Liberal Forum

Israelis don't agree on much, especially lately, but polling shows they mostly agree that Prime Minister Benjamin "Bibi" Netanyahu is to blame for leaving Israel unprepared for Hamas's onslaught on October 7.The accusations aimed at Netanyahu go beyond merely failing to foresee or prevent the Hamas attack of October 7, however. Many accuse him of deliberately empowering the group for decades as part of a strategy to sabotage a two-state solution based on the principle of land for peace."There's been a lot of criticism of Netanyahu in Israel for instating a policy for many years of strengthening Hamas and keeping Gaza on the brink while weakening the Palestinian Authority," said Mairav Zonszein of the International Crisis Group. "And we've seen that happening very clearly on the ground.""(Hamas and Netanyahu) are mutually reinforcing, in the sense that they provide each other with a way to continue to use force and rejectionism as opposed to making sacrifices and compromises in order to reach some kind of resolution," Zonszein told CBC News from Tel Aviv.'Keep Hamas alive and kicking'This symbiotic relationship between Netanyahu and Hamas has been remarked on for years, by both friends and enemies, hawks and doves.Yuval Diskin, former head of Israel's Shin Bet security service, told the daily newspaper Yedioth Ahronoth in 2013 that "if we look at it over the years, one of the main people contributing to Hamas's strengthening has been Bibi Netanyahu, since his first term as prime minister."In August 2019, former prime minister Ehud Barak told Israeli Army Radio that Netanyahu's "strategy is to keep Hamas alive and kicking … even at the price of abandoning the citizens [of the south] … in order to weaken the Palestinian Authority in Ramallah."The logic underlying this strategy, Barak said, is that "it's easier with Hamas to explain to Israelis that there is no one to sit with and no one to talk to."Netanyahu's critics say that Hamas — with its bloodthirsty rhetoric, open antisemitism and stated intention never to share the land — played into the hands of a prime minister who also wanted to be able to tell western governments that Israel has "no partner" for peace.Supporting Hamas rule in Gaza, those critics say, allowed Netanyahu to confine the Palestinian Authority to the West Bank and weaken it, dividing the Palestinians into two mutually antagonistic blocs.Hamas puts its finger on the scales Netanyahu first came to power in the 1996 election that followed the assassination of Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin by an Israeli extremist opposed to the Oslo Accords.Early polls showed Rabin's successor Shimon Peres comfortably ahead.Determined to sabotage Oslo, Hamas embarked on a ruthless suicide bombing campaign that helped Netanyahu pull ahead of Peres and win the election on May 29, 1996.Today, some of the same extremists who called for Rabin's death hold power in Netanyahu's government.

 Continued....

Just two weeks before Rabin's assassination, a young settler extremist posed for the cameras with a Cadillac hood ornament he said he had stolen from Rabin's car. "Just like we got to this emblem," he said, "we could get to Rabin."Today, that young man, Itamar Ben Gvir, is 45 years old and has eight Israeli criminal convictions — including convictions for supporting a terrorist organization and incitement to racism. Once he was rejected by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) for his extremist views. Now, Israel's police must answer to him as Benjamin Netanyahu's minister of national security.

 Many analysts believe one of the main goals of the Hamas attack on Israel was to derail the normalization talks underway between Israel and Saudi Arabia, which would have left the Palestinians on the sidelines.In a remarkable speech last week in Houston, Saudi Prince Turki bin Faisal unleashed on Hamas for its atrocities and obstructionism. But he also had words for Israel."I condemn Hamas for further undermining the Palestinian Authority, as Israel has been doing," said the former Saudi intelligence chief and ambassador to the U.S. "I condemn Hamas for sabotaging the attempt of Saudi Arabia to reach a peaceful resolution to the plight of the Palestinian people."I condemn Israel for funnelling Qatari money to Hamas."Prince Turki was referring to money that the Qatar royal family has been sending to Gaza for years, to the tune of about a billion U.S. dollars.'Hamas is an asset'Netanyahu's hawkish defence minister Avigdor Liberman was the first to report in 2020 that Bibi had dispatched Mossad chief Yossi Cohen and the IDF's officer in charge of Gaza, Herzi Halevi, to Doha to "beg" the Qataris to continue to send money to Hamas."Both Egypt and Qatar are angry with Hamas and planned to cut ties with them. Suddenly Netanyahu appears as the defender of Hamas," the right-wing leader complained.A year later, Netanyahu was further embarrassed when photos of suitcases full of cash going to Hamas became public. Liberman finally resigned in protest over Netanyahu's Hamas policy which, he said, marked "the first time Israel is funding terrorism against itself."Netanyahu's education minister Naftali Bennett also denounced the payments, and also quit.

 Continued...
 

Live and learn

The Palestinian Authority's Ahmed Majdalani accused the Qatari envoy of carrying money to Hamas "like a gangster.""The PLO did not agree to the deal facilitating the money to Hamas that way," he said.After both Bennett and Liberman fell out with Netanyahu, he was defeated by a new government that stopped the cash deliveries to Hamas. But that government lasted just 18 months. Then Netanyahu returned to power with new, more extreme partners who backed the policy of fostering Hamas to prevent a negotiated peace settlement.Netanyahu's current finance minister, West Bank settler Belazel Smotrich, explained the approach to Israel's Knesset channel in 2015: "Hamas is an asset, and (Palestinian Authority leader) Abu Mazen (Mahmoud Abbas) is a burden."Paying Hamas to weaken OsloOn March 12, 2019, Netanyahu defended the Hamas payments to his Likud Party caucus on the grounds that they weakened the pro-Oslo Palestinian Authority, according to the Jerusalem Post:"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu defended Israel's regular allowing of Qatari funds to be transferred into Gaza, saying it is part of a broader strategy to keep Hamas and the Palestinian Authority separate, a source in Monday's Likud faction meeting said," the Post reported."The prime minister also said that 'whoever is against a Palestinian state should be for' transferring the funds to Gaza, because maintaining a separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza helps prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state."

 Netanyahu insisted that neither the money nor the construction material given to Hamas would be diverted to military purposes. But today, the IDF finds itself showing how Hamas has done exactly that — by diverting and converting civilian funds and materials to warlike purposes.The military tried to warn him at the time, former IDF chief of staff Gadi Eisenkot told the Ma'ariv newspaper. He said Netanyahu acted "in total opposition to the national assessment of the National Security Council, which determined that there was a need to disconnect from the Palestinians and establish two states.""We Gaza border residents are paying the price for the lack of policy and the arrogance in facing terror," said Labor Party Knesset member Haim Jelin in 2019.Those words would prove to be terribly prescient four years later.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/netany ... -1.7010035
 
@ROG62  
@R. Suave  
@nefarious101  
Etc...


 

BuckNaked » 28 Dec 2023, 10:18 am » wrote: ↑

28 Dec 2023, 10:18 am

Live and learn

**** that ....
How many more people need to die before you see that Netanyahu and their right wing extreme  Zionists are doing two things right now .....
Killing off all of their creation which is Hamas ....
and ethnically cleansing Palestine ....


 

Look at how the defenders of Israel flee like cockroaches when the light of Truth is shined upon them .....

 

Majik » 28 Dec 2023, 10:43 am » wrote: ↑

28 Dec 2023, 10:43 am

Look at how the defenders of Israel flee like cockroaches when the light of Truth is shined upon them .....

I’ve learned much from your posts. Thank you for opening my eyes. Your voice here is very important.

Majik » 28 Dec 2023, 10:43 am » wrote: ↑

28 Dec 2023, 10:43 am

Look at how the defenders of Israel flee like cockroaches when the light of Truth is shined upon them .....

Brother, neocons are soulless.  

They love the blood and the redmeat political stances.

Majik » 28 Dec 2023, 10:32 am » wrote: ↑

28 Dec 2023, 10:32 am

**** that ....
How many more people need to die before you see that Netanyahu and their right wing extreme  Zionists are doing two things right now .....
Killing off all of their creation which is Hamas ....
and ethnically cleansing Palestine ....

LOL - you said Netanyahu's Hamas "policies" are coming back to haunt him.  Errrrrrrrr, I don't think you have a good grip on what is going on right now. 

• Hamas attacks civilians
• Hamas takes hostages
• Hamas fires thousands of rockets at Israel, starting a war
• Israel fights back, systematically killing off all of Hamas.
• Hamas is down to a few worthless grunts
• Hamas has little to no access to weapons
• IDF is picking off Hamas fighters like scared drunk pigs in a muck wallow
• IDF has effectively cut off supply lines to Hamas
• Iran is freaking out
• Hezbollah is freaking out
• Houthies are freaking out.
• Hamas is paying protesters to scream "CEASE FIRE CEASE FIRE CEASE FIRE".
• IDF is just laughing at Hamas cry-babies.

 

Majik » 28 Dec 2023, 10:32 am » wrote: ↑

28 Dec 2023, 10:32 am

**** that ....
How many more people need to die before you see that Netanyahu and their right wing extreme  Zionists are doing two things right now .....
Killing off all of their creation which is Hamas ....
and ethnically cleansing Palestine ....

They were attacked WTF 

BuckNaked » 28 Dec 2023, 1:46 pm » wrote: ↑

28 Dec 2023, 1:46 pm

They were attacked WTF

Everything right wing is extreme radical. 

Bidencrimefamily » 28 Dec 2023, 1:47 pm » wrote: ↑

28 Dec 2023, 1:47 pm

Everything right wing is extreme radical.

Dumb.

Here's the deal.  I consider myself a centrist.  Some here would call me a right-wing fascist.  Others would label me a Neocon Liberal.  I see my own political views as perfectly normal, centered, balanced, logical and reasonable.  And, from my vantage point you would be a far-left Marxist.

Bibi is a right winger. He wanted the attack on Isreal so he can play war. Just like George Bush.

Majik » 28 Dec 2023, 10:32 am » wrote: ↑

28 Dec 2023, 10:32 am

**** that ....
How many more people need to die before you see that Netanyahu and their right wing extreme  Zionists are doing two things right now .....
Killing off all of their creation which is Hamas ....
and ethnically cleansing Palestine ....

hamas started it 

BuckNaked » 28 Dec 2023, 2:27 pm » wrote: ↑

28 Dec 2023, 2:27 pm

hamas started it

**** that...
there was no Hamas before Netanayhu created it ...
and if you really want to get technical ....
Theodore Herzl started it ...
 

Majik » 28 Dec 2023, 2:30 pm » wrote: ↑

28 Dec 2023, 2:30 pm

**** that...
there was no Hamas before Netanayhu created it ...
and if you really want to get technical ....
Theodore Herzl started it ...

Who?
 

Sumela » 28 Dec 2023, 1:17 pm » wrote: ↑

28 Dec 2023, 1:17 pm

Brother, neocons are soulless.  

They love the blood and the redmeat political stances.

I WILL HAUNT NETANYAHU, RATTLE MY CHAINS
AND MAKE WINDY HOWLING NOISES TO SCARE THE JEWS
BECAUSE I'M DEAD NOW AND THAT'S ALL I CAN DO.
Mohammed Deif

Majik » 28 Dec 2023, 10:17 am » wrote: ↑

28 Dec 2023, 10:17 am

Israelis don't agree on much, especially lately, but polling shows they mostly agree that Prime Minister Benjamin "Bibi" Netanyahu is to blame for leaving Israel unprepared for Hamas's onslaught on October 7.The accusations aimed at Netanyahu go beyond merely failing to foresee or prevent the Hamas attack of October 7, however. Many accuse him of deliberately empowering the group for decades as part of a strategy to sabotage a two-state solution based on the principle of land for peace."There's been a lot of criticism of Netanyahu in Israel for instating a policy for many years of strengthening Hamas and keeping Gaza on the brink while weakening the Palestinian Authority," said Mairav Zonszein of the International Crisis Group. "And we've seen that happening very clearly on the ground.""(Hamas and Netanyahu) are mutually reinforcing, in the sense that they provide each other with a way to continue to use force and rejectionism as opposed to making sacrifices and compromises in order to reach some kind of resolution," Zonszein told CBC News from Tel Aviv.'Keep Hamas alive and kicking'This symbiotic relationship between Netanyahu and Hamas has been remarked on for years, by both friends and enemies, hawks and doves.Yuval Diskin, former head of Israel's Shin Bet security service, told the daily newspaper Yedioth Ahronoth in 2013 that "if we look at it over the years, one of the main people contributing to Hamas's strengthening has been Bibi Netanyahu, since his first term as prime minister."In August 2019, former prime minister Ehud Barak told Israeli Army Radio that Netanyahu's "strategy is to keep Hamas alive and kicking … even at the price of abandoning the citizens [of the south] … in order to weaken the Palestinian Authority in Ramallah."The logic underlying this strategy, Barak said, is that "it's easier with Hamas to explain to Israelis that there is no one to sit with and no one to talk to."Netanyahu's critics say that Hamas — with its bloodthirsty rhetoric, open antisemitism and stated intention never to share the land — played into the hands of a prime minister who also wanted to be able to tell western governments that Israel has "no partner" for peace.Supporting Hamas rule in Gaza, those critics say, allowed Netanyahu to confine the Palestinian Authority to the West Bank and weaken it, dividing the Palestinians into two mutually antagonistic blocs.Hamas puts its finger on the scales Netanyahu first came to power in the 1996 election that followed the assassination of Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin by an Israeli extremist opposed to the Oslo Accords.Early polls showed Rabin's successor Shimon Peres comfortably ahead.Determined to sabotage Oslo, Hamas embarked on a ruthless suicide bombing campaign that helped Netanyahu pull ahead of Peres and win the election on May 29, 1996.Today, some of the same extremists who called for Rabin's death hold power in Netanyahu's government.

 Continued....

Right wingers want war. They don't care who gets hurt as long as they can consolidate power. That was the right wing jews goal. 

Bidencrimefamily » 28 Dec 2023, 4:20 pm » wrote: ↑

28 Dec 2023, 4:20 pm

Right wingers want war. They don't care who gets hurt as long as they can consolidate power. That was the right wing jews goal.

Lets play some chess, friend...

Bibi wanted to be dictator in Isreal and engineered what he thought would make that happen. That's the right wings goal right now.