Liberal Forum

Many people have climbed aboard the electric-vehicle bandwagon, lured by promises of pristine air and cheap, easy-to-use electricity that make EVs seem inevitable. But now, after years of spending billions on subsidies and shaming people into buying into our inevitable all-electric future, some are slamming on the brakes — surprisingly, including many of the biggest companies in the industry.The global companies, recipients of massive subsidies to support fossil-fuel abolition, are backing away from their support.General Motors, faced with a strike, just abandoned its EV strategy,  while the AutoBlog points out that Mercedes “is finding that customers aren’t as excited about new EVs as it is.”Elon Musk’s Tesla lost an estimated $28 billion in value after reporting what were called “disastrous third-quarter earnings.” Ford, faced with dramatically slowing sales, just announced it will delay $12 billion in EV investments.

 With companies providing far more electric vehicles than consumers want, Toyota’s Chairman Akio Toyoda this week claimed “people are finally seeing (the) reality” of EVs.There are many reasons for this sudden slump. But a few stick out.For one, even after all the subsidies, EVs are still pricey, especially at current interest rates, which have nearly doubled from an average of 3.9% at the end of 2021 to around 7.4% today.Meanwhile, anywhere from a quarter to a third of EV charging stations is out or disabled at any given time. There are an estimated 150,000 gas stations in the U.S., but just 10,000 fast-charging outlets. And even if you find a working charger, it’s expensive: Roadside chargers can be five to 10 times more costly than home chargers.What happens if you’re in the middle of nowhere and you can’t find a working charger? Sorry, your “car” is no longer a car. It’s now dead metal.A just-released report from the Texas Public Policy Foundation finds that Americans don’t fully understand the real costs of EVs due to the government’s massive involvement in the market. The numbers are shocking: “The average model year 2021 EV would cost $48,698 more to own over a 10-year period without $22 billion in government favors given to EV manufacturers and owners,” the report notes.

 
 

Moreover, “adding the costs of the subsidies to the true cost of fueling an EV would equate to an EV owner paying $17.33 per gallon of gasoline.”Those enormous EV subsidies aren’t going to the poor, or even the middle class. They’re basically welfare for the mostly wealthy. Don’t believe it? The average Tesla owner is an upper-middle-income male with more than $130,00 in income, according to a study by Hedges & Company.At the same time, even the most coddled participants in the raid on taxpayer dollars that the green Industry represents are having problems, especially those in the alternative energy industry that are expected to supply the juice for the new EV world.That includes wind-energy giant GE, which this month announced it’ll lose a cool (pun intended) $1 billion this year on its wind operations. The solar energy industry’s troubles have been widely reported.As the Daily Caller observed, “the (GE) announcement is the latest sign of trouble for the offshore wind industry, which has seen other leading companies take substantial losses as supply chain woes, inflation, logistical problems and higher borrowing costs have eaten into profit margins.”Will money-losing energy companies still invest enough to satisfy the immense amount of electricity needed to fuel the future demand by EVs? The answer is clearly no, since, “the U.S. would need to produce 20-50% more electricity annually if all cars were electric vehicles.”With utilities shuttering coal and gas plants, and with few exceptions, not building new, safe nuclear plants, the chances of increasing electricity output by 50% a year in any meaningful timeframe are nil and none.
 

Yet California, New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts, Maryland have all decreed that no more gasoline-burning cars will be sold within their borders by 2035. Some 60 countries around the world are also trying to regulate cars out of existence.They’re joined by the Biden administration, which is shooting for 50% of all cars sold being electric by 2030, 100% by 2040, even as it pursues a “net zero” strategy of killing off all conventional energy sources.And, as we’ve reported here, here and elsewhere, it’s not clear that EVs are environmentally cleaner than conventional cars. They just hide their dirt better.“It’s a familiar pattern of selling complicated policies as simple fixes, where the cultural gatekeepers misrepresent EVs as a ‘net zero’ technology, lowball the total land area needed to build out solar and wind farms, and make it difficult if not impossible for critics to question the apocalyptic assumptions and dystopian predictions of climate action advocates,” noted Real Clear Investigations in its report, “Mega-Jolt: The Costs and Logistics of Plugging In EVs Are About to Become Supercharged.”EVs are nifty, we admit. They’re fast. They’re sleek. They quietly hum. Many like owning them. But they have so many drawbacks — spontaneous fires, lack of charging stations, high insurance and repair costs, not enough electricity capacity — that they’re not ready for prime time. And their lavish government support is grossly unfair to average Americans.“Electric vehicle owners have been the beneficiaries of regulatory credits, subsidies, and socialized infrastructure costs totaling nearly $50,000 per EV,” Jason Isaac, an author of the Texas study, told Fox Digital. “These costs are borne by gasoline vehicle owners, taxpayers, and utility ratepayers, who are all paying a hefty price for someone else’s EV.”With the costs and problems with EVs now on the radar, the EV sales boom appears to be skidding to an abrupt stop. Good. Some day, the technology and electricity might be available for a genuine boom in EV auto sales, one driven by market demand, not by government command. As for now, the government’s EV bubble looks like it just popped.

https://issuesinsights.com/2023/10/27/h ... the-shark/
 
 

Majik » 27 Oct 2023, 12:25 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Oct 2023, 12:25 pm

Yet California, New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts, Maryland have all decreed that no more gasoline-burning cars will be sold within their borders by 2035. Some 60 countries around the world are also trying to regulate cars out of existence.They’re joined by the Biden administration, which is shooting for 50% of all cars sold being electric by 2030, 100% by 2040, even as it pursues a “net zero” strategy of killing off all conventional energy sources.And, as we’ve reported here, here and elsewhere, it’s not clear that EVs are environmentally cleaner than conventional cars. They just hide their dirt better.“It’s a familiar pattern of selling complicated policies as simple fixes, where the cultural gatekeepers misrepresent EVs as a ‘net zero’ technology, lowball the total land area needed to build out solar and wind farms, and make it difficult if not impossible for critics to question the apocalyptic assumptions and dystopian predictions of climate action advocates,” noted Real Clear Investigations in its report, “Mega-Jolt: The Costs and Logistics of Plugging In EVs Are About to Become Supercharged.”EVs are nifty, we admit. They’re fast. They’re sleek. They quietly hum. Many like owning them. But they have so many drawbacks — spontaneous fires, lack of charging stations, high insurance and repair costs, not enough electricity capacity — that they’re not ready for prime time. And their lavish government support is grossly unfair to average Americans.“Electric vehicle owners have been the beneficiaries of regulatory credits, subsidies, and socialized infrastructure costs totaling nearly $50,000 per EV,” Jason Isaac, an author of the Texas study, told Fox Digital. “These costs are borne by gasoline vehicle owners, taxpayers, and utility ratepayers, who are all paying a hefty price for someone else’s EV.”With the costs and problems with EVs now on the radar, the EV sales boom appears to be skidding to an abrupt stop. Good. Some day, the technology and electricity might be available for a genuine boom in EV auto sales, one driven by market demand, not by government command. As for now, the government’s EV bubble looks like it just popped.

https://issuesinsights.com/2023/10/27/h ... the-shark/

You likely also saw the Sieman's wind power disaster

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy ... 023-08-23/
 

Majik » 27 Oct 2023, 12:24 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Oct 2023, 12:24 pm

Many people have climbed aboard the electric-vehicle bandwagon, lured by promises of pristine air and cheap, easy-to-use electricity that make EVs seem inevitable. But now, after years of spending billions on subsidies and shaming people into buying into our inevitable all-electric future, some are slamming on the brakes — surprisingly, including many of the biggest companies in the industry.The global companies, recipients of massive subsidies to support fossil-fuel abolition, are backing away from their support.General Motors, faced with a strike, just abandoned its EV strategy,  while the AutoBlog points out that Mercedes “is finding that customers aren’t as excited about new EVs as it is.”Elon Musk’s Tesla lost an estimated $28 billion in value after reporting what were called “disastrous third-quarter earnings.” Ford, faced with dramatically slowing sales, just announced it will delay $12 billion in EV investments.

 With companies providing far more electric vehicles than consumers want, Toyota’s Chairman Akio Toyoda this week claimed “people are finally seeing (the) reality” of EVs.There are many reasons for this sudden slump. But a few stick out.For one, even after all the subsidies, EVs are still pricey, especially at current interest rates, which have nearly doubled from an average of 3.9% at the end of 2021 to around 7.4% today.Meanwhile, anywhere from a quarter to a third of EV charging stations is out or disabled at any given time. There are an estimated 150,000 gas stations in the U.S., but just 10,000 fast-charging outlets. And even if you find a working charger, it’s expensive: Roadside chargers can be five to 10 times more costly than home chargers.What happens if you’re in the middle of nowhere and you can’t find a working charger? Sorry, your “car” is no longer a car. It’s now dead metal.A just-released report from the Texas Public Policy Foundation finds that Americans don’t fully understand the real costs of EVs due to the government’s massive involvement in the market. The numbers are shocking: “The average model year 2021 EV would cost $48,698 more to own over a 10-year period without $22 billion in government favors given to EV manufacturers and owners,” the report notes.

       I saw it-  Gloated.  hahahahaha.
Stupid climate cultists.
 Smarter bidness plan would have gone hybrid for a decade. Arss holes.

Seriously? Are these Ceo's that stoopid.?????

Or are they out for gubmint pay-a-la.?

Majik? Why aren't we CEO's? lol
 

Sumela » 27 Oct 2023, 12:30 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Oct 2023, 12:30 pm

You likely also saw the Sieman's wind power disaster

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy ... 023-08-23/

Yes, but here is adding insult to injury ....

Largest UK energy producer warns of 70% price riseA red flag has gone up after the latest bidding round saw no offers to build new wind farms

https://www.rt.com/business/585944-uk-e ... hike-wind/
 
 

Majik » 27 Oct 2023, 12:40 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Oct 2023, 12:40 pm

Yes, but here is adding insult to injury ....

Largest UK energy producer warns of 70% price riseA red flag has gone up after the latest bidding round saw no offers to build new wind farms

https://www.rt.com/business/585944-uk-e ... hike-wind/

 
 

sootedupCyndi » 27 Oct 2023, 12:31 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Oct 2023, 12:31 pm

       I saw it-  Gloated.  hahahahaha.
Stupid climate cultists.
 Smarter bidness plan would have gone hybrid for a decade. Arss holes.

Seriously? Are these Ceo's that stoopid.?????

Or are they out for gubmint pay-a-la.?

Majik? Why aren't we CEO's? lol

I think the CEO's put the horse before the cart mainly because of all of those free subsides and have since sobered up and realized that they were lied to considering this administration has made huge promises of providing and upgrading the necessary infrastructure for EV's and has done absolutely nothing except make more false promises.

and let's face it ....
America does not like to be forced into anything by the federal government which is exactly what Biden is doing ....
 

Saw an article early this month about a large coal powered power plant in Kansas that was to be closed. Wait...there's more. Panasonic just broke ground on a $4 billion plant to make EV batteries in DeSoto, KS. Because that plant is being built, the large coal powered power plant must remain open to provide power to make the EV batteries.   

Greenies are having cats.   
 

Majik » 27 Oct 2023, 12:24 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Oct 2023, 12:24 pm

Many people have climbed aboard the electric-vehicle bandwagon, lured by promises of pristine air and cheap, easy-to-use electricity that make EVs seem inevitable. But now, after years of spending billions on subsidies and shaming people into buying into our inevitable all-electric future, some are slamming on the brakes — surprisingly, including many of the biggest companies in the industry.The global companies, recipients of massive subsidies to support fossil-fuel abolition, are backing away from their support.General Motors, faced with a strike, just abandoned its EV strategy,  while the AutoBlog points out that Mercedes “is finding that customers aren’t as excited about new EVs as it is.”Elon Musk’s Tesla lost an estimated $28 billion in value after reporting what were called “disastrous third-quarter earnings.” Ford, faced with dramatically slowing sales, just announced it will delay $12 billion in EV investments.

 With companies providing far more electric vehicles than consumers want, Toyota’s Chairman Akio Toyoda this week claimed “people are finally seeing (the) reality” of EVs.There are many reasons for this sudden slump. But a few stick out.For one, even after all the subsidies, EVs are still pricey, especially at current interest rates, which have nearly doubled from an average of 3.9% at the end of 2021 to around 7.4% today.Meanwhile, anywhere from a quarter to a third of EV charging stations is out or disabled at any given time. There are an estimated 150,000 gas stations in the U.S., but just 10,000 fast-charging outlets. And even if you find a working charger, it’s expensive: Roadside chargers can be five to 10 times more costly than home chargers.What happens if you’re in the middle of nowhere and you can’t find a working charger? Sorry, your “car” is no longer a car. It’s now dead metal.A just-released report from the Texas Public Policy Foundation finds that Americans don’t fully understand the real costs of EVs due to the government’s massive involvement in the market. The numbers are shocking: “The average model year 2021 EV would cost $48,698 more to own over a 10-year period without $22 billion in government favors given to EV manufacturers and owners,” the report notes.

I didn't know this, but evidently Tesla doesn't profit from their cars. They profit from green credits from the government. The cars themselves just aren't profitable on their own. 

sootedupCyndi » 27 Oct 2023, 12:31 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Oct 2023, 12:31 pm

       I saw it-  Gloated.  hahahahaha.
Stupid climate cultists.
 Smarter bidness plan would have gone hybrid for a decade. Arss holes.

Seriously? Are these Ceo's that stoopid.?????

Or are they out for gubmint pay-a-la.?

Majik? Why aren't we CEO's? lol

MUSK DROPPED 28 BILLION $ and didn't even blink!  
@sooted up Cyndi  
 

Another Democrap failure

sootedupCyndi » 27 Oct 2023, 12:31 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Oct 2023, 12:31 pm

       I saw it-  Gloated.  hahahahaha.
Stupid climate cultists.
 Smarter bidness plan would have gone hybrid for a decade. Arss holes.

Seriously? Are these Ceo's that stoopid.?????

Or are they out for gubmint pay-a-la.?

Majik? Why aren't we CEO's? lol

It's not just the climate cultists, they don't have the power to push all that ****, it's the ones that enable and use them, the politicians, creepy organizations like the WEF, billionaires like Bill Gates.. those people don't believe in it themselves, there is another agenda behind it.. the great reset.. you will own nothing.. well, maybe an EV.. lol.. but not the electricy you need to drive and you will be happy..

 


 
 

Speaking of that, the cultists I mean... wtf is wong with those people..

 

https://youtu.be/vR4w9DztnS0

Jantje_Smit » 28 Oct 2023, 6:53 am » wrote: ↑

28 Oct 2023, 6:53 am

Speaking of that, the cultists I mean... wtf is wong with those people..

 

https://youtu.be/vR4w9DztnS0

and how safe is the orange powder they sprayed?   
 

Majik » 27 Oct 2023, 12:25 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Oct 2023, 12:25 pm

Yet California, New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts, Maryland have all decreed that no more gasoline-burning cars will be sold within their borders by 2035. Some 60 countries around the world are also trying to regulate cars out of existence.They’re joined by the Biden administration, which is shooting for 50% of all cars sold being electric by 2030, 100% by 2040, even as it pursues a “net zero” strategy of killing off all conventional energy sources.And, as we’ve reported here, here and elsewhere, it’s not clear that EVs are environmentally cleaner than conventional cars. They just hide their dirt better.“It’s a familiar pattern of selling complicated policies as simple fixes, where the cultural gatekeepers misrepresent EVs as a ‘net zero’ technology, lowball the total land area needed to build out solar and wind farms, and make it difficult if not impossible for critics to question the apocalyptic assumptions and dystopian predictions of climate action advocates,” noted Real Clear Investigations in its report, “Mega-Jolt: The Costs and Logistics of Plugging In EVs Are About to Become Supercharged.”EVs are nifty, we admit. They’re fast. They’re sleek. They quietly hum. Many like owning them. But they have so many drawbacks — spontaneous fires, lack of charging stations, high insurance and repair costs, not enough electricity capacity — that they’re not ready for prime time. And their lavish government support is grossly unfair to average Americans.“Electric vehicle owners have been the beneficiaries of regulatory credits, subsidies, and socialized infrastructure costs totaling nearly $50,000 per EV,” Jason Isaac, an author of the Texas study, told Fox Digital. “These costs are borne by gasoline vehicle owners, taxpayers, and utility ratepayers, who are all paying a hefty price for someone else’s EV.”With the costs and problems with EVs now on the radar, the EV sales boom appears to be skidding to an abrupt stop. Good. Some day, the technology and electricity might be available for a genuine boom in EV auto sales, one driven by market demand, not by government command. As for now, the government’s EV bubble looks like it just popped.

https://issuesinsights.com/2023/10/27/h ... the-shark/

Interesting read....

sad part is manufacturers are being forced into these ventures with subsidies being the proverbial carrot on the stick...but we know when the gubment's involved, those subsidies end up being a bag of quarters compared to the billions having to be spent on R&D...manufacturing on these scales garners enormous costs...and as if a new vehicle is expensive already...


 

sootedupCyndi » 27 Oct 2023, 12:31 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Oct 2023, 12:31 pm

       I saw it-  Gloated.  hahahahaha.
Stupid climate cultists.
 Smarter bidness plan would have gone hybrid for a decade. Arss holes.

Seriously? Are these Ceo's that stoopid.?????

Or are they out for gubmint pay-a-la.?

Majik? Why aren't we CEO's? lol

agreed, hybrids are the way to go...best of both worlds until technology presents us something new...
 

ROG62 » 28 Oct 2023, 7:58 am » wrote: ↑

28 Oct 2023, 7:58 am

agreed, hybrids are the way to go...best of both worlds until technology presents us something new...

yea- i dont know much about them- but one of my friends told me- it charges as it drives????? is that true
 

Vegas » 27 Oct 2023, 5:10 pm » wrote: ↑

27 Oct 2023, 5:10 pm

I didn't know this, but evidently Tesla doesn't profit from their cars. They profit from green credits from the government. The cars themselves just aren't profitable on their own.

Here is the scam they set up.....The taxpayer via government  takes most of the risk involved .....

How tax credits can be used to capitalize on the Green Transition

Tax policy plays a vital role in a company's ESG strategy, and it will become increasingly important as companies try to mitigate their environmental impact through the use of tax credits and incentivesTax policy plays a vital and often overlooked function in the environmental, social & governance (ESG) space. Tax reporting is a pillar of a corporation’s social contract as well as an act of financial transparency. Mitigating climate change in line with the Paris Agreement’s 1.5°C global warming limit requires an estimated $5.2 trillion per year of investment and lending to meet the limit by 2030.Through taxes, governments can finance public initiatives and subsidize private investment in green industries and other initiatives, incentivizing a shift in private capital towards activities that will further the transition to net zero emission goals. Such investments will help prevent us from breaching our planetary boundaries and mitigate physical risks such as extreme weather, droughts, floods, and wildfires.

Tax credit investments

Investment tax credits at the federal level incentivize business investment. They let businesses deduct a certain percentage of investment costs from their taxes. In the context of green energy, tax credit investments return financial capital to companies to deploy directly into investments such as renewable energy, which boosts the investor’s ESG credentials and helps align the business with a low-carbon economy. Tax credit investments, which is a method used by corporations to provide funding for a project in exchange for the right to claim the available tax credit, enable corporations to use their access to capital to pursue their own path towards a sustainable economy in accordance with their risk/return assessments.An increasingly popular option as part of an organization’s ESG strategy, tax credit investment has been and is set to become even more popular with the ambitious climate and energy policies of the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA), most of which relate to its more than 24 available tax credits. The IRA, which imposes a 15% corporate minimum tax, will drive $380 billion of investment into renewable energy and sustainable technologies, opening up new areas for tax credit investments such as electric vehicle charging infrastructure, bio-gas, green hydrogen, battery storage, and nuclear energy.One significant change the IRA made to the clean energy tax credits is to make them refundable and transferable. Transferable tax credits allow companies to sell their tax credits to other entities for cash Refundable credits allow cash payment for tax credits if the amount owed is below zero.

Many U.S. companies need RECs in order to make progress towards their publicly stated goals, such as the country’s commitment to be net zero by 2050.

Continued at...

https://www.thomsonreuters.com/en-us/po ... ransition/

 
 

Jantje_Smit » 28 Oct 2023, 4:53 am » wrote: ↑

28 Oct 2023, 4:53 am

It's not just the climate cultists, they don't have the power to push all that ****, it's the ones that enable and use them, the politicians, creepy organizations like the WEF, billionaires like Bill Gates.. those people don't believe in it themselves, there is another agenda behind it.. the great reset.. you will own nothing.. well, maybe an EV.. lol.. but not the electricy you need to drive and you will be happy..

 

It's a scam underwritten by our tax dollars .....