Liberal Forum

Bruce » 12 Aug 2023, 12:29 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 12:29 pm

Testimonies can be unreliable.

Why didn’t the Deep State just commandeer a fourth plane and use that plane as a cruise missile?

Why waste the largest cruise missile ever built?

You keep implying that this cruise missile had to be some enormous piece of work. It didn't. It didn't blow up the whole building. It put a hole in it, just as missiles, any ordinary missile, are supposed to do.  

Z09 » 12 Aug 2023, 12:31 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 12:31 pm

Shut down in the ocean?

 

         Now you are just desperate. Never said they shut down the ocean. Seriously, what is wrong with you?

Bruce » 12 Aug 2023, 12:24 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 12:24 pm

Tons and tons of info.

Either

1.  The the Deep State planted charges they did not detonate until eight hours after the first tower was hit.

OR

2.  The first glass and steel tower in the world to ever have a large fire burn out of control for eight hours finally pan caked when the steel support beams were compromised by extreme heat.

I pick option 2.

The problem with number 2 is that it doesn't align with any other building fires, be it in America, or anywhere around the globe. Can you show me one building fire, that burned for hours, and just caved like that? They usually just burn to the ground, not fall to the ground.

Z09 » 12 Aug 2023, 12:35 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 12:35 pm

Shot down .
Are you saying Flight 77 was shot down in the ocean?
 
That would mean another cruise missile..

Seriously?

Oh I thought you said 'shut down the ocean.' Typo. 

Yes, another cruise missile. So? Our government shoots them all the time in war. Like all the time. It's not an aberration. 

Vegas » 12 Aug 2023, 11:26 am » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 11:26 am

1. It's not unreasonable. The pentagon has cameras everywhere. There was even one right on top of where the plane allegedly crashed, undamaged. Yet, nothing was released. That is a fair point that needs to be addressed. But she wont. 

2. I have discounted 100% of testimonies, not evidence. Everything you said relies on what we are 'told.'

3. Since we are the ones that aren't making the claims, the burden of proof does not rely on us. The claim is that a plane hit the pentagon. Therefore, the burden of proof relies on those making the claim. Not on us. You both have only given us what we were told. Testimonies.

              You're claiming the Cameras should have been able to take a clear enough photo showing the Plane either approaching ot hitting the Building.... The only Camera / Vid footage we have was taken from a camera with a 1-second per frame lens.... Do you have any information the other cameras were of a high-speed type --  different from the one that took the footage we have seen?  You're claiming there must have been, and they would have had to been pointed in the direction of the incoming Plane --- that burden of proof is on you...  

               Eyewitness testimony has pretty much been used around the globe since the beginning of time, as a credible source of validating  events which have occurred --- both inside & outside of courtrooms.. Could it be you're dismissing all of these witnesses because they they dispel & contradict your own assertion something other than Flight 77 hit the Pentagon?.....  Be honest -- Would you be just as quick to dismiss such testimony had it been 100 people (both on the ground and in the air) who claimed to have witnessed a Missile hitting the Pentagon instead of a Commercial Airliner? 

               The Insider-Jobber theorists have indeed made claims --- many of them, including planting of physical evidence -- the disappearing of a commercial Airline and murder of its passengers & crew --- human remains and body parts of such people taken from a secret location to Dover AB in Delaware -- claims of a Missile fired at & hitting the Pentagon etc... But what they seem to do is try to maneuver themselves into the very safe position of putting all the burden of proof onto others, without having to prove their endless list of additional assertions or often revised claims...
            

Z09 » 12 Aug 2023, 12:39 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 12:39 pm

Flight 77 was on radar in Indianapolis...

 

Testimony ^^^ What we were told. 

sootedupCyndi » 12 Aug 2023, 12:23 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 12:23 pm

Well? if someone buried you out to sea- I'd be thinkin- That was fishy. Swimming  with the fish-ees.

Yep, that was the entire point.

There are about a billion rag heads over there that keep their women wrapped up in black shrouds so no other man will want them.

They murder their sisters and daughters for having a cigarette or a beer, or being alone with a boy.

They don’t think their dead should be violated and must be buried within 24 hours.

Only a few Americans believe Osama is alive today.

The rag heads believe Obama killed him.

Kobia2 » 12 Aug 2023, 12:41 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 12:41 pm

              You're claiming the Cameras should have been able to take a clear enough photo showing the Plane either approaching ot hitting the Building.... The only Camera / Vid footage we have was taken from a camera with a 1-second per frame lens.... Do you have any information the other cameras were of a high-speed type --  different from the one that took the footage we have seen?  You're claiming there must have been, and they would have had to been pointed in the direction of the incoming Plane --- that burden of proof is on you...  

               

The pentagon had 80 video cameras in the vicinity of the crash. All were confiscated except for that one blurry image from the security cam that doesn't show anything. You are saying that is normal and that we shouldn't be raising our eye brows? 

Eyewitness testimony has pretty much been used around the globe since the beginning of time, as a credible source of validating  events which have occurred --- both inside & outside of courtrooms.. Could it be you're dismissing all of these witnesses because they they dispel & contradict your own assertion something other than Flight 77 hit the Pentagon?.....  Be honest -- Would you be just as quick to dismiss such testimony had it been 100 people (both on the ground and in the air) who claimed to have witnessed a Missile hitting the Pentagon instead of a Commercial Airliner? 

I am dismissing their testimonies because it doesn't line up with physical evidence. The size of the hole, the fact that video from 80 different cameras are missing, there is no fire charcoal on the lawn just outside the crash, and that the damage looks like something from a missile, not a plane. Their testimonies are not lining up with physics nor physical evidence. They just aren't. 

               The Insider-Jobber theorists have indeed made claims --- many of them, including planting of physical evidence -- the disappearing of a commercial Airline and murder of its passengers & crew --- human remains and body parts of such people taken from a secret location to Dover AB in Delaware -- claims of a Missile fired at & hitting the Pentagon etc... But what they seem to do is try to maneuver themselves into the very safe position of putting all the burden of proof onto others, without having to prove their endless list of additional assertions or often revised claims...

Because the burden of proof is on you. The ones that make the claim are the ones that have the burden of proof. The claim is that a plane hit the pentagon. Therefore, the burden of proof is on their shoulders. Period. That's how it works. 
            




             
            

Z09 » 12 Aug 2023, 12:44 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 12:44 pm

So numerous ATC were lying?

Any idea where these cruise missiles were shot from?

1. Don't know, don't care. Testimonies are not physical evidence. Period. That's that.

2. Do you really think the government would want us to know? Duh. 

3. Any reason why you wont answer my questions? Oh wait, that's because you are a coward. Never mind.   

Z09 » 12 Aug 2023, 12:52 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 12:52 pm

The burden of proof ...

But when asked for evidence it was a cruise missile you have none.

Not my job. I am not the one claiming the plane hit it, which is the narrative. 

@Jantje_Smit  Isn't it annoying that they won't answer our questions? That in of itself tends to make me think they have doubts of their own theories. 

Bruce » 12 Aug 2023, 12:45 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 12:45 pm

Yep, that was the entire point.

There are about a billion rag heads over there that keep their women wrapped up in black shrouds so no other man will want them.

They murder their sisters and daughters for having a cigarette or a beer, or being alone with a boy.

They don’t think their dead should be violated and must be buried within 24 hours.

Only a few Americans believe Osama is alive today.

The rag heads believe Obama killed him.

OH !!! Please don't get me started on that? The towels on the woman's heads?
Oh dear lord! But- but- Don't dare pick on that!
It's  all in the name of religion?  so has most of the bs in history.  
 

Vegas » 12 Aug 2023, 12:36 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 12:36 pm

The problem with number 2 is that it doesn't align with any other building fires, be it in America, or anywhere around the globe. Can you show me one building fire, that burned for hours, and just caved like that? They usually just burn to the ground, not fall to the ground.

There are fires in glass and steel buildings all over the world, and all such towers are in major cities where land is expensive.

In all the other cases, modern urban fire departments put out the fire.

The collapse of the Twin Towers busted all the water mains.  The fires in WTC7 raged for 8 hours.

What this means is, if there’s ever a nuclear war, s all major cities involved will have every glass and steel tower pancake down on the first day.

And when you think about it that makes sense.

A huge tower won’t topple sideways, when the support beams fail due to heat.

The heat needed, is about what your wife’s gas stove provides.

 
 

Vegas » 12 Aug 2023, 12:28 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 12:28 pm

@Kobia2  @Bruce  

I gave the benefit of the doubt as to how a 757 could have hit the pentagon at the angle claimed. It was almost horizontal. I thought maybe the plane hit it as if it was landing on a runway. That would allow the plane to hit it horizontally, as claimed. However, notice in any pics, there are no tire marks or even burn marks from the flames within feet of the building. There would have to be some markings on the lawn that a plane landed there. Fire marks on the grass. 

Nothing. Only fire from the building. That is more in line with a missile.

                Why would you believe the Hijackers would have lowered the Plane's landing gear?..... It wasn't, which explains the lack of tire impressions... 

                 What Grass are you speaking of?...... 
You can see in the first illustration a large area in front of the Building where the Generator that was clipped by the Plane stands, along with several other small structures ... Running parallel along the wall of the Building we see a very thin strip of Grass ... 

                 Now look at the 2nd photo .....  Where is it in this photo you would have expected to see tire tracks or scorched Grass?... The front of the Building had collapsed and completely covered where this would have been...




 
 

sootedupCyndi » 12 Aug 2023, 12:55 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 12:55 pm

OH !!! Please don't get me started on that? The towels on the woman's heads?
Oh dear lord! But- but- Don't dare pick on that!
It's  all in the name of religion?  so has most of the bs in history.

I watched my beautiful, intelligent  mother, cut the bunions off her feet and her toes were permanently pointed from the dozens of pairs of high heeled shoes she gave away to younger  women who needed them, when she died at age 84, in full lipstick and make up.

Mama was a slave to fashion.

Those women in the Middle East sew up all those shrouds and call each other whores if another woman  doesn’t wear one.

 

Bruce » 12 Aug 2023, 12:56 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 12:56 pm

There are fires in glass and steel buildings all over the world, and all such towers are in major cities where land is expensive.

In all the other cases, modern urban fire departments put out the fire.

The collapse of the Twin Towers busted all the water mains.  The fires in WTC7 raged for 8 hours.

What this means is, if there’s ever a nuclear war, s all major cities involved will have every glass and steel tower pancake down on the first day.

And when you think about it that makes sense.

A huge tower won’t topple sideways, when the support beams fail due to heat.

The heat needed, is about what your wife’s gas stove provides.

I have a hard time believing that there isn't a history of buildings that had a fire. In Vegas, in 1980 ( I think), there was the MGM fire that killed 85 people. It started at the ground floor. It blazed for hours before they finally got it under control. The building just burned. It didn't fall. They didn't seem to have any safety concerns about it falling since they were cleaning up the after math inside.  The point is that you aren't going to find any burning buildings that fell like that. They just burn.  

Kobia2 » 12 Aug 2023, 1:06 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 1:06 pm

                Why would you believe the Hijackers would have lowered the Plane's landing gear?..... It wasn't, which explains the lack of tire impressions... 

                 What Grass are you speaking of?...... 
You can see in the first illustration a large area in front of the Building where the Generator that was clipped by the Plane stands, along with several other small structures ... Running parallel along the wall of the Building we see a very thin strip of Grass ... 

                 Now look at the 2nd photo .....  Where is it in this photo you would have expected to see tire tracks or scorched Grass?... The front of the Building had collapsed and completely covered where this would have been...

I never said they had their landing gear out. I said there would be some evidence of sheer markings on the lawn since the plane had to be that close to the ground upon entry. There isn't. 

Bruce » 12 Aug 2023, 12:45 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 12:45 pm

Yep, that was the entire point.

There are about a billion rag heads over there that keep their women wrapped up in black shrouds so no other man will want them.

They murder their sisters and daughters for having a cigarette or a beer, or being alone with a boy.

They don’t think their dead should be violated and must be buried within 24 hours.

Only a few Americans believe Osama is alive today.

The rag heads believe Obama killed him.

Well Fox has been boring.. and I have digressed into reality tv.- yes I have!  It's all about Americans going abroad to meet the loves of their life- on line?
Most aren't doing to well?  It's hilarious... it's also interesting because of the diff cultures to see and the cities... 
These loser  American men  get there... only to find out.. it's against there culture... HOT and horny losers from the USA?
You have to marry me- first. No sex- not even a kiss. HOOT
poor dudes. 
stay on your own turf losers-  if you cant find a woman here- your a loser!  

 

Bruce » 12 Aug 2023, 1:08 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 1:08 pm

I watched my beautiful, intelligent  mother, cut the bunions off her feet and her toes were permanently pointed from the dozens of pairs of high heeled shoes she gave away to younger  women who needed them, when she died at age 84, in full lipstick and make up.

Mama was a slave to fashion.

Those women in the Middle East sew up all those shrouds and call each other whores if another woman  doesn’t wear one.

I think that is genetic?
When I moved to Maine my heels went into the garbage bin....
 but on pondering that? Maybe those heals would have gave me  more traction in the snow? LOL?
 

Vegas » 12 Aug 2023, 1:09 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 1:09 pm

I have a hard time believing that there isn't a history of buildings that had a fire. In Vegas, in 1980 ( I think), there was the MGM fire that killed 85 people. It started at the ground floor. It blazed for hours before they finally got it under control. The building just burned. It didn't fall. They didn't seem to have any safety concerns about it falling since they were cleaning up the after math inside.  The point is that you aren't going to find any burning buildings that fell like that. They just burn.

MGM Grand Fire

—
The fire was limited to the first floor,[15] but the burning material created toxic fumes and smoke, which ascended throughout the hotel tower via vertical shafts (elevators and stairwells) and seismic joints, causing the majority of the deaths.[16] More than 200 firefighters responded to the fire,[17] and some reported having to crawl through the dark and over "mounds of stuff" trying to extinguish the fire. It was later determined that the "mounds" were deceased guests and staff near an elevator bank.[6] The Las Vegas fire department operated separately from the county fire department; the latter served the Las Vegas Strip, so city firefighters were unfamiliar with the MGM's layout, including fire escape routes. This hindered the rescue effort.[18]
——

Those steel and glass towers are over engineered.

The walls are glass, and the steel skeletons sway in the wind or else they’d come down.  They all have automatic sprinkler systems, and emergency stair exits, all over the world, they share that.

What’s only happened one time in the history of steel and glass towers happened on 9/11.

Two planes, converted into the largest cruise missiles in world history, full of aviation fuel, over 200,000 pounds each, hit the two tallest towers on earth at 530 miles an hour, so high no ladder trucks can rescue anyone above the target point.

By the way, Deep State or Camel Jockeys, it was a perfect hit on both towers.

The sprinklers can’t put out a plane load of jet fuel.  Not even close to put it out.

So Johnny here comes the cavalry, the best fire department on earth.

—-

343 FDNY firefighters died responding to the attacks on September 11, 2001. All of the 100,000 first responders and 400,000 other people who were working, living, and studying in Lower Manhattan on and after 9/11 have a higher incidence of 68 different types of cancer and many respiratory illnesses

——

So now two towers have came down and killed 343 firemen and converted every one of the others left alive to stay the **** out of burning steel and glass  towers.

And when they came down that busted all the water mains and the sprinklers in WTC7 started drizzling.

They pumped a lot from pumper trucks, but the fires were just too hot to extinguish.

So they evacuated America’s Mayor Rudy and let it come down