023, 2:56 pm » wrote: ↑

03 Aug 2023, 2:56 pm

I recently looked at pics of these light posts from a birds eye view and a distance. I see no light posts down. I see them down in the animation, but where are they down in the real pics?

          Watch the Video again.... The animation stops when it depicts the Plane's wings clipping these 5 Light Posts.... with each Post the animation stops, and an actual photo of the Light Post is shown at that location..... 4 of those Posts are on the opposite side of the street of the picture you posted, so they wouldn't be in that photo.... Watch the video again.

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDdjLQkUV8
 

Kobia2 » 03 Aug 2023, 3:07 pm » wrote: ↑

03 Aug 2023, 3:07 pm

          Watch the Video again.... The animation stops when it depicts the Plane's wings clipping these 5 Light Posts.... with each Post the animation stops, and an actual photo of the Light Post is shown at that location..... 4 of those Posts are on the opposite side of the street of the picture you posted, so they wouldn't be in that photo.... Watch the video again.

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDdjLQkUV8

Some of the pics are difficult to make out. However, this one may be better. Go to 1:36 on your animation - Lamp post 5. Two things: 

1. The lamp post in the lawn area, where your animation shows, is still there. Am I wrong? If I am, then what am I seeing? 
2. The other posts were right in the path of the plane, but are standing. I admit that it's hard to see , due to this distance, but it seems to be the same poles that your animation is showing. 

Z09 » 03 Aug 2023, 3:24 pm » wrote: ↑

03 Aug 2023, 3:24 pm

Tell us....
Why didn't these people report a missile?

Because they convinced themselves it was a plane. Just like the others. 

Z09 » 03 Aug 2023, 3:23 pm » wrote: ↑

03 Aug 2023, 3:23 pm

There's numerous photos of the down lamp posts

Again, I am asking for pics of ones that show they are from the pentagon. We went over this.