Liberal Forum

It's a documentary series on Netflix. Has anyone watched it? Has some interesting facts. It turns out that it was because of the Wall Street crash in 1929 that got Hitler and the Nazi regime into power. Just think. If there wasn't a crash, it would be highly unlikely that there would have been a WWII. 

Sounds fascinating. I had no idea. Thanks for sharing.
 
 

Tempest62 » 16 Nov 2023, 2:05 pm » wrote: ↑

16 Nov 2023, 2:05 pm

Sounds fascinating. I had no idea.

It has a lot of fascinating facts.  It touches on Hitler's hatred of the Jews. However, there is still no real consensus as to why. Only theories. It's possible that he may have just been sucked into what his advisors believed. He bought into the myth that it was the Jews that were to blame for losing WWI. They put communism into government which ended up throwing in the towel. That was a myth that was spread, and Hitler was on board with it. That is just one theory. 

Vegas » 16 Nov 2023, 1:58 pm » wrote: ↑

16 Nov 2023, 1:58 pm

It's a documentary series on Netflix. Has anyone watched it? Has some interesting facts. It turns out that it was because of the Wall Street crash in 1929 that got Hitler and the Nazi regime into power. Just think. If there wasn't a crash, it would be highly unlikely that there would have been a WWII.

WWII started at the end of WWI.

Skans » 16 Nov 2023, 2:41 pm » wrote: ↑

16 Nov 2023, 2:41 pm

WWII started at the end of WWI.

 

No it didn't. 

Vegas » 16 Nov 2023, 2:56 pm » wrote: ↑

16 Nov 2023, 2:56 pm

No it didn't.

Yes it did. It started with Germany's hyper inflation, low morals of the German women and a long period of chaos and depression.Germany had to

•  accept total blame for starting the war.
• were banned from joining the new League of Nations,
• give up land, including Alsace-Lorraine,
• limit their army to no more than 100,000 men and from having any submarines or an air force.

People in Germany were very angry. In addition to the above, Germans were forced to pay 132 billion gold marks as war reparations. This caused Germany to become very poor and the German citizens lost a lot of land, capital, money, jobs, etc.
 

Skans » 16 Nov 2023, 3:07 pm » wrote: ↑

16 Nov 2023, 3:07 pm

Yes it did. It started with Germany's hyper inflation, low morals of the German women and a long period of chaos and depression.Germany had to

•  accept total blame for starting the war.
• were banned from joining the new League of Nations,
• give up land, including Alsace-Lorraine,
• limit their army to no more than 100,000 men and from having any submarines or an air force.

People in Germany were very angry. In addition to the above, Germans were forced to pay 132 billion gold marks as war reparations. This caused Germany to become very poor and the German citizens lost a lot of land, capital, money, jobs, etc.

Yes, I know. I thought you meant that it started right after WWI. There was a whole generation that passed first. 

Vegas » 16 Nov 2023, 3:24 pm » wrote: ↑

16 Nov 2023, 3:24 pm

Yes, I know. I thought you meant that it started right after WWI. There was a whole generation that passed first.

If Germany were a stable nation, the NAZI party would have never risen to power. What took place between WWI and 1930 were critical to what lead up to WWII.  But, obviously, the two wars were separated by over 20 years.

I will say, however, that I question whether WWI should still be considered a true "World War".
 
 
 

Skans » 16 Nov 2023, 3:30 pm » wrote: ↑

16 Nov 2023, 3:30 pm

If Germany were a stable nation, the NAZI party would have never risen to power. What took place between WWI and 1930 were critical to what lead up to WWII.  But, obviously, the two wars were separated by over 20 years.

I will say, however, that I question whether WWI should still be considered a true "World War".

That was the point of my OP. The stock market crash put Hitler/Nazis in power. Before that, they only got 3% of the total votes in their elections. The people were just starting to prosper, unemployment was lower, and businesses were beginning to thrive again. During Hitler's campaign (1924 I think?) , he had predicted an economic crash. The people didn't go for the whole doom and gloom message, so he lost big time. Then when the crash happened, people realized that Hitler predicted it, so he and the Nazis rose to power. 

Vegas » 16 Nov 2023, 3:38 pm » wrote: ↑

16 Nov 2023, 3:38 pm

That was the point of my OP. The stock market crash put Hitler/Nazis in power. Before that, they only got 3% of the total votes in their elections. The people were just starting to prosper, unemployment was lower, and businesses were beginning to thrive again. During Hitler's campaign (1924 I think?) , he had predicted an economic crash. The people didn't go for the whole doom and gloom message, so he lost big time. Then when the crash happened, people realized that Hitler predicted it, so he and the Nazis rose to power.

That was a big part of it.
 

Vegas » 16 Nov 2023, 2:10 pm » wrote: ↑

16 Nov 2023, 2:10 pm

It has a lot of fascinating facts.  It touches on Hitler's hatred of the Jews. However, there is still no real consensus as to why. Only theories. It's possible that he may have just been sucked into what his advisors believed. He bought into the myth that it was the Jews that were to blame for losing WWI. They put communism into government which ended up throwing in the towel. That was a myth that was spread, and Hitler was on board with it. That is just one theory.

The misery the treaty of Versailles caused to the average German wasn't myth. Very real consequences from their actions in wwi. Hitler smartly packaged it as juden and was successful in gaining popular support. Never elected but assigned the role of chancellor as a result. Pain was real, scapegoat was not. 
 

Vegas » 16 Nov 2023, 1:58 pm » wrote: ↑

16 Nov 2023, 1:58 pm

It turns out that it was because of the Wall Street crash in 1929 that got Hitler and the Nazi regime into power.

IMHO...no single event could have brought Hitler (or anyone for the fact) to power !

And just think...if I was born rich I'd be out on my yatch...is stead of pounding my key board.
. 
 
.  
 

Neo » 16 Nov 2023, 4:04 pm » wrote: ↑

16 Nov 2023, 4:04 pm

The misery the treaty of Versailles caused to the average German wasn't myth. Very real consequences from their actions in wwi. Hitler smartly packaged it as juden and was successful in gaining popular support. Never elected but assigned the role of chancellor as a result. Pain was real, scapegoat was not.

Neo. Are you having comprehension problems? Where did I say anywhere that Versailles caused to the average German was a myth? I said that Hitler believed that the reason they lost was because the Jews influenced the elections enough to put communism in power. Subsequently, the communist party surrendered. That was the myth. Yes, communism was in power at the time, but they didn't lose the war because the Jews had something to do with it. 

Seriously. You have been outside your mind lately. 

Vegas » 16 Nov 2023, 4:55 pm » wrote: ↑

16 Nov 2023, 4:55 pm

Neo. Are you having comprehension problems? Where did I say anywhere that Versailles caused to the average German was a myth? I said that Hitler believed that the reason they lost was because the Jews influenced the elections enough to put communism in power. Subsequently, the communist party surrendered. That was the myth. Yes, communism was in power at the time, but they didn't lose the war because the Jews had something to do with it. 

Seriously. You have been outside your mind lately.

We seem to agree here. Check yourself before you wreck yourself or something. 
 

First of all, any mainstream media production is going to be revisionist and biased.

Secondly, EVERY person has evil within him. We’re all damaged goods.

I think Skans does a good summary, but there is so much more.

The revolutionaries in Russia who deposed the tsar influenced German affairs. The Germans were winning the war in 1916. The communists fomented discontent among working men, especially those in the munitions factories. The communists instigated labor strikes in this industry and others to seriously cripple the German economy. This led to the German Revolution 1918-1919.

When Germany lost the war, German citizens were stunned. They wondered how a war not fought on German soil could have such an outcome.

Communists filled the new “interim” government. Society was full of influential communist groups, such as the Spartacus League. The new government capitulated to France and accepted the entire blame for the war.

Groups like the German National People’s Party were filled with veterans who were very bitter about the war’s outcome. Marxists flooded the country and scooped up real estate. They did this for the proverbial pennies on the dollar. In addition, these Marxists made a mockery of German society. Magnus Hirschfeld was a radical pervert who performed one of the world’s first transsexual surgeries. Academia was filled with the perverted curricula you see in today’s schools of higher learning.

Don't forget that Americans were isolationist at the start of the war, but were whipped up into a warlike frenzy when the press started printing falsehoods.

Gotta go, so more later.  If you wonder about all this trouble in the Middle East today, then look up the Balfour Declaration and Chaim Weizmann.  And then there is the monster Churchill who knew that cars and appliances were the thing of the future.  He foresaw this as far back as 1914.  They needed to secure an oil foothold in the Middle East.
 
 
 

Vegas » 16 Nov 2023, 2:10 pm » wrote: ↑

16 Nov 2023, 2:10 pm

It has a lot of fascinating facts.  It touches on Hitler's hatred of the Jews. However, there is still no real consensus as to why. Only theories. It's possible that he may have just been sucked into what his advisors believed. He bought into the myth that it was the Jews that were to blame for losing WWI. They put communism into government which ended up throwing in the towel. That was a myth that was spread, and Hitler was on board with it. That is just one theory.

A few things about Hitler I will mention.  Generally speaking Hitler during his formative years was a day-dreamer, a wannabe artist who was rejected because he wasn't very talented.  He was also inspired by Nordic mythology - almost in a comic-book sense.  During that time, while he was trying to be an artist he even worked for a Jew, and as far as anyone can tell, they got along.

However, I suspect (but do not have much evidence of this) that Vienna's art scene was lousy with Jews, Jews who were intellectuals and who were more into modern art at the time.  He was rejected by these artists, 1) because Hitler did not care for modern art, 2) he was not much of an intellectual and 3) because truthfully, Hitler's paintings were mostly landscapes which were "flat", lacked any depth or interesting perspective (example below).  Honestly, even Bob Ross had quite a bit more talent for painting than poor Adolf.

This F-ed with Adolf's head.  He was out of his comfort zone living and working in Vienna and he was being ridiculed and rejected by those (probably Jews) which shot right to the core of his ego. 

Then there is Hitler's military service during WWI, and Hitler shined in his service in the German military. There he learned to despise Bolshevism, which had some connections with Jewish intellectuals.  Of course, Germany was thoroughly defeated in this war fell into years of despair. This is likely what began to solidify Hitler's hate of the Jews. 

That is my explanation for the "why".


 
 
 

Skans » 16 Nov 2023, 2:41 pm » wrote: ↑

16 Nov 2023, 2:41 pm

WWII started at the end of WWI.

My mother said they needed a grocery cart full of cash to go grocery shopping...a loaf of bread was 100,000 Deutsch Mark...
 

Skans » 16 Nov 2023, 3:07 pm » wrote: ↑

16 Nov 2023, 3:07 pm

Yes it did. It started with Germany's hyper inflation, low morals of the German women and a long period of chaos and depression.Germany had to

•  accept total blame for starting the war.
• were banned from joining the new League of Nations,
• give up land, including Alsace-Lorraine,
• limit their army to no more than 100,000 men and from having any submarines or an air force.

People in Germany were very angry. In addition to the above, Germans were forced to pay 132 billion gold marks as war reparations. This caused Germany to become very poor and the German citizens lost a lot of land, capital, money, jobs, etc.

Not to mention there were like 9 or 11 factions vying for power...
 

Skans » 17 Nov 2023, 9:07 am » wrote: ↑

17 Nov 2023, 9:07 am

A few things about Hitler I will mention.  Generally speaking Hitler during his formative years was a day-dreamer, a wannabe artist who was rejected because he wasn't very talented.  He was also inspired by Nordic mythology - almost in a comic-book sense.  During that time, while he was trying to be an artist he even worked for a Jew, and as far as anyone can tell, they got along.

However, I suspect (but do not have much evidence of this) that Vienna's art scene was lousy with Jews, Jews who were intellectuals and who were more into modern art at the time.  He was rejected by these artists, 1) because Hitler did not care for modern art, 2) he was not much of an intellectual and 3) because truthfully, Hitler's paintings were mostly landscapes which were "flat", lacked any depth or interesting perspective (example below).  Honestly, even Bob Ross had quite a bit more talent for painting than poor Adolf.

This F-ed with Adolf's head.  He was out of his comfort zone living and working in Vienna and he was being ridiculed and rejected by those (probably Jews) which shot right to the core of his ego. 

Then there is Hitler's military service during WWI, and Hitler shined in his service in the German military. There he learned to despise Bolshevism, which had some connections with Jewish intellectuals.  Of course, Germany was thoroughly defeated in this war fell into years of despair. This is likely what began to solidify Hitler's hate of the Jews. 

That is my explanation for the "why".

Is that one of Hitler's paintings? I admit that I am no art expert, but it is kind of gay. 

You definitely could be right. There is no real consensus as to where his hatred came from, but I am sure is from a lot of different things. 

I have seen no evidence that Hitler hated jews.  He doesn't say it himself.  I have seen no one else quote Hitler, either personally or professionally.

All this reminds me of contemporary "hate" speech and "hate" crimes.  There is no instrument that measures hate, so you mostly can't "prove" it in court.  

How does someone know a person hates others?  Maybe they just intensely dislike them.  Maybe they are frustrated, jealous, etc.

Anyway, this whole "hate" thing is irrelevant.  There were very logical reasons to oppose Bolshevism and take back one's country.  The "hate" tangent is a side show circus for gullible listeners.