Liberal Forum

jerrab » 08 Oct 2023, 12:02 am » wrote: ↑

08 Oct 2023, 12:02 am

that was a huge lie but I guess americans bought it.

I think most americans ignored it - in the way that dogs ignore ceiling fans. 

It's just white noise to most.
 
 

Cannonpointer » 08 Oct 2023, 12:00 am » wrote: ↑

08 Oct 2023, 12:00 am

Color me skeptical. But yeah - the pretense it will promote peace is an even BIGGER Donnie.

Edit - I duckduckgoed it. Clinton criticized bush for not caving on that - so... True. Truthy at a minimum.

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https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-e ... d=51600561

From the White House, Trump addressed the possibility of unrest, calling for "calm" and "moderation" and "for the voices of tolerance to prevail over the purveyors of hate.""Let us rededicate ourselves to a path of mutual understanding and respect," he said.A number of world leaders, including Pope Francis, spoke out against the decision Wednesday. Francis' comments came during a previously scheduled meeting with a Palestinian delegation of religious and intellectual leaders before Trump's address."My thoughts now go to Jerusalem," Francis said. "In this regard, I cannot keep silent about my deep concern over the situation that has arisen in recent days and, at the same time, a heartfelt appeal so that everyone would be committed to respecting the status quo of the city, in accordance with the relevant resolutions of the United Nations.”French President Emmanuel Macron called the action an "unfortunate decision" and said, "France does not approve it.""It goes against international law and the resolutions of the U.N. Security Council," he said. "The status of Jerusalem is a security issue for the entire international community. The status of Jerusalem must be determined by Israelis and Palestinians in the framework of negotiations under the auspices of the United Nations."
 

Cannonpointer » 08 Oct 2023, 12:03 am » wrote: ↑

08 Oct 2023, 12:03 am

I think most americans ignored it - in the way that dogs ignore ceiling fans. 

It's just white noise to most.

actually I thought it was a pile of **** and a total lie, he had to whitewash it somehow.

jerrab » 08 Oct 2023, 12:07 am » wrote: ↑

08 Oct 2023, 12:07 am

actually I thought it was a pile of **** and a total lie, he had to whitewash it somehow.

Yes, but you post on a political board. Most Americans don't. And of the few who do, most have much better taste in boards. This place is a **** **** run by an idiot. 
 

Cannonpointer » 07 Oct 2023, 11:49 pm » wrote: ↑

07 Oct 2023, 11:49 pm

Anything that "cannot be denied" is almost certainly a lie. People are perfectly welcome to deny true things - it gives us all something to point at and laugh.

But if they deny the wrong lies, we are instructed to hate and revile them.

That depends. You're expected to pay for it. Is that okay with you - seeing them use other people's money (including yours) to suppress the resulting tumult?

If you say so. I DO have an issue with it. Because they are going to use my money to squash the resulting unrest.

There is more to israel making jerusalem the capitol - and the US abetting it - than you appear to understand. The relevance of the distance betwixt tel aviv and jerusalem is entirely off topic. That you bring it up betrays a shallow understanding of the issue.

You might be better served by opining less and questioning more, so as to be up to speed on the ACTUAL issue (and it is NOT the distance between cities).

I was going to rant about the symbology of it all... Oh-so-very important.
Yet the hypocrisy about symbols being unimportant (US flag for instance).
    But **** that exercise on the keyboard....

Some symbols are important and some are ox-goring irrelevancies. Depends which side you want to **** on.
I mentioned the 48 minute drive as a tongue-in-cheek jab.
****, people make a big deal out of "reaching across the aisle" and that's 10 feet. Symbolic.   

You are WAY more interested in and, consequently, more informed about this **** than I ever will be.
Matching wits with any Jew-haters is tough for me. You guys have lots of ammo.   

I ask a simple "Why, Mommy?" question and get thumped for daring to do so.   

Over the years I went from thinking Israel is our "anchored aircraft carrier" helping keep watch
to a suspicious-as-hell-dick that hopes it sinks soon.

I was young and dumb about it. Very busy with my career. Just wasn't interested. I admit as much.
 Didn't seek any input but what was shoved at me.

I believe many people fall into that bubble.

Cannonpointer » 08 Oct 2023, 12:00 am » wrote: ↑

08 Oct 2023, 12:00 am

Color me skeptical. But yeah - the pretense it will promote peace is an even BIGGER Donnie.

Edit - I duckduckgoed it. Clinton criticized bush for not caving on that - so... True. Truthy at a minimum.

-----------------------------------------------

During the 1992 presidential election, Bill Clinton promised that his administration would "support Jerusalem as the capital of the State of Israel" and criticized President George H. 

Majik » 07 Oct 2023, 11:50 am » wrote: ↑

07 Oct 2023, 11:50 am

Netanyahu needed a war to stop the civil unrest against him in Israel .....
Hamas was created by Israel for just such an occasion .....
people need to learn the Truth about Hamas ....

.WHAT DO YOU know about Hamas?

That it’s sworn to destroy Israel? That it’s a terrorist group, proscribed both by the United States and the European Union? That it rules Gaza with an iron fist? That it’s killed hundreds of innocent Israelis with rocket, mortar, and suicide attacks?But did you also know that Hamas — which is an Arabic acronym for “Islamic Resistance Movement” — would probably not exist today were it not for the Jewish state? That the Israelis helped turn a bunch of fringe Palestinian Islamists in the late 1970s into one of the world’s most notorious militant groups? That Hamas is blowback?This isn’t a conspiracy theory. Listen to former Israeli officials such as Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev, who was the Israeli military governor in Gaza in the early 1980s. Segev later told a New York Times reporter that he had helped finance the Palestinian Islamist movement as a “counterweight” to the secularists and leftists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and the Fatah party, led by Yasser Arafat (who himself referred to Hamas as “a creature of Israel.”)“

             Hamas was spawned out of the Muslim Brotherhood, an Islamic based political & social movement which was formed in Egypt in the 1920s.... All of the founding members of Hamas were also members of the Muslim Brotherhood... The formation of Hamas was not a counterweight to the secular PLO / Fatah which seeks self-determination and the right to return of Palestinians ... Fatah is also open to a 2 State solution, based on returning to the pre 1967 borders... The Hamas Charter seeks the complete elimination of Israel, and to negate all agreements / treaties between Fatah and Israel put that entire region under Islamic rule...  It sees itself as a replacement to Fatah in the West Bank, just as they replaced them in Gaza --- not a counterbalance.... 

Cannonpointer » 08 Oct 2023, 12:00 am » wrote: ↑

08 Oct 2023, 12:00 am

Color me skeptical. But yeah - the pretense it will promote peace is an even BIGGER Donnie.

Edit - I duckduckgoed it. Clinton criticized bush for not caving on that - so... True. Truthy at a minimum.

george h bush tried to make it more fair for palestine.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

https://cssh.northeastern.edu/george-h- ... gressives/

Although the circumstances today are not identical, Bush’s showdown with Israel in 1991 over the terms of U.S. loan guarantees serves as an illustration of what a more evenhanded U.S. approach to the conflict could look like. Bush withheld the loan guarantees until he was satisfied that the money borrowed with U.S. assistance would not go toward Israeli settlements in the Palestinian territories.“Bush established consequences for bad behavior, and he got results,” said James Zogby, president of the Arab American Institute. “It can happen again.” At the very least, progressives see Bush’s actions as a useful reminder that renegotiating U.S. aid to Israel is not an extreme, left-wing idea.
 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/how-lonel ... ationship/

Kobia2 » 08 Oct 2023, 12:15 am » wrote: ↑

08 Oct 2023, 12:15 am

             Hamas was spawned out of the Muslim Brotherhood, an Islamic based political & social movement which was formed in Egypt in the 1920s.... All of the founding members of Hamas were also members of the Muslim Brotherhood... The formation of Hamas was not a counterweight to the secular PLO / Fatah which seeks self-determination and the right to return of Palestinians ... Fatah is also open to a 2 State solution, based on returning to the pre 1967 borders... The Hamas Charter seeks the complete elimination of Israel, and to negate all agreements / treaties between Fatah and Israel put that entire region under Islamic rule...  It sees itself as a replacement to Fatah in the West Bank, just as they replaced them in Gaza --- not a counterbalance.... 

Sounds like Iran might be using Hamas the way the US used militants against al-Assad, obeying the same international code that the U.S. followed when it decided who should govern Syria - or Ukraine - or Iraq - or Egypt - or Lybia - or Affie - or nicaragua - or el salvador - or any of dozens of others, and who has or does not have the right to self-determination. 

So long as they behave the same way that the U.S. MIC does, I'm sure it is in keeping with all applicable international laws and acceptable standards of conduct. 

He made clear the cost of an American president waging a political fight against the vast coalition of pro-Israel lobbying groups. In doing so, he exposed the limits of what the world’s most powerful man can do when trying to solve the world’s seemingly most intractable conflict.

One of the most controversial moments of his single-term presidency was when Bush delayed Israel loan guarantees until it halted its settlement building in the West Bank and Gaza and entered a peace conference with the Palestinians, what would later became known as the Madrid Peace Conference.

The United States had previously agreed to provide Israel $10 billion in loan guarantees to help Soviet Jews resettle in Israel. But in September 1991, Bush said that the United States would not issue those guarantees until prime minister Yitzhak Shamir agreed to those demands.

*********“It is in the best interest of the peace process and of peace itself that consideration of this absorption aid question for Israel be deferred for simply 120 days,” Bush told reporters. “I think the American people will strongly support me in this. I’m going to fight for it because I think this is what the American people want, and I’m going to do absolutely everything I can to back those members of the United States Congress who are forward-looking in their desire to see peace.”That set off a bitter political fight on Capitol Hill, with pro-Israel organizations, most notably the powerful American-Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), seeking to muster enough Congressional support to override the president.

*****AIPAC and Congressional leaders dropped the fight over the 120-day delay. Eventually, Bush’s diplomatic efforts worked and Israel entered the Madrid Peace Conference in October 1991.While an undeniable achievement for Bush, that episode was not without its costs. Bush’s backing by American Jews took a nosedive immediately thereafter, despite his landmark support for helping Jews escape trouble spots around the world, from Russia to Syria to Ethiopia

*******Receiving 35% of the Jewish vote in 1988, Bush only got 11% in 1992, when he lost to Bill Clinton. Only one Republican nominee for president has received a smaller portion of Jewish support — when Barry Goldwater claimed just 10% in 1964. Roughly 25% of American Jews voted for Donald Trump in 2016.Bush’s defeat in 1992 was not mainly because of his contentious relationship with Israel. Rather, Bill Clinton seized upon the economic frustrations of American voters. “It’s the economy, stupid,” Clinton’s adviser James Carville memorably said.But American presidents have since been cautious to avoid paying for challenging Israel like that — for using their leverage — and none really has, especially not in their first term.


https://cssh.northeastern.edu/george-h- ... gressives/

 
 

jerrab » 08 Oct 2023, 12:34 am » wrote: ↑

08 Oct 2023, 12:34 am

He made clear the cost of an American president waging a political fight against the vast coalition of pro-Israel lobbying groups. In doing so, he exposed the limits of what the world’s most powerful man can do when trying to solve the world’s seemingly most intractable conflict.

One of the most controversial moments of his single-term presidency was when Bush delayed Israel loan guarantees until it halted its settlement building in the West Bank and Gaza and entered a peace conference with the Palestinians, what would later became known as the Madrid Peace Conference.

The United States had previously agreed to provide Israel $10 billion in loan guarantees to help Soviet Jews resettle in Israel. But in September 1991, Bush said that the United States would not issue those guarantees until prime minister Yitzhak Shamir agreed to those demands.

*********“It is in the best interest of the peace process and of peace itself that consideration of this absorption aid question for Israel be deferred for simply 120 days,” Bush told reporters. “I think the American people will strongly support me in this. I’m going to fight for it because I think this is what the American people want, and I’m going to do absolutely everything I can to back those members of the United States Congress who are forward-looking in their desire to see peace.”That set off a bitter political fight on Capitol Hill, with pro-Israel organizations, most notably the powerful American-Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), seeking to muster enough Congressional support to override the president.

Yeah - that was a good link. I read it. Made me respect HW a bit more. 

I generally view him as an exceptionally evil man.
 

Cannonpointer » 07 Oct 2023, 1:42 pm » wrote: ↑

07 Oct 2023, 1:42 pm

Tell us this. If Hamas DID care about the Palis, what would they want for them?

What changes in the fortunes of the Palis might Hamas want to see - if they DID care for them?

Hamas believes that eradicating Israel is the only "fortune" the Palis need.

Cannonpointer » 07 Oct 2023, 10:37 pm » wrote: ↑

07 Oct 2023, 10:37 pm

Unless Hamas is a jewish intelligence creation for the purpose of false-flag problem/solution psy-ops. 

Then, not so much.

Hamas are agents of Iran more so than saviors of Palestine.

Palestine is simply the best vantage point to attack Israel from and creates a certain plausible deniability on Iran's part.

If Hamas really cared about the Palestinians then they wouldn't be (cowardly) launching attacks from right beside hospitals and schools, knowing that thr retaliatory strikes from Israel would specifically impact innocent civilians.
 

Neo » 07 Oct 2023, 9:41 am » wrote: ↑

07 Oct 2023, 9:41 am

It won't be a war. Gaza pissed on a hornets nest, results are predictable. I feel sorry for the innocent people who have died and will die on both sides. Praying for peace.

I love the Israelis...**** with them and find out...the last thing they worry about is being "politically correct" when it come to retal...

I hope the military equipment plugs left in Afghanistan did not fit into hamas’ hands

Why do Jews vote democrat in the US?

PhiloBeddo » 07 Oct 2023, 11:09 am » wrote: ↑

07 Oct 2023, 11:09 am

You allow it in your community, and you are a terrorist too.

Are you an ancestor adapting in space now or a character pretending you don't know how evolving is self evident by the time youa re alive here never same total sum developing forward here same time every other reproduction is evolving at the same time.

Series parallel time occupying space now.

Genetics has always eternally separated the reproductions native in this atmosphere each as unique to the universe as they are against each generation existed or existing now. Parents and siblings of compounding results creating generation gaps of original arrivals,

16 great great grandparents and siblings that didn't become 16 great great grandparents, adding
8 great grandparents and siblings that didn't become 8 great grandparents, delivering
4 grandparents and siblings that didn't become grandparents conceiving,
2 parenting last generation living
each great great grandchild that did or doesn't become DNA donors to 50% each child(universal binary code 0 or 1)
25% each grandchild
12.5% each great grandchild
6.25% each great great grandchild.

Do you comprehend your chromosomes are combined by rule of 72 defining yields on investments and returns on tax revenues where governments yield their income 10 fold over citizens earning a living pretending now isn't eternity.

               Probably the best look into the history, formation, tactics and goals of Hamas can be read in the book Son of Hamas  by Mosab Hassan Yousef... I picked up a copy when it was released.. Mosab was a militant in the upper echelons of the organization --- and his father was Sheikh Hassan Yousef, the spiritual founder/leader of Hamas... He abandoned Hamas & Islam and converted to Christianity... 

Cannonpointer » 07 Oct 2023, 10:35 pm » wrote: ↑

07 Oct 2023, 10:35 pm

The love buying nice things for jews with other people's money.

That right there^^,,,, hilarious