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9/11 was an inside job. Change my mind.
9/11 was an inside job. Change my mind.
By Vegas
22 Jul 2023 12:05 pm in No Holds Barred Political Forum
4 Aug 2023 12:44 am
@Kobia2
This is from a site that attempts to debunk theories from people like me, LOL. It's their counter to claims, from myself and many others, that the pentagon was not hit by a plane.
1. Read the sentence that I put in bold. This has been my issue. One wing disintegrated, but the other sheared off due to its lightweight. It sheared off, it didn't disintegrate. According to their own claim, it couldn't penetrate the wall. Therefore, it couldn't be inside the hole. However, there is no indication of it being outside it either. Not in the lawn, not anywhere. Many commercial pilots have come forward with their doubts. They don't believe that it's possible for most of the plane to be inside the pentagon because of how reinforced the pentagon was. Especially the tail. The tail of a Boeing 757 has height of 44 feet. They are baffled as to how that could be in little piece inside the pentagon. The tail should be laying around outside somewhere.
2. The last paragraph is going off of a testimony. With all of the examples of scientists, researchers, and engineers selling out, I have a difficult time trusting their words.
This is from a site that attempts to debunk theories from people like me, LOL. It's their counter to claims, from myself and many others, that the pentagon was not hit by a plane.
1. Read the sentence that I put in bold. This has been my issue. One wing disintegrated, but the other sheared off due to its lightweight. It sheared off, it didn't disintegrate. According to their own claim, it couldn't penetrate the wall. Therefore, it couldn't be inside the hole. However, there is no indication of it being outside it either. Not in the lawn, not anywhere. Many commercial pilots have come forward with their doubts. They don't believe that it's possible for most of the plane to be inside the pentagon because of how reinforced the pentagon was. Especially the tail. The tail of a Boeing 757 has height of 44 feet. They are baffled as to how that could be in little piece inside the pentagon. The tail should be laying around outside somewhere.
2. The last paragraph is going off of a testimony. With all of the examples of scientists, researchers, and engineers selling out, I have a difficult time trusting their words.
THE PENTAGON ATTACK
How can a 125ft plane cause just a 16ft wide hole?
A Boeing 757 commercial airliner is 125ft wide and 155ft long. However, the plane that smashed into the Pentagon left an entry hole just 16ft across and an exit hole of just 12ft wide. How is this possible, ask sceptics? As far as many people are concerned, it is more likely that the Pentagon was hit by a satellite-guided missile controlled by the US military.
The official ASCE Pentagon Building Performance Report estimates that the hole punched into the outer E-Ring of the Pentagon’s reinforced concrete walls was actually about 75ft across, not 16ft, as has been widely misreported. That Flight 77 didn’t leave a 125ft, plane-shaped hole in the building is accounted for by the fact that one of the plane’s wings disintegrated when it hit the ground before impact and the other wing sheared off on impact, being of too lightweight a construction to penetrate reinforced concrete. The C-ring impact exit hole was, in fact, 12ft wide, not 16ft, and was most likely caused by the aircraft’s much sturdier landing gear punching its way through the building.Where’s the debris?Many point to the lack of debris in official photos taken after the plane hit the side of the Pentagon. When planes crash, they usually leave behind huge quantities of debris. How come a large commercial airliner hit a building yet left hardly any wreckage behind?MOST OF FLIGHT 77 ENDED UP INSIDE THE PENTAGON, NOT OUTSIDE IT.This claim is directly disputed by eyewitnesses who were first to respond. This includes Allyn E. Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC in Washington. Kilsheimer was the man who found Flight 77’s black box recorder, as well as holding sections of the plane’s tail in his hands and observing a wing impact mark on the side of the building before a large section of the Pentagon’s outer wall collapsed. He also saw bits of body parts scattered around the crash site, as well as crew uniforms and passenger clothing. Also, most of Flight 77 ended up inside the Pentagon, not outside it.
https://www.history.co.uk/article/the-b ... s-debunked
Blackvegatble's hypcorisy summed up in one post:
[/size]
Blackvegetable » 7 minutes ago » wrote: ↑7 minutes ago
Very simple questions...
From which you are running...
Blackvegetable » 7 minutes ago » wrote: ↑7 minutes ago
Very simple questions...
From which you are running...
4 Aug 2023 12:46 am
Bruce » 04 Aug 2023, 12:20 am » wrote: ↑ The center fuselage of a 757 is 12 feet six inches.
It weighed well over 200,000 pounds (100 tons) and was traveling 530 miles an hour (777 feet per second)
It was had the most destructive energy of any missile ever fired in world history. The energy was in billions or trillions of foot pounds.
As it passed through the aft section expanded, blowing out a 75 foot diameter hole.
Something that fierce, with a 125 foot wingspan, should have blown out a lot more than 75 feet.
Blackvegatble's hypcorisy summed up in one post:
[/size]
Blackvegetable » 7 minutes ago » wrote: ↑7 minutes ago
Very simple questions...
From which you are running...
Blackvegetable » 7 minutes ago » wrote: ↑7 minutes ago
Very simple questions...
From which you are running...
4 Aug 2023 2:21 am
You can't believe spokespeople, they don't know what they are talking about.. but you can believe the witnesses that say they saw a plane, forget about missing pictures, wreckage, too small holes, lampposts and other things that don't make sense.. they can't possibly all be lying, so there.. that invalidates your arguments.. zo9 'logic' at work...Vegas » 02 Aug 2023, 2:15 pm » wrote: ↑ Yes, you are reaching.
So now we can't even believe spokespeople, huh? How do you think you got all of your information from?
In memory of Pumpkins
4 Aug 2023 2:40 am
I have arguments and (missing) evidence to support my assertations & storyline, all you and zo9 have is.. but the witnesses said...Kobia2 » 03 Aug 2023, 1:58 pm » wrote: ↑ So it is your belief every single witness who saw A large commercial Airlines (many identifying specifically as an American Airlines) from a variety of distances and locations approaching / hitting the Pentagon ALL mistook a 16 ft long Missile with an 8.5 ft wingspan for a 155 ft long Boeing 757 with a 125 ft wingspan ( some seeing the AA Logo on the Tail) --- and many for the purpose of 15 minutes of fame?... Yet not a soul in the world witnessed anything remotely described as a Missile in the skies at the Pentagon that day, and without a shred of any type of evidence you are 1000% convinced that's what it was... The burdon & standard of proof you ask of everyone is not being applied to your own assertions & storyline...
But I don't mind, I had this 'discussion' before, it brings back fun memories.. so about that animation.. compare this part to the picture you posted.. yeah, it's those lampposts again...The last video I posted showed an animation of the Plane's path when it struck the Pentagon.... The animation included all 5 Light Posts that were indeed in the Plane's path that were knocked down by the wings of the 757 before impacting the Pentagon...Witnesses saw the Plane's wings hitting them... This was supported by actual photographic evidence of the 5 downed Light Posts, and their locations... The first photographs I posted depicting 2 of the downed Posts included the one which came down on the DC Cab driven by Lloyd England -- You asserted that both the car and the lamp post were planted and then damaged when none of the 1000s of people there were looking as part of the conspiracy....
In memory of Pumpkins
4 Aug 2023 6:16 am
As I just told the rear admiral..
In memory of Pumpkins
4 Aug 2023 6:20 am
That picture wasn't taken in the flight path the plane collided with the building. It is a good 20 degrees off to the left. Oops I wasn't supposed to notice. wonder what the magnification on the lens was to make it look closer than where they were.Vegas » 03 Aug 2023, 12:39 pm » wrote: ↑ Lampposts have a mind of their own. They probably just hopped out of the way or ducked. Lol
4 Aug 2023 6:59 am
Maybe you missed the title of the thread... we are not here to answer your questions, if you want to change people's mind that 9/11 wasn't an inside job you should answer some questions yourself...Z09 » 04 Aug 2023, 6:21 am » wrote: ↑
The questions are endless and you two just opens up with more and more people involved in your conspiracy.
Like, why aren't there any pictures of a plane hitting the Pentagon while there are plenty of them hitting the towers?
In memory of Pumpkins
4 Aug 2023 8:19 am
Vegas » 03 Aug 2023, 11:59 pm » wrote: ↑ 1. I freely admit that I cannot say with certainty that the post I see in my pic is the same as the one in this schematic and in your animation. The yellow dot to the left of the middle plane, in the schematic, is the one that, to me anyway, is the same one in my pic, which is still standing. Yet, it was supposed to be clipped. Again, with the congestion and obstructions, I admit that I cannot say it is the same one with certainty.
2. I see the angle to which the plane hit. I still cannot see how the hole could only be 75 feet wide. That wing span is 125 feet. According to the sketch above, the hole doesn't account for that. I'll check the dimensions again. I was certain that the hole was 75 feet wide though. Maybe it was wider and I was misinformed.
Your Pic was taken at ground level.... I think the aerial photos show a more accurate depiction of where these Light Posts actually stood, and were downed... As I mentioned, some of the photos taken at ground level made it appear there was a bunching of these Posts in front of the point of impact --- when we can clearly see from above they were at a roundabout closer to the parking lot.. Even if choosing to discount the Post you have in question, that still leaves the 4 remaining Posts... Again, the way these Posts are positioned and the distance (width) between them, it would have taken an aircraft with a wide enough wingspan to hit them.... Missiles do not have such wingspans...
The Fuselage of the Plane is much heavier than the wings and impacted the building nose- first -- punching the hole we see in the photos... In Robert Franken's (CNN) interview with Pilot Tim Timmerman we discussed, Timmerman describes the plane disintegrated on impact ---- this was most likely the wings... The momentum of the fuselage pulled this debris into the building... Debris from the 155 ft long 757 reached 310 feet, breaching E (the point of impact) Ring, D Ring and finally ending at C Ring.. I don't see it as a far reach the Tail following the rest of the plane into the building.... I just think many people were mistaken to believe the Plane would have punched a cookie cutter type hole in the shape of a Plane like we saw more inline with the first Tower that was struck at the World Trade Center... The difference was the wall construction of the buildings...
4 Aug 2023 8:45 am
lol... I actually answered your questions, you're the one that hasn't answered a single one of mine..Z09 » 04 Aug 2023, 8:31 am » wrote: ↑ "you're not here to answer questions..."
I cruise missile is sent from 1000 miles away on a morning that the entire country, air traffic controllers and NORAD is on high alert...
But you won't answer questions...?
It's because you can't...
Nah, I'm not going to bother with the copy/paste of my own quotes anymore, too much trouble and it won't do any good with team clueless anyway...
But you're welcome to prove me wrong, try to find a post of yourself where you actually answer a question..
In memory of Pumpkins
4 Aug 2023 8:52 am
Jantje_Smit » 04 Aug 2023, 2:40 am » wrote: ↑ I have arguments and (missing) evidence to support my assertations & storyline, all you and zo9 have is.. but the witnesses said...
But I don't mind, I had this 'discussion' before, it brings back fun memories.. so about that animation.. compare this part to the picture you posted.. yeah, it's those lampposts again...
See my Post #953
4 Aug 2023 9:40 am
I saw that, it's easy to draw a bunch of dots, not so easy to come up with pictures of knocked down lampposts... but just for fun I looked up that picture of the planted one with the taxi.. I'm trying to match that with the yellow dots but I'm not having much luck.. there are lampposts still standing behing the taxi, those should be blue dots... the only one I can think of is the far left one but then the parking lot or at least the corner of the Pentagon should be visible in the picture but it isn't...
In memory of Pumpkins
4 Aug 2023 9:41 am
Good luck with thatJantje_Smit » 04 Aug 2023, 8:45 am » wrote: ↑
But you're welcome to prove me wrong, try to find a post of yourself where you actually answer a question..
all he does is butwhatabout
4 Aug 2023 10:30 am
Kobia2 » 04 Aug 2023, 8:19 am » wrote: ↑
Your Pic was taken at ground level.... I think the aerial photos show a more accurate depiction of where these Light Posts actually stood, and were downed... As I mentioned, some of the photos taken at ground level made it appear there was a bunching of these Posts in front of the point of impact --- when we can clearly see from above they were at a roundabout closer to the parking lot.. Even if choosing to discount the Post you have in question, that still leaves the 4 remaining Posts... Again, the way these Posts are positioned and the distance (width) between them, it would have taken an aircraft with a wide enough wingspan to hit them.... Missiles do not have such wingspans...
The Fuselage of the Plane is much heavier than the wings and impacted the building nose- first -- punching the hole we see in the photos... In Robert Franken's (CNN) interview with Pilot Tim Timmerman we discussed, Timmerman describes the plane disintegrated on impact ---- this was most likely the wings... The momentum of the fuselage pulled this debris into the building... Debris from the 155 ft long 757 reached 310 feet, breaching E (the point of impact) Ring, D Ring and finally ending at C Ring.. I don't see it as a far reach the Tail following the rest of the plane into the building.... I just think many people were mistaken to believe the Plane would have punched a cookie cutter type hole in the shape of a Plane like we saw more inline with the first Tower that was struck at the World Trade Center... The difference was the wall construction of the buildings...
You make valid points. The first part, regarding the lamp posts, I am going to have to keep my mouth shut, because I am unable to see what happened to the 5 posts in real pics, one way or the other. I understand what your animation and sketch is saying. However, to me, it's still incredibly difficult to match up real pics to the animation and sketch. I understand their pics, but I am trying to find evidence that those pics are the ones from the pentagon.
I am still sketchy about the explanations into why most of the debris was supposedly inside the pentagon. The explanation and the animation does not accurately depict the hole. Both claimed, as do I, that at least the left wing had hit the outside of the hole. Let's assume it disintegrated, as claimed. There is no evidence of it hitting the outside wall. No scratches, no burns, no chips or even a divot, just nothing. The claim also is that the right wing hit the ground before it hit the wall, then disintegrated from the explosion. Again, there is nothing on the lawn or before the building that indicates that happened. The animation shows the plane going in on an angle, it doesn't show it hitting the ground first. However, when listening to some experts who try to debunk people like me, they have said that the plane hit the ground first, then went into the building. On the other hand, some experts, who try to debunk people like me, say the plane never hit the ground first. Their stories aren't matching with each other. Nor do they match the pic of the hole.
Blackvegatble's hypcorisy summed up in one post:
[/size]
Blackvegetable » 7 minutes ago » wrote: ↑7 minutes ago
Very simple questions...
From which you are running...
Blackvegetable » 7 minutes ago » wrote: ↑7 minutes ago
Very simple questions...
From which you are running...
4 Aug 2023 10:30 am
Jantje_Smit » 04 Aug 2023, 9:40 am » wrote: ↑ I saw that, it's easy to draw a bunch of dots, not so easy to come up with pictures of knocked down lampposts... but just for fun I looked up that picture of the planted one with the taxi.. I'm trying to match that with the yellow dots but I'm not having much luck.. there are lampposts still standing behing the taxi, those should be blue dots... the only one I can think of is the far left one but then the parking lot or at least the corner of the Pentagon should be visible in the picture but it isn't...
This Light Post pictured that came down on the Taxi was the first one knocked down, and was the furthest most Right on the route the Plane traveled to hit the building... The second Post that was struck and downed would be further to the Left and out of frame in this photo of the Taxi... The Light Posts you see positioned and still standing behind the Taxi are to the Right of this First Post struck, and the Plane's path & impact point ... Look at the First Yellow Dot on the schematic (pictured on bottom left ) which depicts the Light Post that landed on the Taxi ----- Now, following along the Plane's Path you see 3 Blue Dots along the right side of the path depicting the 3 Light which are the ones you see pictured behind the taxi...
The animation Video of the Plane's direct path to the Building along with each of the 5 Light Posts downed and their locations was supported by photographs of each downed Light Post...
4 Aug 2023 10:51 am
That's a new one, where did that come from, did I miss something... besides a plane that it is..Z09 » 04 Aug 2023, 8:53 am » wrote: ↑
You think there should be this perfect outline of a plane on the side of the Pentagon..
And that's just dumb...
In memory of Pumpkins
4 Aug 2023 10:55 am
This was my complaint about Z09 also. I graciously answered hers, but she evaded mine, just like what BlackVegtable used to do. I stopped dealing with her because of that. The dishonesty is exhausting. If she is reading this, then mark my words, she will deflect back to her same statements about witnesses, plane tickets, etc...I have addressed those already, but she won't address my questions. So **** her.Jantje_Smit » 04 Aug 2023, 8:45 am » wrote: ↑ lol... I actually answered your questions, you're the one that hasn't answered a single one of mine..
Nah, I'm not going to bother with the copy/paste of my own quotes anymore, too much trouble and it won't do any good with team clueless anyway...
But you're welcome to prove me wrong, try to find a post of yourself where you actually answer a question..
Blackvegatble's hypcorisy summed up in one post:
[/size]
Blackvegetable » 7 minutes ago » wrote: ↑7 minutes ago
Very simple questions...
From which you are running...
Blackvegetable » 7 minutes ago » wrote: ↑7 minutes ago
Very simple questions...
From which you are running...
4 Aug 2023 10:58 am
Z09 » 04 Aug 2023, 10:55 am » wrote: ↑ You and Vegas says the hole is 75 feet and the plane is 125 feet..
That's part of your conspiracy...
But the point is when the plane crashed it blew up...
There's not a perfct outline of 125 feet going into the building
Hey @Jantje_Smit , watch her deflect from this question:
Z09, where are the marks on the outside of the wall where the wing blew up on?
And deflection about witnesses, plane tickets, and whatever else in 3...2...1....Go!
Blackvegatble's hypcorisy summed up in one post:
[/size]
Blackvegetable » 7 minutes ago » wrote: ↑7 minutes ago
Very simple questions...
From which you are running...
Blackvegetable » 7 minutes ago » wrote: ↑7 minutes ago
Very simple questions...
From which you are running...
4 Aug 2023 11:03 am
Z09 » 04 Aug 2023, 11:00 am » wrote: ↑ Dishonesty?
You're telling us that a 757 jet was disassembled ..
...But we can't ask any details...
Such as where?
Who did it?
What happened to the passengers...?
Well actually you stated the passengers never existed...
@Jantje_Smit just as I predicted. ^^^
Blackvegatble's hypcorisy summed up in one post:
[/size]
Blackvegetable » 7 minutes ago » wrote: ↑7 minutes ago
Very simple questions...
From which you are running...
Blackvegetable » 7 minutes ago » wrote: ↑7 minutes ago
Very simple questions...
From which you are running...
4 Aug 2023 11:09 am
Yes, that's what I thought but as I said, then the parking lot should be visible in the pic of the taxi, it looks like it's closer to the hole along the highway... however, I will let that go and not bother you with lampposts anymore.. we can agree that they planted it in a credible location...Kobia2 » 04 Aug 2023, 10:30 am » wrote: ↑
This Light Post pictured that came down on the Taxi was the first one knocked down, and was the furthest most Right on the route the Plane traveled to hit the building... The second Post that was struck and downed would be further to the Left and out of frame in this photo of the Taxi... The Light Posts you see positioned and still standing behind the Taxi are to the Right of this First Post struck, and the Plane's path & impact point ... Look at the First Yellow Dot on the schematic (pictured on bottom left ) which depicts the Light Post that landed on the Taxi ----- Now, following along the Plane's Path you see 3 Blue Dots along the right side of the path depicting the 3 Light which are the ones you see pictured behind the taxi...
The animation Video of the Plane's direct path to the Building along with each of the 5 Light Posts downed and their locations was supported by photographs of each downed Light Post...
In memory of Pumpkins
4 Aug 2023 11:12 am
Z09 » 04 Aug 2023, 11:09 am » wrote: ↑ You seem annoyed because it's hard for some people to think hundreds and hundreds of people got together BEFORE 911 and decided to commit mass murder...
And when asked some direct questions about airplanes, witnesses, debris and footage you explain and it's a stupid explanation..
A 757 is disassembled?
You never answered..
A missile crashed into the Pentagon...
From where?
No answer
Passengers and familes that dropped them off at the airport that morning..?
They weren't real people?
WTF?
Oh my God. I have answered this so many damn times already. You won't answer my questions. So, give me one credible reason I should answer even one more of yours? ****....even that was a question that you won't answer.
Blackvegatble's hypcorisy summed up in one post:
[/size]
Blackvegetable » 7 minutes ago » wrote: ↑7 minutes ago
Very simple questions...
From which you are running...
Blackvegetable » 7 minutes ago » wrote: ↑7 minutes ago
Very simple questions...
From which you are running...
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