Liberal Forum

You can't actually bust that ******, doesn't mean it's not fun or worthwhile to try.

Sumela » 06 Dec 2023, 3:23 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Dec 2023, 3:23 pm

I won the wishbone fight on Thanksgiving.  

I wished that Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin was my President.

The stop whining already, renounce your citizenship of the United States and become a subject of the Russian empire. 

Otherwise, all you are is cowardly hot noise.

Well whatcha gonna do?

Kisses » 09 Dec 2023, 12:00 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Dec 2023, 12:00 pm

 let me make sure I'm understanding you correctly…

You blame Israel for the creation of Hamas AND believe it did so so they could attack Israel and then Israel could get all of Palestine?

notice the date---- and israel knew full well that hamas would attack because of evictions-- yet israel kept doing it anyway.

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases ... m-families



GENEVA (12 July 2023) – The forced eviction and displacement of the Ghaith-Sub Laban family and many other Palestinian families in east Jerusalem may amount to a war crime of forcible transfer and must be immediately reversed, UN experts* said today.“It is deeply shocking and heartbreaking to see Nora Ghaith and Mustafa Sub Laban, an older Palestinian couple, evicted from their family home where they have lived all their lives and raised their children,” the UN experts said.   Israeli police forcibly evicted Nora Ghaith and Mustafa Sub Laban from their home in the Old City of Jerusalem in the early hours of 11 July. The Ghaith-Sub Laban family, who had a protected lease on the house since 1953, reportedly faced constant harassment and lawsuits from Israeli authorities and settlers seeking to seize their home under an inherently discriminatory law that applies to Palestinians in east Jerusalem.“As we have repeatedly said, forced evictions of Palestinians in east Jerusalem are part of Israel’s apartheid machinery at work, designed to consolidate Jewish ownership of Jerusalem and racially dominate the city’s population,” the experts said.They stressed that the case of the Ghaith Sub-Laban family is not unique but is representative of a widespread and systematic practice by Israel to forcibly evict and displace Palestinians from east Jerusalem and “de-palestinize” the city. 
 

Kisses » 09 Dec 2023, 12:00 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Dec 2023, 12:00 pm

 let me make sure I'm understanding you correctly…

You blame Israel for the creation of Hamas AND believe it did so so they could attack Israel and then Israel could get all of Palestine?

 No, I don't blame Israel for the creation of Hamas .....I blame the extreme right-wing Zionist partisan political parties like Likud and Politicians like Netanayhu  that have ruled Israel for decades now for creating,  financing, nurturing and helping to install Hamas as a form of controlled opposition in an effort to deligitimize The PLO as well as fracture Palestinian solidarity which it did do.
And they knew Hamas was an extemist Islamic group whose mandate has always been the destruction of Israel.....which makes it all the more heinously criminal for doing so.
 Just as the goals of Zionism and  the extreme Zionist  right-wing in Israel hasn't changed in over 90 years which is the complete annexation of all Palestine for the Zionist state.
and I have never denied that Hamas brutally attacked Israel and took hostages ...because they did .
I question how many Israelis were actually killed by Hamas and not by friendly fire by an overzealous IDF that could not distinguish between Hamas and Israelis....
I question How Hamas knew where the very secretive defensive observation posts were and how they got blueprints of the outposts and intel on how to breach them.
I question why Netanyahu's extreme Zionist partisan government did not heed the warnings of allies regarding an impending and  imminent attack and why the IDF ignored the warnings by it's own soldiers of what they observed happening at the border days prior.

2 things of great importance were happening simultaneously before this attack ......that would have affected both Hamas and Netanayhu and the decades old extreme Zionist right-wing hold on power in Israel.
1.) The Saudis were about to normalize relations with Israel.....
and ..
2.) Israelis for months were revolting enmasse in numbers never seen before against Netanayhu and the extreme Zionist partisan right-wing government for it's attempt to weaponize the Israeli Judicial system which would have created what many Israelis considered a Judicially backed 
Zionist right-wing dictatorship.
and for months during those protests ...the protesters were calling for normalization with the Palestinians whose calls for normalization were growing each and every day before the Hamas attack.

Now what you have to ask yourself is would the Netanayhu extreme Zionist partisan government and Hamas which is it's controlled opposition collude for their shared self serving interests?















 

Majik » 09 Dec 2023, 2:02 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Dec 2023, 2:02 pm

 No, I don't blame Israel for the creation of Hamas .....I blame the extreme right-wing Zionist partisan political parties like Likud and Politicians like Netanayhu  that have ruled Israel for decades now for creating,  financing, nurturing and helping to install Hamas as a form of controlled opposition in an effort to deligitimize The PLO as well as fracture Palestinian solidarity which it did do.
And they knew Hamas was an extemist Islamic group whose mandate has always been the destruction of Israel.....which makes it all the more heinously criminal for doing so.
 Just as the goals of Zionism and  the extreme Zionist  right-wing in Israel hasn't changed in over 90 years which is the complete annexation of all Palestine for the Zionist state.
and I have never denied that Hamas brutally attacked Israel and took hostages ...because they did .
I question how many Israelis were actually killed by Hamas and not by friendly fire by an overzealous IDF that could not distinguish between Hamas and Israelis....
I question How Hamas knew where the very secretive defensive observation posts were and how they got blueprints of the outposts and intel on how to breach them.
I question why Netanyahu's extreme Zionist partisan government did not heed the warnings of allies regarding an impending and  imminent attack and why the IDF ignored the warnings by it's own soldiers of what they observed happening at the border days prior.

2 things of great importance were happening simultaneously before this attack ......that would have affected both Hamas and Netanayhu and the decades old extreme Zionist right-wing hold on power in Israel.
1.) The Saudis were about to normalize relations with Israel.....
and ..
2.) Israelis for months were revolting enmasse in numbers never seen before against Netanayhu and the extreme Zionist partisan right-wing government for it's attempt to weaponize the Israeli Judicial system which would have created what many Israelis considered a Judicially backed 
Zionist right-wing dictatorship.
and for months during those protests ...the protesters were calling for normalization with the Palestinians whose calls for normalization were growing each and every day before the Hamas attack.

Now what you have to ask yourself is would the Netanayhu extreme Zionist partisan government and Hamas which is its important post controlled opposition collude for their shared self serving interests?

Thank you for this important laser focused post. From what I’ve been reading, you are dead right about the purpose of Netanyahu’s nurturing of (Iran-backed) Hamas all along……We must all understand your questions as well.

Great post. You nail the crux of the matter.
 
 

Majik » 09 Dec 2023, 2:02 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Dec 2023, 2:02 pm

 No, I don't blame Israel for the creation of Hamas .....I blame the extreme right-wing Zionist partisan political parties like Likud and Politicians like Netanayhu  that have ruled Israel for decades now for creating,  financing, nurturing and helping to install Hamas as a form of controlled opposition in an effort to deligitimize The PLO as well as fracture Palestinian solidarity which it did do.
And they knew Hamas was an extemist Islamic group whose mandate has always been the destruction of Israel.....which makes it all the more heinously criminal for doing so.
 Just as the goals of Zionism and  the extreme Zionist  right-wing in Israel hasn't changed in over 90 years which is the complete annexation of all Palestine for the Zionist state.
and I have never denied that Hamas brutally attacked Israel and took hostages ...because they did .
I question how many Israelis were actually killed by Hamas and not by friendly fire by an overzealous IDF that could not distinguish between Hamas and Israelis....
I question How Hamas knew where the very secretive defensive observation posts were and how they got blueprints of the outposts and intel on how to breach them.
I question why Netanyahu's extreme Zionist partisan government did not heed the warnings of allies regarding an impending and  imminent attack and why the IDF ignored the warnings by it's own soldiers of what they observed happening at the border days prior.

2 things of great importance were happening simultaneously before this attack ......that would have affected both Hamas and Netanayhu and the decades old extreme Zionist right-wing hold on power in Israel.
1.) The Saudis were about to normalize relations with Israel.....
and ..
2.) Israelis for months were revolting enmasse in numbers never seen before against Netanayhu and the extreme Zionist partisan right-wing government for it's attempt to weaponize the Israeli Judicial system which would have created what many Israelis considered a Judicially backed 
Zionist right-wing dictatorship.
and for months during those protests ...the protesters were calling for normalization with the Palestinians whose calls for normalization were growing each and every day before the Hamas attack.

Now what you have to ask yourself is would the Netanayhu extreme Zionist partisan government and Hamas which is it's controlled opposition collude for their shared self serving interests?

israel took advantage of hamas' tendency to strike when pissed off, especially over evictions. israel knew that hamas would strike over forced evictions and this would give isael the excuse to fight back.

 \israel owes the victims of 10/7 for angering hamas  and causing the attack.
 

jerrab » 09 Dec 2023, 2:35 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Dec 2023, 2:35 pm

israel took advantage of hamas' tendency to strike when pissed off, especially over evictions. israel knew that hamas would strike over forced evictions and this would give isael the excuse to fight back.

 \israel owes the victims of 10/7 for angering hamas  and causing the attack.

That may be true but you seem to forget that Hamas’ charter specifically calls to wipe Israel off the map. Hamas’ purpose is to live angry and always plan for and execute attacks. It’s a forever thing.

Tempest62 » 09 Dec 2023, 2:38 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Dec 2023, 2:38 pm

That may be true but you seem to forget that Hamas’ charter specifically calls to wipe Israel off the map. Hamas’ purpose is to live angry and always plan for and execute attacks. It’s a forever thing.

and how would israel get rid of hamas?

by angering hamas and attacking israel making israel the victim with every right to defend itself?

also it looks like israel is the one that wanted to get rid of the people in gaza and evict them from gaza.

israel took advantage of hamas volatile nature.

and biden is the most pro zion president ever and let israel do what ever it wanted in gaza -evictions-  so biden owes the victims of 10/7 and everyone killed or or forced out since without homes, without shelter, and it is cold there, it snowed in cairo yesterday.
 

have you heard the latest? biden will deliver 350 israel troops to usa. the israel troops will kidnap all usa citizens who support Hamas. ship them to israel prisons. world gone crazy.

jerrab » 09 Dec 2023, 2:49 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Dec 2023, 2:49 pm

and how would israel get rid of hamas?

by angering hamas and attacking israel making israel the victim with every right to defend itself?

also it looks like israel is the one that wanted to get rid of the people in gaza and evict them from gaza.

israel took advantage of hamas volatile nature.

and biden is the most pro zion president ever and let israel do what ever it wanted in gaza -evictions-  so biden owes the victims of 10/7 and everyone killed or or forced out since without homes, without shelter, and it is cold there, it snowed in cairo yesterday.

Iran will make sure Hamas never ends…and s long as a Zionist power runs Israel they won’t either.

It’s very difficult to kill an ideology.

netantahu’s govt owes the victims of 10/7.
 

jerrab » 09 Dec 2023, 2:49 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Dec 2023, 2:49 pm

and how would israel get rid of hamas?

by angering hamas and attacking israel making israel the victim with every right to defend itself?

also it looks like israel is the one that wanted to get rid of the people in gaza and evict them from gaza.

israel took advantage of hamas volatile nature.

and biden is the most pro zion president ever and let israel do what ever it wanted in gaza -evictions-  so biden owes the victims of 10/7 and everyone killed or or forced out since without homes, without shelter, and it is cold there, it snowed in cairo yesterday.

hamas must all die
 

FJB » 09 Dec 2023, 3:13 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Dec 2023, 3:13 pm

hamas must all die

Won’t happen. Replacement troops are forever.
 

Tempest62 » 09 Dec 2023, 2:58 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Dec 2023, 2:58 pm

Iran will make sure Hamas never ends…and s long as a Zionist power runs Israel they won’t either.

It’s very difficult to kill an ideology.

netantahu’s govt owes the victims of 10/7.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/ ... gregation/

An Israeli court has given the go-ahead for the forced eviction of 500 Palestinian Bedouins in the Negev/Naqab region, highlighting the deep discrimination that Palestinian citizens of Israel face under apartheid, Amnesty International said today. In a judgment issued on 27 July, the Beer’sheva Magistrate’s Court said residents of the village of Ras Jrabah must leave their homes, and vacate the lands where their families have lived for decades, by March 2024. They must also pay a fine of 117,000 NIS (approximately 31,700 USD) to cover legal expenses.  The forced evictions are part of the Israeli authorities’ plans to build a new neighbourhood for the city of Dimona, whose inhabitants are mostly Jewish Israelis. Ras Jrabah’s residents will be relocated to an impoverished and segregated Bedouin town nearby.

“The clock is ticking for Ras Jrabah’s residents, who have just months to pack up their lives and leave the only homes they have ever known.Heba Morayef, Regional Director for the Middle East and North Africa

Forcible eviction of 500 Palestinians given the green light[img]data:image/png;base64,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[/img]
Amnesty International
https://www.amnesty.org › Latest › News › 2023 › 07
Jul 28, 2023 — An Israeli court ruled that residents of Ras Jrabah in the Negev/Naqab have until next March to leave the land they've lived on for decade
 

jerrab » 09 Dec 2023, 3:33 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Dec 2023, 3:33 pm

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/ ... gregation/

An Israeli court has given the go-ahead for the forced eviction of 500 Palestinian Bedouins in the Negev/Naqab region, highlighting the deep discrimination that Palestinian citizens of Israel face under apartheid, Amnesty International said today. In a judgment issued on 27 July, the Beer’sheva Magistrate’s Court said residents of the village of Ras Jrabah must leave their homes, and vacate the lands where their families have lived for decades, by March 2024. They must also pay a fine of 117,000 NIS (approximately 31,700 USD) to cover legal expenses.  The forced evictions are part of the Israeli authorities’ plans to build a new neighbourhood for the city of Dimona, whose inhabitants are mostly Jewish Israelis. Ras Jrabah’s residents will be relocated to an impoverished and segregated Bedouin town nearby.

Hmmmm. Amnesty International leaves much to be desired in its one way reporting, overpaid execs and rampant racism. 

Do you have a better source that isn’t so blatantly progressive?

Tempest62 » 09 Dec 2023, 2:38 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Dec 2023, 2:38 pm

That may be true but you seem to forget that Hamas’ charter specifically calls to wipe Israel off the map. Hamas’ purpose is to live angry and always plan for and execute attacks. It’s a forever thing.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Why is Hamas attacking Israel?
Hamas has also stated that its attack was in response to the blockade of the Gaza Strip, the expansion of illegal Israeli settlements, rising Israeli settler violence and recent escalations at Al-Aqsa.

jerrab » 09 Dec 2023, 3:38 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Dec 2023, 3:38 pm

------------------------------------------------------------------

Why is Hamas attacking Israel?
Hamas has also stated that its attack was in response to the blockade of the Gaza Strip, the expansion of illegal Israeli settlements, rising Israeli settler violence and recent escalations at Al-Aqsa.

I understand their grievances but their real purpose is to wipe Israel off the map. Do you understand this?
 

jerrab » 09 Dec 2023, 2:35 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Dec 2023, 2:35 pm

israel took advantage of hamas' tendency to strike when pissed off, especially over evictions. israel knew that hamas would strike over forced evictions and this would give isael the excuse to fight back.

 \israel owes the victims of 10/7 for angering hamas  and causing the attack.

Both Hamas and Netanyahu and the Zionists  lose everything if a one state or two state solution were ever to get implimented.
Netanayhu and the extreme Zionist partisan right-wing  were **** their pants seeing Israel call for their removal and normalization with the Palestinians.....before the attack.
While Hamas has the same ambition as Netanyahu and the Zionists even though they are diametrically opposed ....
Which is All of Palestine.
Neither one wants Peace or State Solutions because of those ambitions ....
regardless of how Palestinians or Israelis feel about and want peace and closure.
I strongly believe that Netanayhu allowed Hamas to attack and kill and kidnap Israelis to squash an Israeli uprising that not only threatened the Zionist right-wing's hold on power but also their ambitions of all of Palestine becoming a Zionist state because of the changed and softened attitudes of Israeli's  towards Palestinians.
and I also believe that Hamas did not realize that Netanayhu would go for broke in retaliation by using this attack to level Gaza, destroy it's infrastructure and indiscrimantly kill this many Palestinians .....and will ultimately reclaim the Gaza Strip because there is now nobody who can stop Netanayhu whIle America protects Netanayhu diplomatically , militarily, economically and through the propagation of a  global propaganda campaign trying desparately to sell Israeli crimes against Palestinians as Israel's right to protect itself at any cost even genocide.
America and Britain  made a huge  mistake yesterday by voting against and abstaining from the UN vote for a forced ceasefire ......






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Tempest62 » 09 Dec 2023, 3:36 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Dec 2023, 3:36 pm

Hmmmm. Amnesty International leaves much to be desired in its one way reporting, overpaid execs and rampant racism. 

Do you have a better source that isn’t so blatantly progressive?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-mi ... 4204f3b849

Israel-Hamas war
Shohei Ohtani Dodgers
Eagles’ Dom DiSandro
Streaming now
Asteroid eclipse coming soonIsrael evicts Palestinians from disputed Jerusalem property





4 of 4 | A book shelf is seen at the ruins of a Palestinian house demolished by the Jerusalem municipality in the flashpoint east Jerusalem neighborhood of Sheikh Jarrah, Wednesday, Jan. 19, 2022. Israeli police on Wednesday evicted Palestinian residents from the disputed property and demolished the building, days after a tense standoff. The family says it has lived on the property since before 1967, while the city says they are squatters. It plans to build a special needs school at the site and says it will compensate the property’s owners. (AP Photo/Mahmoud Illean)
Read More

BY ILAN BEN ZION
Published 12:32 PM CST, January 19, 2022
ShareJERUSALEM (AP) — Israeli police on Wednesday evicted Palestinians from a disputed property in a flashpoint Jerusalem neighborhood and demolished the building, leaving some 15 people homeless on a cold, rainy day in the wake of a tense standoff earlier this week.The predawn demolition took place in Sheikh Jarrah, an east Jerusalem neighborhood where attempts by Jewish settlers to evict longtime Palestinian residents have sparked protests that last year helped lead to an 11-day war between Israel and Gaza militants.The latest demolition is a separate case, with the city saying it is removing the family to make way for what will be a large school for Palestinian children with special needs. But it also has set off local protests and drawn international criticism, with the Palestinians complaining about the issue Wednesday to the United Nations Security Council.Early this week, residents of the building held a tense standoff with police who came to evict them. They climbed on the roof of the home and threatened to set gas tanks on fire. Eventually police backed off, after demolishing a nearby plant nursery owned by the family.Police moved in under the cover of darkness early Wednesday, removing the family and demolishing the home. Police said 18 people were arrested for alleged public disorder. Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas condemned the eviction, calling it a “war crime,” and saying that Israel bears full responsibility for its “serious repercussions.” In a statement from his office, he called on the United States to “intervene immediately to halt the continuing Israeli crimes against our people in Jerusalem.”A lawyer for the Salhiya family said they purchased the property before 1967, when Israel captured east Jerusalem, and have been living there for over 70 years. Ahmed Kadamani says four me

 
 

Majik » 09 Dec 2023, 3:47 pm » wrote: ↑

09 Dec 2023, 3:47 pm

Both Hamas and Netanyahu and the Zionists  lose everything if a one state or two state solution were ever to get implimented.
Netanayhu and the extreme Zionist partisan right-wing  were **** their pants seeing Israel call for their removal and normalization with the Palestinians.....before the attack.
While Hamas has the same ambition as Netanyahu and the Zionists even though they are diametrically opposed ....
Which is All of Palestine.
Neither one wants Peace or State Solutions because of those ambitions ....
regardless of how Palestinians or Israelis feel about and want peace and closure.
I strongly believe that Netanayhu allowed Hamas to attack and kill and kidnap Israelis to squash an Israeli uprising that not only threatened the Zionist right-wing's hold on power but also their ambitions of all of Palestine becoming a Zionist state because of the changed and softened attitudes of Israeli's  towards Palestinians.
and I also believe that Hamas did not realize that Netanayhu would go for broke in retaliation by using this attack to level Gaza, destroy it's infrastructure and indiscrimantly kill this many Palestinians .....and will ultimately reclaim the Gaza Strip because there is now nobody who can stop Netanayhu whIle America protects Netanayhu diplomatically , militarily, economically and through the propagation of a  global propaganda campaign trying desparately to sell Israeli crimes against Palestinians as Israel's right to protect itself at any cost even genocide.
America and Britain  made a huge  mistake yesterday by voting against and abstaining from the UN vote for a forced ceasefire ......

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I have to say I do think I agree! Great post. I consider you somewhat of an authority on these issues.

What are your thoughts on the central theme of Hamas’ charter?