Liberal Forum

Warcok » 15 Oct 2023, 4:45 pm » wrote: ↑

15 Oct 2023, 4:45 pm

I feel so bad slobbing down Mexican like a pig and watching football while Israeli babies are being decapitated in front of their parents.  

american guilt

Sumela » 15 Oct 2023, 7:14 pm » wrote: ↑

15 Oct 2023, 7:14 pm

Heartbreaking

----------------------------------------------------

https://www.vox.com/world/2023/2/6/2358 ... e-solution

More US policymakers should clearly acknowledge just how limited the possibility of a two-state outcome is. A “do no harm” approach is a better guiding principle than the current two-state word salad that will only further undermine US credibility in the Middle East.Or else, to show that the Biden administration is indeed committed to an independent Palestinian state, it should state clearly what it’s actively doing to advance that. To start, allowing a Palestinian diplomatic office to open in Washington and re-launching a US consulate in Jerusalem for Palestinians, undoing Trump policies that undermined Palestinian representation.Even if the US remained committed in name to the two-state solution, there are plenty of things Blinken could have said or done during his trip to show that the United States was willing to use its leverage to adjust to the dangerous status quo. He could have hinted that the use of American weapons is in violation of the Leahy Law for purposes that aren’t defensive. He could have cut off the use of 501(c)3 charities that send US money to illegal settlements in the occupied West Bank. He could have said that the US might no longer stand up for Israel in international forums like the United Nations Security Council or the International Criminal Court.
 
 

JustinSane » 15 Oct 2023, 2:15 pm » wrote: ↑

15 Oct 2023, 2:15 pm

Generally speaking it seems pretty fed up with Islam as well. All these people bitching about how awful the US is, I find somewhat astonishing. The US or Iran? Go on, choose where you want to live. Choose who you want as the dominant global power. Choose where you want your daughter to grow up

Preferring to live where we grew up and among our own kind does not obligate us to throw ourselves at israel's crotch with you. 

I would MUCH PREFER my daughter grow up in our enemy iran than in our ally saudi arabia - so what are you driving at?

A foreign policy disagreement does not make you the minister of emigration. "America - love it or leave it" was a cowardly dodge LONG before you picked it up and ran with it. 

Currently, the united states is pushing trans rights and gay rights on people who are not mentally and culturally sick. DO YOU SUPPORT THE U.S. TRANS-BULLYING MOVEMENT, son? 

Yes/ no - and if no, why don't you go live in iran?
 

jerrab » 15 Oct 2023, 8:57 pm » wrote: ↑

15 Oct 2023, 8:57 pm

----------------------------------------------------More US policymakers should clearly acknowledge just how limited the possibility of a two-state outcome is. A “do no harm” approach is a better guiding principle than the current two-state word salad that will only further undermine US credibility in the Middle East.Or else, to show that the Biden administration is indeed committed to an independent Palestinian state, it should state clearly what it’s actively doing to advance that. To start, allowing a Palestinian diplomatic office to open in Washington and re-launching a US consulate in Jerusalem for Palestinians, undoing Trump policies that undermined Palestinian representation.Even if the US remained committed in name to the two-state solution, there are plenty of things Blinken could have said or done during his trip to show that the United States was willing to use its leverage to adjust to the dangerous status quo. He could have hinted that the use of American weapons is in violation of the Leahy Law for purposes that aren’t defensive. He could have cut off the use of 501(c)3 charities that send US money to illegal settlements in the occupied West Bank. He could have said that the US might no longer stand up for Israel in international forums like the United Nations Security Council or the International Criminal Court.

Sir, agreed on every point.  
 

Cannonpointer » 15 Oct 2023, 8:57 pm » wrote: ↑

15 Oct 2023, 8:57 pm

Preferring to live where we grew up and among our own kind does not obligate us to throw ourselves at israel's crotch with you. 

I would MUCH PREFER my daughter grow up in our enemy iran than in our ally saudi arabia - so what are you driving at?

A foreign policy disagreement does not make you the minister of emigration. "America - love it or leave it" was a cowardly dodge LONG before you picked it up and ran with it. 

Currently, the united states is pushing trans rights and gay rights on people who are not mentally and culturally sick. DO YOU SUPPORT THE U.S. TRANS-BULLYING MOVEMENT, son? 

Yes/ no - and if no, why don't you go live in iran?

What was that you were just saying about false equivalencies?

I think I just found one.  


 

************************

All the while, the US strengthens its relationship with Israel as its government pursues policies that are more and more extreme. Before Blinken’s visit, the US and Israel conducted a military exercise that looked like a dress rehearsal of a war with Iran — and distastefully created a video-game-like highlight reel of it — as Israeli settlers escalated violent attacks on Palestinians.

RedheadedStranger » 15 Oct 2023, 8:59 pm » wrote: ↑

15 Oct 2023, 8:59 pm

What was that you were just saying about false equivalencies?

I think I just found one.

Show me don't blow me. 

Where did I run a false equivalency?
 

*******************************************

The new Israeli government that took office in January is brazenly exclusionary and illiberal. It has declared in its own guidelines that the “Jewish people have the exclusive and indisputable right to all parts of the Land of Israel,” and it has already taken steps to strengthen settlements and push punitive measures against Palestinians for going to the United Nations and International Criminal Court.

But the actions that have foreclosed the possibility of a two-state solution are decades in the making — a trend that has been concealed by the persistence of US politicians discussing Israel and America’s shared democratic values. Successive US administrations have said that there is “no sunlight” between the US and Israel, and that the security relationship is “ironclad.” Biden national security adviser Jake Sullivan on a recent trip described the US commitment to Israel as “bone deep.” That narrative is now a much tougher sell with Israel’s undemocratic forces ascendant.

At the same time, Israeli settlers number more than 700,000 in the West Bank and East Jerusalem — and they have grown more aggressive. (The village of Khan Al-Ahmar outside Jerusalem in the occupied West Bank, for example, has long been under threat of demolition, and now its residents face imminent displacement and dispossession.) Settlers are integrated into Israeli leadership, the military, and security services, and they control part of those services. The de-facto annexation of Palestinian land is the policy of this new Israeli government.

Cannonpointer » 15 Oct 2023, 9:03 pm » wrote: ↑

15 Oct 2023, 9:03 pm

Show me don't blow me. 

Where did I run a false equivalency?

Like I said, when you show me, I'll show you.

You've been saying that **** for days now without any back up, yet you demand backup when someone hands the **** back to you.

Sorry buddy, homie don't roll like that.

I will give you a little taste though...



I would MUCH PREFER my daughter grow up in our enemy iran than in our ally saudi arabia - so what are you driving at?


The person you were replying to was comparing the US to Iran... and your tossing Saudi Arabia into the equation was, say it with me now...

A false equivalency.

Do better man. This is embarrassing.

 

RedheadedStranger » 15 Oct 2023, 9:17 pm » wrote: ↑

15 Oct 2023, 9:17 pm

Like I said, when you show me, I'll show you.

You've been saying that **** for days now without any back up, yet you demand backup when someone hands the **** back to you.

Sorry buddy, homie don't roll like that.

I will give you a little taste though...

I would MUCH PREFER my daughter grow up in our enemy iran than in our ally saudi arabia - so what are you driving at?

The person you were replying to was comparing the US to Iran... and your tossing Saudi Arabia into the equation was, say it with me now...

A false equivalency.

Do better man. This is embarrassing.

******. At the time when you did a REAL false equivalency, I called it out for what it was, and I explained WHY it was a false equivalency.

Okay, I get it. You are truculent about being called on something you are not competent to comprehend or properly identify, and your revenge is to just keep calling anything and everything a false equivalency and then refusing to explain HOW it is a false equivalency. 

Just admit you're a girl and all is forgiven.      
 

RedheadedStranger » 15 Oct 2023, 8:59 pm » wrote: ↑

15 Oct 2023, 8:59 pm

What was that you were just saying about false equivalencies?

I think I just found one.

So... were you or were you not equating the US to Saudi Arabia in the quote I just posted that YOU made.

Yes or no will suffice... your **** doesn't dazzle me in the least.

 
 
 

Cannonpointer » 15 Oct 2023, 9:22 pm » wrote: ↑

15 Oct 2023, 9:22 pm

******. At the time when you did a REAL false equivalency, I called it out for what it was, and I explained WHY it was a false equivalency.

Okay, I get it. You are truculent about being called on something you are not competent to comprehend or properly identify, and your revenge is to just keep calling anything and everything a false equivalency and then refusing to explain HOW it is a false equivalency. 

Just admit you're a girl and all is forgiven.     

So... were you or were you not equating the US to Saudi Arabia in the quote I just posted that YOU made.

Yes or no will suffice... your **** doesn't dazzle me in the least.

-----------------------------------------------------------

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... -zelenskiy

Palestinians in Gaza, the West Bank and Israel all live under various regimes of organized discrimination and oppression, much of which makes life nearly unlivable, and if the US media can’t even frame the issue correctly, what use is there in even covering it?

It’s not just laziness either. The reflexive identification with Israel, by both US media professionals and politicians, always obscures the fuller picture of what’s happening between Israel and the Palestinians.

On 7 October, the national security council spokesperson Adrienne Watson stated that the US “unequivocally condemns the unprovoked attacks by Hamas terrorists against Israeli civilians”. Every one of us must stand up and denounce the killing of every civilian, Israeli or Palestinian or otherwise. But Watson’s use of the word “unprovoked” is doing a lot of work here.

What exactly counts as a provocation? Not, apparently, the large number of settlers, more than 800 by one media account, who stormed al-Aqsa mosque on 5 October. Not the 248 Palestinians killed by Israeli forces or settlers between 1 January and 4 October of this year. Not the denial of Palestinian human rights and national aspirations for decades.
 

RedheadedStranger » 15 Oct 2023, 9:27 pm » wrote: ↑

15 Oct 2023, 9:27 pm

So... were you or were you not equating the US to Saudi Arabia in the quote I just posted that YOU made.

THANK YOU. You made a case for your claim.

No, I was not. I was DISTINGUISHING saudi from iran, and pointing out that the **** one was our buddy and the less **** one was our enemy. My purpose was to highlight the hypocrisy of the "love it or leave it" narrative I was responding to.

RedheadedStranger » 15 Oct 2023, 9:27 pm » wrote: ↑

15 Oct 2023, 9:27 pm

Yes or no will suffice... your **** doesn't dazzle me in the least.

This is false.

When you accuse a fellow, and FINALLY make your case, he gets to make his.

Also, you are a liar. My **** absolutely DOES dazzle you.
 
 

Cannonpointer » 15 Oct 2023, 9:32 pm » wrote: ↑

15 Oct 2023, 9:32 pm

THANK YOU. You made a case for your claim.

No, I was not. I was DISTINGUISHING saudi from iran, and pointing out that the **** one was our buddy and the less **** one was our enemy. My purpose was to highlight the hypocrisy of the "love it or leave it" narrative I was responding to.

This is false.

When you accuse a fellow, and FINALLY make your case, he gets to make his.

Also, you are a liar. My **** absolutely DOES dazzle you.

Your purpose was to highlight the hypocrisy of the "love it or leave it" narrative you were responding to... by using a false equivalency!


 
 
 

RedheadedStranger » 15 Oct 2023, 9:37 pm » wrote: ↑

15 Oct 2023, 9:37 pm

Your purpose was to highlight the hypocrisy of the "love it or leave it" narrative you were responding to... by using a false equivalency!
 

Like I said, you are not competent to define or identify a false equivalency. 
 

Cannonpointer » 15 Oct 2023, 9:39 pm » wrote: ↑

15 Oct 2023, 9:39 pm

Like I said, you are not competent to define or identify a false equivalency.

You were falsely equating Saudi Arabia to the U.S. in a lame attempt to call the poster a hypocrite... which you failed at doing anyway.

Explain to me how that isn't a false equivalency.

Go.
 

RedheadedStranger » 15 Oct 2023, 9:44 pm » wrote: ↑

15 Oct 2023, 9:44 pm

You were falsely equating Saudi Arabia to the U.S. in a lame attempt to call the poster a hypocrite... which you failed at doing anyway.

Explain to me how that isn't a false equivalency.

Go.

Already told ya what really happened. In no way, shape or form did I equate saudi arabia to the us. 

I contrasted it with iran. 

Saudi arabia puts up with ZERO ***, zero tranny ****. That equates with america on no level, son. Your tyranny agenda would meet with an asswhipping there.
 
You would go outside in a skirt ONCE.