Liberal Forum

Z09 » 12 Aug 2023, 12:52 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 12:52 pm

The burden of proof ...

But when asked for evidence it was a cruise missile you have none.

Not my job. I am not the one claiming the plane hit it, which is the narrative. 

@Jantje_Smit  Isn't it annoying that they won't answer our questions? That in of itself tends to make me think they have doubts of their own theories. 

Bruce » 12 Aug 2023, 12:45 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 12:45 pm

Yep, that was the entire point.

There are about a billion rag heads over there that keep their women wrapped up in black shrouds so no other man will want them.

They murder their sisters and daughters for having a cigarette or a beer, or being alone with a boy.

They don’t think their dead should be violated and must be buried within 24 hours.

Only a few Americans believe Osama is alive today.

The rag heads believe Obama killed him.

OH !!! Please don't get me started on that? The towels on the woman's heads?
Oh dear lord! But- but- Don't dare pick on that!
It's  all in the name of religion?  so has most of the bs in history.  
 

Vegas » 12 Aug 2023, 12:36 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 12:36 pm

The problem with number 2 is that it doesn't align with any other building fires, be it in America, or anywhere around the globe. Can you show me one building fire, that burned for hours, and just caved like that? They usually just burn to the ground, not fall to the ground.

There are fires in glass and steel buildings all over the world, and all such towers are in major cities where land is expensive.

In all the other cases, modern urban fire departments put out the fire.

The collapse of the Twin Towers busted all the water mains.  The fires in WTC7 raged for 8 hours.

What this means is, if there’s ever a nuclear war, s all major cities involved will have every glass and steel tower pancake down on the first day.

And when you think about it that makes sense.

A huge tower won’t topple sideways, when the support beams fail due to heat.

The heat needed, is about what your wife’s gas stove provides.

 
 

Vegas » 12 Aug 2023, 12:28 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 12:28 pm

@Kobia2  @Bruce  

I gave the benefit of the doubt as to how a 757 could have hit the pentagon at the angle claimed. It was almost horizontal. I thought maybe the plane hit it as if it was landing on a runway. That would allow the plane to hit it horizontally, as claimed. However, notice in any pics, there are no tire marks or even burn marks from the flames within feet of the building. There would have to be some markings on the lawn that a plane landed there. Fire marks on the grass. 

Nothing. Only fire from the building. That is more in line with a missile.

                Why would you believe the Hijackers would have lowered the Plane's landing gear?..... It wasn't, which explains the lack of tire impressions... 

                 What Grass are you speaking of?...... 
You can see in the first illustration a large area in front of the Building where the Generator that was clipped by the Plane stands, along with several other small structures ... Running parallel along the wall of the Building we see a very thin strip of Grass ... 

                 Now look at the 2nd photo .....  Where is it in this photo you would have expected to see tire tracks or scorched Grass?... The front of the Building had collapsed and completely covered where this would have been...




 
 

sootedupCyndi » 12 Aug 2023, 12:55 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 12:55 pm

OH !!! Please don't get me started on that? The towels on the woman's heads?
Oh dear lord! But- but- Don't dare pick on that!
It's  all in the name of religion?  so has most of the bs in history.

I watched my beautiful, intelligent  mother, cut the bunions off her feet and her toes were permanently pointed from the dozens of pairs of high heeled shoes she gave away to younger  women who needed them, when she died at age 84, in full lipstick and make up.

Mama was a slave to fashion.

Those women in the Middle East sew up all those shrouds and call each other whores if another woman  doesn’t wear one.

 

Bruce » 12 Aug 2023, 12:56 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 12:56 pm

There are fires in glass and steel buildings all over the world, and all such towers are in major cities where land is expensive.

In all the other cases, modern urban fire departments put out the fire.

The collapse of the Twin Towers busted all the water mains.  The fires in WTC7 raged for 8 hours.

What this means is, if there’s ever a nuclear war, s all major cities involved will have every glass and steel tower pancake down on the first day.

And when you think about it that makes sense.

A huge tower won’t topple sideways, when the support beams fail due to heat.

The heat needed, is about what your wife’s gas stove provides.

I have a hard time believing that there isn't a history of buildings that had a fire. In Vegas, in 1980 ( I think), there was the MGM fire that killed 85 people. It started at the ground floor. It blazed for hours before they finally got it under control. The building just burned. It didn't fall. They didn't seem to have any safety concerns about it falling since they were cleaning up the after math inside.  The point is that you aren't going to find any burning buildings that fell like that. They just burn.  

Kobia2 » 12 Aug 2023, 1:06 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 1:06 pm

                Why would you believe the Hijackers would have lowered the Plane's landing gear?..... It wasn't, which explains the lack of tire impressions... 

                 What Grass are you speaking of?...... 
You can see in the first illustration a large area in front of the Building where the Generator that was clipped by the Plane stands, along with several other small structures ... Running parallel along the wall of the Building we see a very thin strip of Grass ... 

                 Now look at the 2nd photo .....  Where is it in this photo you would have expected to see tire tracks or scorched Grass?... The front of the Building had collapsed and completely covered where this would have been...

I never said they had their landing gear out. I said there would be some evidence of sheer markings on the lawn since the plane had to be that close to the ground upon entry. There isn't. 

Bruce » 12 Aug 2023, 12:45 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 12:45 pm

Yep, that was the entire point.

There are about a billion rag heads over there that keep their women wrapped up in black shrouds so no other man will want them.

They murder their sisters and daughters for having a cigarette or a beer, or being alone with a boy.

They don’t think their dead should be violated and must be buried within 24 hours.

Only a few Americans believe Osama is alive today.

The rag heads believe Obama killed him.

Well Fox has been boring.. and I have digressed into reality tv.- yes I have!  It's all about Americans going abroad to meet the loves of their life- on line?
Most aren't doing to well?  It's hilarious... it's also interesting because of the diff cultures to see and the cities... 
These loser  American men  get there... only to find out.. it's against there culture... HOT and horny losers from the USA?
You have to marry me- first. No sex- not even a kiss. HOOT
poor dudes. 
stay on your own turf losers-  if you cant find a woman here- your a loser!  

 

Bruce » 12 Aug 2023, 1:08 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 1:08 pm

I watched my beautiful, intelligent  mother, cut the bunions off her feet and her toes were permanently pointed from the dozens of pairs of high heeled shoes she gave away to younger  women who needed them, when she died at age 84, in full lipstick and make up.

Mama was a slave to fashion.

Those women in the Middle East sew up all those shrouds and call each other whores if another woman  doesn’t wear one.

I think that is genetic?
When I moved to Maine my heels went into the garbage bin....
 but on pondering that? Maybe those heals would have gave me  more traction in the snow? LOL?
 

Vegas » 12 Aug 2023, 1:09 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 1:09 pm

I have a hard time believing that there isn't a history of buildings that had a fire. In Vegas, in 1980 ( I think), there was the MGM fire that killed 85 people. It started at the ground floor. It blazed for hours before they finally got it under control. The building just burned. It didn't fall. They didn't seem to have any safety concerns about it falling since they were cleaning up the after math inside.  The point is that you aren't going to find any burning buildings that fell like that. They just burn.

MGM Grand Fire

—
The fire was limited to the first floor,[15] but the burning material created toxic fumes and smoke, which ascended throughout the hotel tower via vertical shafts (elevators and stairwells) and seismic joints, causing the majority of the deaths.[16] More than 200 firefighters responded to the fire,[17] and some reported having to crawl through the dark and over "mounds of stuff" trying to extinguish the fire. It was later determined that the "mounds" were deceased guests and staff near an elevator bank.[6] The Las Vegas fire department operated separately from the county fire department; the latter served the Las Vegas Strip, so city firefighters were unfamiliar with the MGM's layout, including fire escape routes. This hindered the rescue effort.[18]
——

Those steel and glass towers are over engineered.

The walls are glass, and the steel skeletons sway in the wind or else they’d come down.  They all have automatic sprinkler systems, and emergency stair exits, all over the world, they share that.

What’s only happened one time in the history of steel and glass towers happened on 9/11.

Two planes, converted into the largest cruise missiles in world history, full of aviation fuel, over 200,000 pounds each, hit the two tallest towers on earth at 530 miles an hour, so high no ladder trucks can rescue anyone above the target point.

By the way, Deep State or Camel Jockeys, it was a perfect hit on both towers.

The sprinklers can’t put out a plane load of jet fuel.  Not even close to put it out.

So Johnny here comes the cavalry, the best fire department on earth.

—-

343 FDNY firefighters died responding to the attacks on September 11, 2001. All of the 100,000 first responders and 400,000 other people who were working, living, and studying in Lower Manhattan on and after 9/11 have a higher incidence of 68 different types of cancer and many respiratory illnesses

——

So now two towers have came down and killed 343 firemen and converted every one of the others left alive to stay the **** out of burning steel and glass  towers.

And when they came down that busted all the water mains and the sprinklers in WTC7 started drizzling.

They pumped a lot from pumper trucks, but the fires were just too hot to extinguish.

So they evacuated America’s Mayor Rudy and let it come down 






 

Vegas » 12 Aug 2023, 12:50 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 12:50 pm

The pentagon had 80 video cameras in the vicinity of the crash. All were confiscated except for that one blurry image from the security cam that doesn't show anything. You are saying that is normal and that we shouldn't be raising our eye brows? 

I am dismissing their testimonies because it doesn't line up with physical evidence. The size of the hole, the fact that video from 80 different cameras are missing, there is no fire charcoal on the lawn just outside the crash, and that the damage looks like something from a missile, not a plane. Their testimonies are not lining up with physics nor physical evidence. They just aren't. 

Because the burden of proof is on you. The ones that make the claim are the ones that have the burden of proof. The claim is that a plane hit the pentagon. Therefore, the burden of proof is on their shoulders. Period. That's how it works. 
            

             
            

Vegas
The pentagon had 80 video cameras in the vicinity of the crash. All were confiscated except for that one blurry image from the security cam that doesn't show anything. You are saying that is normal and that we shouldn't be raising our eye brows? 
   
     What were the security cameras mounted on buildings directed at?....... You are assuming there were high speed cameras pointed at the sky to capture an incoming attack.... They were most likely pointed at parking lots, pathways, roads, building entrances / exits, and other areas closer to ground level... 

I am dismissing their testimonies because it doesn't line up with physical evidence. The size of the hole, the fact that video from 80 different cameras are missing, there is no fire charcoal on the lawn just outside the crash, and that the damage looks like something from a missile, not a plane. Their testimonies are not lining up with physics nor physical evidence. They just aren't. 

       You were shown plenty of physical evidence, which of course you insist was planted or fabricated... PLane debris from a Boeing 757, human remains from Flight 77 identified through DNA, the Flight Records of Flight 77, personal effects belonging to passengers & crew of Flight 77 identified by loved ones and returned to the victim's families  At one point you conceded you were unaware and had not seen the 5 downed Street Light poles... You were shown photographs of the downed poles, along with a schematic of their positioning in relation to the Plane's path along with the distance between them which proved only an Aircraft with a wide enough wingspan like a 757 could have ,,, There isn't a Missile in existence today let alone in 2001 that had such a wingspan.. All of this is physical evidence which you deny or dismiss, but you accept & embrace alternative possibilities without any physical evidence at all... 

Because the burden of proof is on you. The ones that make the claim are the ones that have the burden of proof. The claim is that a plane hit the pentagon. Therefore, the burden of proof is on their shoulders. Period. That's how it works. 

        Your confused.... You have made one claim after another which you could not prove which I clearly pointed out to you... Again, the Insider-Jobbers think they are the safe position where they can sling **** at the walls hoping something sticks, and when it doesn't (which it never does) they simply throw more.... That's how you think it ought to work. 
            

Vegas » 12 Aug 2023, 1:12 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 1:12 pm

I never said they had their landing gear out. I said there would be some evidence of sheer markings on the lawn since the plane had to be that close to the ground upon entry. There isn't.

          You said in your post.... 

    "However, notice in any pics, there are no tire marks or even burn marks from the flames within feet of the building. There would have to be some markings on the lawn that a plane landed there. Fire marks on the grass. 

            I pointed out there would have been no Tire marks because the landing gear would not have been deployed --- and the front of the building had collapsed outwards so any such marks or scorched grass would not have been seen under the tons of rubbles covering that gound.

Vegas » 12 Aug 2023, 12:41 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 12:41 pm

Testimony ^^^ What we were told.

         Most of the witnesses who offered testimony seeing a large commercial airliner approaching, knocking down street lights or hitting the Pentagon WERE NOT employees or members of any government agency.... They were normal everyday people driving along the heavily congested roadway across from the building... How did you conclude every single one of these people were liars, coerced into silence, or complicit in the murder of 187 of their fellow citizens at the Pentagon that day? 

Bruce » 12 Aug 2023, 1:33 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 1:33 pm

MGM Grand Fire

—
The fire was limited to the first floor,[15] but the burning material created toxic fumes and smoke, which ascended throughout the hotel tower via vertical shafts (elevators and stairwells) and seismic joints, causing the majority of the deaths.[16] More than 200 firefighters responded to the fire,[17] and some reported having to crawl through the dark and over "mounds of stuff" trying to extinguish the fire. It was later determined that the "mounds" were deceased guests and staff near an elevator bank.[6] The Las Vegas fire department operated separately from the county fire department; the latter served the Las Vegas Strip, so city firefighters were unfamiliar with the MGM's layout, including fire escape routes. This hindered the rescue effort.[18]
——

Those steel and glass towers are over engineered.

The walls are glass, and the steel skeletons sway in the wind or else they’d come down.  They all have automatic sprinkler systems, and emergency stair exits, all over the world, they share that.

What’s only happened one time in the history of steel and glass towers happened on 9/11.

Two planes, converted into the largest cruise missiles in world history, full of aviation fuel, over 200,000 pounds each, hit the two tallest towers on earth at 530 miles an hour, so high no ladder trucks can rescue anyone above the target point.

By the way, Deep State or Camel Jockeys, it was a perfect hit on both towers.

The sprinklers can’t put out a plane load of jet fuel.  Not even close to put it out.

So Johnny here comes the cavalry, the best fire department on earth.

—-

343 FDNY firefighters died responding to the attacks on September 11, 2001. All of the 100,000 first responders and 400,000 other people who were working, living, and studying in Lower Manhattan on and after 9/11 have a higher incidence of 68 different types of cancer and many respiratory illnesses

——

So now two towers have came down and killed 343 firemen and converted every one of the others left alive to stay the **** out of burning steel and glass  towers.

And when they came down that busted all the water mains and the sprinklers in WTC7 started drizzling.

They pumped a lot from pumper trucks, but the fires were just too hot to extinguish.

So they evacuated America’s Mayor Rudy and let it come down

MGM Grand Fire !!
I was there !!
Real life !!
Some people were jumping out windows!!   Firemen could not get up that high
with ladders.
That was the fire that forced all hi-rises to install water sprinklers to all floors.
I was a young Whipper-Snapper back then.     Trying hard to be a professional
poker player.               The whores and the cougars would not leave me alone.     
HHhhhhheeeeeehhhhhhhh......LOL....  

Damn....."the good old days" !!               
https://youtu.be/129kuDCQtHs

Z09 » 12 Aug 2023, 2:47 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 2:47 pm

Well said...

Hundreds of witnesses that offered testimony it was an airplane..

And not a single one that said it was a cruise missile.

But...
It's "our burden to show proof"...

           It's one thing to get a group of people ---- all affiliated in some way --- at a single place -- coerced or working in unison to testify to an event they saw unfold, to support the same narrative....  But this is simply not the case ... 

           So many of these eyewitnesses were strangers to one another --- and watched what they described as the Plane from different vantage points & locations... Many were in the slow moving traffic on Interstate 395 ----  others saw what transpired from the Sheraton Hotel or apartment windows -- the Pentagon grounds themselves -- offices & businesses in the immediate area --- from an airborne C-130 Cargo plane  etc -- an Air Traffic Control Tower --- cars driving on Route 27 Washington Blvd. ----- etc...  

          Not plausible and makes zero sense.. 

          

Bruce » 12 Aug 2023, 12:45 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 12:45 pm

Yep, that was the entire point.

There are about a billion rag heads over there that keep their women wrapped up in black shrouds so no other man will want them.

They murder their sisters and daughters for having a cigarette or a beer, or being alone with a boy.

They don’t think their dead should be violated and must be buried within 24 hours.

Only a few Americans believe Osama is alive today.

The rag heads believe Obama killed him.

            Bin Laden's body should have been handled & disposed of with all the respect & dignity he deserved... It should have been wrapped in Bacon -- cremated -- then had his ashes blown into an open sewer ditch by a farting Camel. 

sootedupCyndi » 12 Aug 2023, 12:23 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 12:23 pm

Well? if someone buried you out to sea- I'd be thinkin- That was fishy. Swimming  with the fish-ees.

              He probably bobbed around for a few days --- th curious sharks probably mistaking him for a piece of whale ****... 

Kobia2 » 12 Aug 2023, 2:11 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 2:11 pm

         Most of the witnesses who offered testimony seeing a large commercial airliner approaching, knocking down street lights or hitting the Pentagon WERE NOT employees or members of any government agency.... They were normal everyday people driving along the heavily congested roadway across from the building... How did you conclude every single one of these people were liars, coerced into silence, or complicit in the murder of 187 of their fellow citizens at the Pentagon that day? 

One of two reasons: 

1. I still maintain that perhaps it could have been a drone carrying explosives. They are white with wings, and could easily be mistaken as a plane. Especially to anyone who is trying to drive and can't look for longer than a second. Also, drones are not as sturdy as a Boeing 757. They could easily crumple and dintegrate upon impact into nothing. A plane? Not a chance. There would be some debris around the lawn, easily. 

2. Crisis actors. 
 

Kobia2 » 12 Aug 2023, 1:57 pm » wrote: ↑

12 Aug 2023, 1:57 pm

          You said in your post.... 

    "However, notice in any pics, there are no tire marks or even burn marks from the flames within feet of the building. There would have to be some markings on the lawn that a plane landed there. Fire marks on the grass. 

            I pointed out there would have been no Tire marks because the landing gear would not have been deployed --- and the front of the building had collapsed outwards so any such marks or scorched grass would not have been seen under the tons of rubbles covering that gound.

When I said a plane landed there, I didn't mean it had it's wheels out, as you can see from my post. I meant it would have some markings from the plane hit the bottom in the grass first. The 9/11 commission report stated that the plane hit the ground right before it entered the building. Yet, there is no evidence of that.