Liberal Forum

The answer to this question is "Yes".  Trump was justified in keeping all of his business records from the time he was president and here's why:

• Trump was falsely accused of doing illegal activity which he never engaged in either during his campaign or while he was president.  The Democrats were out to get Trump using the legal system to do it.  Trump needed to preserve the evidence of what was happening and to prove his innocence.
• During Trump's Presidency, the Democrats launched numerous investigations and impeachments against Trump.  Trump was justified in keeping any records that were remotely related to what the Democrats had been doing.
• Now there is proof that Joe Biden and Hunter Biden conspired together to extort foreign governments to pay Biden bribes for political favors. This is the same thing Biden's henchmen falsely accused Trump of doing.  Trump needs these records to prove his innocence and show who was really behind the illegal activities.
• Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton and the Democrats have a long history of destroying evidence.  Trump was wise to preserve evidence to help prove his innocence and the innocence of those who served America during his administration.
• Joe Biden has a long history of extorting bureaucrats to intervene on his behalf in various criminal investigations.  Examples:
  • Joe Biden got the IRS to investigate Jill's former Husband as retaliation
  • Joe Biden got the prosecutor looking into Hunter Biden's corrupt company, Burisma, fired and "off the case".
  • Joe Biden got the DOJ and the FBI to cover-up Hunter Biden's illegal activities - including spreading false facts about the laptop not being Hunter's
  • Joe Biden cause the FBI to pressure social media and media not to run stories about the Hunter Biden Laptop
  • Joe Biden got the IRS not to prosecute Hunter Biden for tax evasion
  • Joe Biden caused numerous false investigations of Trump for political gain
  • Joe Biden may have been involved in the murder of Jeffery Epstein
  • Joe Biden falsely accused the man driving the truck that was involved in the accident with his wife of being drunk - proven false.
• Merrick Garland has proven to be a corrupt lawyer, corrupt trial judge, corrupt appellate judge and corrupt U.S. Attorney General.  Trump would have been foolish to leave evidence needed to prove his innocence in the illegal onslaught of judicial actions in the hands of Democrat Evidence Destroyer and Corrupt Justice Obstructor Merrick Garland.

Some say Trump is a fool. Far from it. Trump's efforts taken to preserve the real evidence of all of the corrupt dealings the Democrats were up to during the elections and his administration was actually both wise and gallant on his part. 
 
 

Trump should not be above the law.

And here is why.

When a man who wears a badge and a gun comes up to you, and asks you to return government property that isn’t yours and belongs to the government, you say yes, sir, here it is, I’m very sorry.

Our parents all taught us that.

If Trump was a poor man they’d have filled him so full of lead they’d have had to melt him down to bury him.

Cooperate with law enforcement.

No man makes his own laws.

This is pure fantasy world!

Bruce » 01 Aug 2023, 7:38 am » wrote: ↑

01 Aug 2023, 7:38 am

Trump should not be above the law.

And here is why.

When a man who wears a badge and a gun comes up to you, and asks you to return government property that isn’t yours and belongs to the government, you say yes, sir, here it is, I’m very sorry.

Our parents all taught us that.

If Trump was a poor man they’d have filled him so full of lead they’d have had to melt him down to bury him.

Cooperate with law enforcement.

No man makes his own laws.

When a man is confronted by an attacker who wishes to kill him, or permanently injure him, that man is permitted to use whatever means are necessary to defend himself against an unlawful attack, including a gun to kill his attacker.

When a man is confronted by a political rival who is able to use the Judiciary to relentlessly attack him, not for crimes but part of a political persecution, then that man shall be permitted to use whatever necessary means he has at his disposal to defend himself against such an unlawful attack.  Trump was justified in keeping documents that could be used in defending him against multiple attempts to judicially persecute him.

 
 

Trump took no salary and lost money as President. Biden got rich being a scum bag. Democrats are evil.

Fuelman » 01 Aug 2023, 9:05 am » wrote: ↑

01 Aug 2023, 9:05 am

This is pure fantasy world!

Say what you want, but you have no refutation to what I've said.  The real question is "will 1 juror agree with what I've said?"

Skans » 01 Aug 2023, 1:08 pm » wrote: ↑

01 Aug 2023, 1:08 pm

Say what you want, but you have no refutation to what I've said.  The real question is "will 1 juror agree with what I've said?"

 

Trump was justified in keeping documents that could be used in defending him against multiple attempts to judicially persecute him.
 

 I will admit I haven't been hanging onto every word said in this investigation. That second statement, you have a link to Trump or one of his lawyers stating that was the purpose for taking the classified documents? I haven't seen the docs, maybe you have. Someone put that notion in your head or it was a complete ***-pull on your part. You can easily defend your statement with a link.

 
 

Bruce » 01 Aug 2023, 7:38 am » wrote: ↑

01 Aug 2023, 7:38 am

Trump should not be above the law.

And here is why.

When a man who wears a badge and a gun comes up to you, and asks you to return government property that isn’t yours and belongs to the government, you say yes, sir, here it is, I’m very sorry.

Our parents all taught us that.

If Trump was a poor man they’d have filled him so full of lead they’d have had to melt him down to bury him.

Cooperate with law enforcement.

No man makes his own laws.

I agree Trump should not be above the law, but it appears you didn't read the thread title.  The question was "Was Trump Justified In Keeping His Business Records, Even if Classified???"

First, I don't know why his business records would be classified.  Second, I don't see why his business records would be property of the National Archives.  Records related to his duties as President...those are absolutely property of the National Archives.  Records related to any business holding...those should absolutely NOT be property of the National Archives.  Those are proprietary information related to personal investments. 

I also think it is stupid that personal handwritten notes are property of the National Archives.  Those should be reviewed and, when seen to be clearly personal, given to the President.  There is no reason a President should not be allowed to keep a thank you note from a someone he presented with a gift while President...but I don't make the rules.

Skans » 01 Aug 2023, 1:08 pm » wrote: ↑

01 Aug 2023, 1:08 pm

Say what you want, but you have no refutation to what I've said.  The real question is "will 1 juror agree with what I've said?"

No judge will allow the defense of justification.

Trump’s lawyers will be jailed if they try it.

The prosecutors must prove what Trump actually did was done with criminal intent.

Bruce » 01 Aug 2023, 7:38 am » wrote: ↑

01 Aug 2023, 7:38 am

Trump should not be above the law.

And here is why.

When a man who wears a badge and a gun comes up to you, and asks you to return government property that isn’t yours and belongs to the government, you say yes, sir, here it is, I’m very sorry.

Our parents all taught us that.

If Trump was a poor man they’d have filled him so full of lead they’d have had to melt him down to bury him.

Cooperate with law enforcement.

No man makes his own laws.

First of all, there is no such thing as government property.....it's owned by the people.

Secondly, every law is made by man.

Thirdly, we don't need no stinking badges.
 

Bruce » 01 Aug 2023, 2:45 pm » wrote: ↑

01 Aug 2023, 2:45 pm

No judge will allow the defense of justification.

Trump’s lawyers will be jailed if they try it.

The prosecutors must prove what Trump actually did was done with criminal intent.

I say the judge has to allow it.  What do you have that says a judge doesn't have to allow it?
 

RebelGator » 01 Aug 2023, 2:55 pm » wrote: ↑

01 Aug 2023, 2:55 pm

First of all, there is no such thing as government property.....it's owned by the people.

Secondly, every law is made by man.

Thirdly, we don't need no stinking badges.

No nation could exist long without public property being owned by the people, but in trust.

The National Archives is the trustee of Trump’s official government documents.   Trump could access them, but Trump did not own those thousands of records, any more than he owned the White House or his desk in the Oval Office.

Trump’s best defense is, that he was a **** idiot too stupid to understand the law.



 Then the idiot ordered the janitor at his home to destroy evidence of the existence of those records.

Oooops!

Bruce » 01 Aug 2023, 3:10 pm » wrote: ↑

01 Aug 2023, 3:10 pm

No nation could exist long without public property being owned by the people, but in trust.

The National Archives is the trustee of Trump’s official government documents.   Trump could access them, but Trump did not own those thousands of records, any more than he owned the White House or his desk in the Oval Office.

Trump’s best defense is, that he was a **** idiot too stupid to understand the law.

 Then the idiot ordered the janitor at his home to destroy evidence of the existence of those records.

Oooops!

Sandy Berger, Democrat and Clinton's National Security Advisor was caught stealing public documents as part of a cover-up.  Documents archived in "libraries" are not safe from thieving Democrats:  

ConsRule » 01 Aug 2023, 2:37 pm » wrote: ↑

01 Aug 2023, 2:37 pm

I agree Trump should not be above the law, but it appears you didn't read the thread title.  The question was "Was Trump Justified In Keeping His Business Records, Even if Classified???"

First, I don't know why his business records would be classified.  Second, I don't see why his business records would be property of the National Archives.  Records related to his duties as President...those are absolutely property of the National Archives.  Records related to any business holding...those should absolutely NOT be property of the National Archives.  Those are proprietary information related to personal investments. 

I also think it is stupid that personal handwritten notes are property of the National Archives.  Those should be reviewed and, when seen to be clearly personal, given to the President.  There is no reason a President should not be allowed to keep a thank you note from a someone he presented with a gift while President...but I don't make the rules.

his business records are his personal property. is there proof that his personal records are something he is accused of taking?

Skans » 01 Aug 2023, 3:09 pm » wrote: ↑

01 Aug 2023, 3:09 pm

I say the judge has to allow it.  What do you have that says a judge doesn't have to allow it?

the national records act.

Skans » 01 Aug 2023, 3:09 pm » wrote: ↑

01 Aug 2023, 3:09 pm

I say the judge has to allow it.  What do you have that says a judge doesn't have to allow it?

 Both sides have to follow age old rules 

A jury can nullify a law.  They do it every day.  It’s part of the reason for a jury trial.  But the defense cannot argue  it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification

 
Thousands of official government records were found at Mari Largo

Some tiny few, such as Trump’s exchange of “love letters” to Kim Jung Un, old Trump likely kept as souvenirs and didn’t know or care they are government property.  No jury would convict him of those few souvenirs, unless he refused to give them back, then they would.



 

jerrab » 01 Aug 2023, 3:29 pm » wrote: ↑

01 Aug 2023, 3:29 pm

his business records are his personal property. is there proof that his personal records are something he is accused of taking?

I have no clue...I was answering the question in the thread title (and correcting Bruce...which can be a full time job).
 

jerrab » 01 Aug 2023, 3:30 pm » wrote: ↑

01 Aug 2023, 3:30 pm

the national records act.

Wrong.  I looked at it.  It said not a thing about justification / self-defense, preservation of evidence that would most certainly be destroyed if it ever fell into the hands of a Democrat.
 
 

Bruce » 01 Aug 2023, 3:31 pm » wrote: ↑

01 Aug 2023, 3:31 pm

 Both sides have to follow age old rules 

A jury can nullify a law.  They do it every day.  It’s part of the reason for a jury trial.  But the defense cannot argue  it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification

Thousands of official government records were found at Mari Largo

Some tiny few, such as Trump’s exchange of “love letters” to Kim Jung Un, old Trump likely kept as souvenirs and didn’t know or care they are government property.  No jury would convict him of those few souvenirs, unless he refused to give them back, then they would.

Then it is our duty to make this public knowledge so the Jury will be armed with the facts and the law.
 

ConsRule » 01 Aug 2023, 3:31 pm » wrote: ↑

01 Aug 2023, 3:31 pm

I have no clue...I was answering the question in the thread title (and correcting Bruce...which can be a full time job).

God **** Damn It!!! .

If you work all your life in an office, when you retire can you take your desk home?

Or the company papers and records in that desk?