Liberal Forum

jerrab » 05 Mar 2024, 8:05 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Mar 2024, 8:05 pm

it was because of of what paul wrote and for centuries christians treated  the jews badly.

Yeah well, Jews treat everyone badly, so they deserve it. 

Vegas » 05 Mar 2024, 8:09 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Mar 2024, 8:09 pm

Yeah well, Jews treat everyone badly, so they deserve it.

not in the 1800's.

it is so complicated. christians were wrong then and the jews are wrong now.

Cannonpointer » 05 Mar 2024, 8:06 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Mar 2024, 8:06 pm

So PAUL was the piece of ****?

Am I reading you right?
 
@golfboy  - was Paul the piece of ****, or was it the jews? Or is there some other explanation for being run out of A HUNDRED-PLUS countries that invited them in out of compassion and then ran them out after getting to know them?

  Thessalonians 2:14-16
New International Version14 For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews 15 who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to everyone 16 in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.[a]

jerrab » 05 Mar 2024, 8:14 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Mar 2024, 8:14 pm

not in the 1800's.

it is so complicated. christians were wrong then and the jews are wrong now.

Nah. They have always deserved it. Times change, society changes, governments rise and fall, etc...but the nature of who they are have always remained the same. A snake sheds its skin many times in its life, but it's still always the same snake. 

that was the basis of treating the jews like crap for centuries------------------ Thessalonians 2:14-16
New International Version14 For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews 15 who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to everyone 16 in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.[a]
 

jerrab » 05 Mar 2024, 8:18 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Mar 2024, 8:18 pm

  Thessalonians 2:14-16
New International Version14 For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews 15 who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to everyone 16 in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.[a]

Yeah yeah - you quoted Paul.

So, is HE the piece of **** in this deal, or are the jews the pieces of **** in this deal?

SOMEONE is a piece of **** in this deal.

Cannonpointer » 05 Mar 2024, 8:24 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Mar 2024, 8:24 pm

Yeah yeah - you quoted Paul.

So, is HE the piece of **** in this deal, or are the jews the pieces of **** in this deal?

SOMEONE is a piece of **** in this deal.

paul is saying the jews are pieces of ****- I say he is the piece of **** and the consequences have even lasted till today.
 

king james version Thessalonians 2:14-16 KJVFor ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judæa are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.
KJV: King James Version
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jerrab » 05 Mar 2024, 8:28 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Mar 2024, 8:28 pm

paul is saying the jews are pieces of ****- I say he is the piece of **** and the consequences have even lasted till today.
 

Clarity at last. Thank you.

@golfboy  ?

jerrab » 05 Mar 2024, 8:28 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Mar 2024, 8:28 pm

paul is saying the jews are pieces of ****- I say he is the piece of **** and the consequences have even lasted till today.

By the way, perhaps you will opine on this.

I have been informed that marryng a jewish gal is like being hit by a tornado.

It starts with a lot of sucking and blowing, and it ends with you losing your house.

Cannonpointer » 05 Mar 2024, 7:52 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Mar 2024, 7:52 pm

You need to be careful quoting genocide watch dot com and expecting OTHERS to respect it when you don't, dummy. 

That is EXCEEDINGLY hypocritical. You want to use them as experts - and you expect others to respect their findings - but only in the case of Yemen.

You ignore them and call them crazy in the case of the Palestinians. 

You have serious integrity issues, kid. You want your bread buttered on both sides while keeping clean hands.

         Just providing the same source many of those who are accusing Israel of Genocide use --- but then seem oblivious or don't mention some of the countries they source to bolster such accusations are themselves accused of Genocide by the same source...  They don't get to have it both ways... I never lent any credibility to Genocide Watch, as I said I go by the numbers and they do not support their idiotic assertions. .I simply pointed out the hypocrisy & absurdity of those who have....   I don't expect you to ever understand or acknowledge this fact, you are comfortable in your ignorance as usual...  You're hatred of Israel and the Jewish people would never allow it.. 
         

Kobia2 » 05 Mar 2024, 9:10 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Mar 2024, 9:10 pm

         Just providing the same source many of those who are accusing Israel of Genocide use --- but then seem oblivious or don't mention some of the countries they source to bolster such accusations are themselves accused of Genocide by the same source...  They don't get to have it both ways...

Neither can you.

The person you were quoting was not using Saudi Arabia's position statement to bolster genocide claims. They used it to point out how countries in the area and around the world were responding to the situation. You are the one stuck defending genocide against everyone who criticizes israel.

Kobia2 » 05 Mar 2024, 9:10 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Mar 2024, 9:10 pm

I never lent any credibility to Genocide Watch, as I said I go by the numbers and they do not support their idiotic assertions.

Your misuse of the numbers has been rebutted. Your, "Oh, yeah? If he tried to kill ya, then why ain't you dead?" defense is played out.

Kobia2 » 05 Mar 2024, 9:10 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Mar 2024, 9:10 pm

I simply pointed out the hypocrisy & absurdity of those who have....   I don't expect you to ever understand or acknowledge this fact, you are comfortable in your ignorance as usual...  You're hatred of Israel and the Jewish people would never allow it.. 
         

There you go again, hiding behind a weak screech of anti-semitism when your insipid logic is blasted by the facts.

There is not a human rights org ON THE PLANET that does not accuse israel of ethnic cleansing or genocide. But YOU - you're the REAL expert. The UN - they don't know. Amnesty International? IDIOTS. Human Rights Watch - buncha buffoons.

If ya want the REAL skinny, ya gotta go to Kobia2.
 

Cannonpointer » 05 Mar 2024, 7:43 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Mar 2024, 7:43 pm

I am deeply offended by the american-saudi war in yemen. 

I'm just shocked that you don't know how many saudi arabias there are.

The answer is one. There's just the one. But the fact that it's a **** country that does **** things has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

        ​​​​ No.... the answer is Saudi Arabia shouldn't be sourced as any sort of moral authority to suggest Israel or anyone else is committing Genocide or waging War on civilian populations.... Try scrolling some posts to understand the discussion and who said what  before jumping in and embarrassing yourself.... I wasn't the Member on this Thread who injected the Saudi OP piece into the topic.... I responded as I should have..  

Cannonpointer » 05 Mar 2024, 9:18 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Mar 2024, 9:18 pm

Neither can you.

The person you were quoting was not using Saudi Arabia's position statement to bolster genocide claims. They used it to point out how countries in the area and around the world were responding to the situation. You are the one stuck defending genocide against everyone who criticizes israel.

Your misuse of the numbers has been rebutted. Your, "Oh, yeah? If he tried to kill ya, then why ain't you dead?" defense is played out.

There you go again, hiding behind a weak screech of anti-semitism when your insipid logic is blasted by the facts.

There is not a human rights org ON THE PLANET that does not accuse israel of ethnic cleansing or genocide. But YOU - you're the REAL expert. The UN - they don't know. Amnesty International? IDIOTS. Human Rights Watch - buncha buffoons.

If ya want the REAL skinny, ya gotta go to Kobia2.

       The numbers have not been rebutted, another Lie.... Tell us how the Palestinians are the victims of Ethnic Cleansing, when they have had one of the largest population increases in their territories on the Planet..... Then you can explain how the idiot collective concluded how a net loss of 10,000 Gazans (if the Hamas  Ministry of Health's numbers are correct) out of a population of 2.1 Million equates to a Genocide..... Again, at that rate, what you and the rest of the flock believe is happening will take about 800 years... Just because you can reference a pool of Anti Israel, Jew-Hating fools that claim such, it doesn't nullify the numbers ... You really are little different than the useful idiot on the streets waving the Pali Flag.... No need to go by the hard facts --- just go along with the hysterical crowd... 

   

Kobia2 » 05 Mar 2024, 9:19 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Mar 2024, 9:19 pm

        ​​​​ No.... the answer is Saudi Arabia shouldn't be sourced as any sort of moral authority to suggest Israel or anyone else is committing Genocide or waging War on civilian populations....

Jerra B. wasn't doing that. Try scrolling some posts to understand the discussion and who said what  before jumping in and embarrassing yourself....

Cannonpointer » 05 Mar 2024, 7:35 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Mar 2024, 7:35 pm

You say that like it makes some kind of sense. Like it naturally follows. Help me make the connection. It sounds ***-pulled.

The numbers do not do themselves. Math is about inputs - and you have failed to math properly.

So have rats - and we're trying our best to kill them off, too. I don't think you understand how math REALLY works. If I fail to strike you out, it doesn't mean I didn't try. It means you hit the ball.

You can argue that Palestine's growing population is EVIDENCE against the genocide accusations that I have never made. But you are acting like it is proof positive. Again - you don't mathamatize properly A-tall.

I'll talk to the palis about trying harder with the neighbors, kid.

Hamas did the job that bibi put them in there to do. Putting people on reservations remains ethnic cleansing by definition, son.

And bibi put them in power. So here we are.

The blockades are intended to prevent trade and statehood - but but but you have a good excuse.


You googled up an agenda piece from racist zionists in order to call **** on the Israeli Newspaper of Record?

GOOD JOB, kid - good job!

          Very simple as I explained -----  the hard evidence shows the results for the Countries ( I used Jordan, Lebanon & Syria) who took in large numbers of Palis were disastrous... This makes it far more believable why other Arab Nations aren't looking to make the same mistake, rather than for you saying it's because helping them indirectly helps Israel clear the land of Palestinians..

           The Numbers are facts, and Data which are correct and indisputable.... Now your argument seems to be the IDF and Israelis are in fact operating with the objective of depopulating Gaza of all its Palestinians in an act of ethnic cleansing --- they are just doing a lousy job of it?... LOL... I put this analysis with that of the idiots who insist Israel is committing Genocide in Gaza, but they just have lousy aim..... If Israel wanted all those people gone, they could turn the Strip into glass in a week.

             Oh, and you might want to see if you can get your flock on the same page.... Half of you are claiming the Israelis are attempting to push the Palestinians out of Gaza --- while the other is insisting the Israelis are refusing to allow them to leave...   

           Haaretz --- the Paper of Record, is the same as the far-left, politically driven Paper of Record here -- the New York Times....  Wouldn't surprise me if you had a subscription to both...   
        

Kobia2 » 05 Mar 2024, 9:33 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Mar 2024, 9:33 pm

       The numbers have not been rebutted, another Lie.... Tell us how the Palestinians are the victims of Ethnic Cleansing, when they have had one of the largest population increases in their territories on the Planet.....

On an ever shrinking piece of land.

That is the definition of ethnic cleansing - rounding them up and moving them off the land you want.

Are you SURE you educated yourself on the difference between genocide and ethnic cleansing? Positive?

Kobia2 » 05 Mar 2024, 9:33 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Mar 2024, 9:33 pm

Then you can explain how the idiot collective concluded how a net loss of 10,000 Gazans (if the Hamas  Ministry of Health's numbers are correct) out of a population of 2.1 Million equates to a Genocide.....

I don't defend a charge of genocide - sorry if I was unclear.

Kobia2 » 05 Mar 2024, 9:33 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Mar 2024, 9:33 pm

Again, at that rate, what you and the rest of the flock believe is happening will take about 800 years... Just because you can reference a pool of Anti Israel, Jew-Hating fools that claim such, it doesn't nullify the numbers ...

You are in no position to cry about sources. You rely on sources you admit you distrust, and you distrust sources you pretend are reliable (Like when you blasted Haaretz for telling the truth and ran to an agenda source to rebut the truth).

Kobia2 » 05 Mar 2024, 9:33 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Mar 2024, 9:33 pm

You really are little different than the useful idiot on the streets waving the Pali Flag.... No need to go by the hard facts --- just go along with the hysterical crowd...

The hard fact is, you want us to believe YOU over the UN and over every human rights group on Planet Earth. You want us to believe YOU over the collective voice of the entire Orthodox Jewish religion, which opposes the IDF for its apartheid and ethnic cleansing. You want us to believe YOU (and your hastily googled agenda source) over Haaretz and the Jerusalem Times.

You CLEARLY cannot distinguish between ethnic cleansing and genocide, and you CLEARLY believe that people not dying in greater numbers than they are is not ethnic cleansing - and this, in the very FACE of the fact that you openly admit they are being squeezed onto those very reservations. You even repeatedly NAMED the reservations, while denying that ethnic cleansing is occurring. You CONTINUALLY conflate genocide - a NUMBERS game - with ethnic cleansing - a LAND game.

So, you obviously just do not understand the definition of ethnic cleansing - notwithstanding I have given you the definition. Just take a **** breath, buddy. The IDF is doing to the Palis what we did to the injuns: Putting them on reservations and pretending they are self-governing, while denying them the wherewithal to trade with other nations and establish themselves as a nation-state, and while de facto governing them from a distance.
 

Kobia2 » 05 Mar 2024, 9:53 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Mar 2024, 9:53 pm

          Very simple as I explained -----  the hard evidence shows the results for the Countries ( I used Jordan, Lebanon & Syria) who took in large numbers of Palis were disastrous... This makes it far more believable why other Arab Nations aren't looking to make the same mistake, rather than for you saying it's because helping them indirectly helps Israel clear the land of Palestinians..

No, no. Taking them would DIRECTLY help israel clear the land of palestinians. So they would never do that - even if the palis were excellent citizens, which I have clearly agreed with you they are not.

Kobia2 » 05 Mar 2024, 9:53 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Mar 2024, 9:53 pm

           The Numbers are facts, and Data which are correct and indisputable....

I have not once disputed your numbers. You just have no idea what they mean - and DON'T mean.

Kobia2 » 05 Mar 2024, 9:53 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Mar 2024, 9:53 pm

Now your argument seems to be the IDF and Israelis are in fact operating with the objective of depopulating Gaza of all its Palestinians in an act of ethnic cleansing --- they are just doing a lousy job of it?... LOL...

That's not the WORST straw man you've built.

And for that matter, now that you bring it up (I never did), it would not surprise me if in fact they DID require the Gazan cohort to resettle in west bank. They are, after all, creating a humanitarian crisis which would give the resettlement cover. They'd be doing it "for their own good."

Shoving them into Gaza in the first place is ethnic cleansing, kid - and apartheid. Pretending they are a sovereign and self-governing entity - as we do with redskins - is window dressing. They are israeli citizens in an open air prison. And since it is clear you do not understand this, people are NOT contradicting themselves when they claim that Israel is keeping them prisoners and want them gone from the land. They will happily let them out of prison to vacate that land - they can go anywhere they want. They just can't leave Gaza for any ISRAELI port of call - not even to go to West Bank. And they have no passports, which makes them both "displaced people" and "refugees," anywhere they go. Not many nations are looking to increase the number of displaced people and refugees on their soil. 

Kobia2 » 05 Mar 2024, 9:53 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Mar 2024, 9:53 pm

I put this analysis with that of the idiots who insist Israel is committing Genocide in Gaza, but they just have lousy aim..... If Israel wanted all those people gone, they could turn the Strip into glass in a week.

So Israel does NOT want them gone - that is your claim?

Final answer?

Kobia2 » 05 Mar 2024, 9:53 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Mar 2024, 9:53 pm

             Oh, and you might want to see if you can get your flock on the same page.... Half of you are claiming the Israelis are attempting to push the Palestinians out of Gaza --- while the other is insisting the Israelis are refusing to allow them to leave...

I don't have a flock, son. What I have is a dispassionate view - and you would be better for it if you could manage that.

Kobia2 » 05 Mar 2024, 9:53 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Mar 2024, 9:53 pm

           Haaretz --- the Paper of Record, is the same as the far-left, politically driven Paper of Record here -- the New York Times....  Wouldn't surprise me if you had a subscription to both... 

Okay, if you say so, son. Glad to have you one record that Haaretz is a far left paper.
 
 

Cannonpointer » 05 Mar 2024, 9:56 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Mar 2024, 9:56 pm

On an ever shrinking piece of land.

That is the definition of ethnic cleansing - rounding them up and moving them off the land you want.

Are you SURE you educated yourself on the difference between genocide and ethnic cleansing? Positive?

I don't defend a charge of genocide - sorry if I was unclear.

You are in no position to cry about sources. You rely on sources you admit you distrust, and you distrust sources you pretend are reliable (Like when you blasted Haaretz for telling the truth and ran to an agenda source to rebut the truth).

The hard fact is, you want us to believe YOU over the UN and over every human rights group on Planet Earth. You want us to believe YOU over the collective voice of the entire Orthodox Jewish religion, which opposes the IDF for its apartheid and ethnic cleansing. You want us to believe YOU (and your hastily googled agenda source) over Haaretz and the Jerusalem Times.

You CLEARLY cannot distinguish between ethnic cleansing and genocide, and you CLEARLY believe that people not dying in greater numbers than they are is not ethnic cleansing - and this, in the very FACE of the fact that you openly admit they are being squeezed onto those very reservations. You even repeatedly NAMED the reservations, while denying that ethnic cleansing is occurring. You CONTINUALLY conflate genocide - a NUMBERS game - with ethnic cleansing - a LAND game.

So, you obviously just do not understand the definition of ethnic cleansing - notwithstanding I have given you the definition. Just take a **** breath, buddy. The IDF is doing to the Palis what we did to the injuns: Putting them on reservations and pretending they are self-governing, while denying them the wherewithal to trade with other nations and establish themselves as a nation-state, and while de facto governing them from a distance.

      
          You might want to learn a little of what Ethnic Cleansing is yourself, as Israel removed the IDF, Settlements and disengaged from Gaza in 2005.... Tell us what Ethnic Cleansing had been going on there since that time? Tell us how their territory shrank --- let me help you there Yassir, it didn't.. 

          Oh,  I'm well aware of the difference, the problem is have the idiots on your side are claiming the Arabs are being pushed / displaced from the land (Ethnic Cleansing) --- the rest are insisting the population is being killed off of it (Genocide)...  

       The Israelis were more than fine to not be bothered with Gaza at all, and had no desire to administer the Strip.. If the goal was to take that land the IDF would have remained, the Gazans exiled, and Settlers would have taken over,,  But Hamas changed that on October 7th.... And as I said, you can bet Israel will trim a little more land from around the edges under the guise of providing a larger security buffer to separate the Gazans from Israelis.. 

    
 

Kobia2 » 05 Mar 2024, 10:13 pm » wrote: ↑

05 Mar 2024, 10:13 pm

      
          You might want to learn a little of what Ethnic Cleansing is yourself, as Israel removed the IDF, Settlements and disengaged from Gaza in 2005.... Tell us what Ethnic Cleansing had been going on there since that time? Tell us how their territory shrank --- let me help you there Yassir, it didn't.. 

          Oh,  I'm well aware of the difference, the problem is have the idiots on your side are claiming the Arabs are being pushed / displaced from the land (Ethnic Cleansing) --- the rest are insisting the population is being killed off of it (Genocide)...  

       The Israelis were more than fine to not be bothered with Gaza at all, and had no desire to administer the Strip.. If the goal was to take that land the IDF would have remained, the Gazans exiled, and Settlers would have taken over,,  But Hamas changed that on October 7th.... And as I said, you can bet Israel will trim a little more land from around the edges under the guise of providing a larger security buffer to separate the Gazans from Israelis.. 

    

At this point I think it is pretty clear you are too deeply invested emotionally to argue the facts rationally. 

Any rational person, having had it explained to them, would understand that the very act of confining them to Gaza and disallowing their travel within israel - even to west bank - is ethnic cleansing by definition. 

They are on reservations, son. Try to think. Try to apply definitions. You can do it. That land - the land that Israel holds in statehood - used to have palestinians all throughout. They were rounded up, and put on reservations. Take a breath, bro, You can do this math, if you settle your adrenal issues and look at it dispassionately, using the actual meanings of words. 

No matter WHAT you think MY motivations are, yours ought to be to form rational and cogent explanations of the world you inhabit. And when you use POPULATION in an equation that should be based on LAND, not population, you forsake any attempt at rational argument. 

When you can stop conflating genocide with ethnic cleansing, you will be on the road to arguing why you SUPPORT ethnic cleansing, rather than making the manifestly silly and universally rejected claim that ethnic cleansing and apartheid are not the official state policy of Israel. The 15% of Israel that are practicing Orthodox Jews agree with me - not you. Does that mean that you are an anti-semite?

Not by my math - but by yours... maybe so...
 

@Kobia2 , if you generate the integrity to support Israel without lying about what they are doing, I would be extremely interested to hear your arguments. 

That israel is engaged in ethnic cleansing is not even properly in dispute. You cannot round up an ethnicity and put them on reservations under lock and key, denying them passports and denying them freedom of travel, and then say you are not engaged in ethnic cleansing. That is just silly.

I am not trying to tell you what you should argue FOR - I'm just saying that your arguments should be based on facts. Whether you believe me or not, I would be quite interested to hear someone defend Israel's ethnic cleansing. I'm just not willing to hear someone lie about it without calling them on their lie. 

And I do not think you are intentionally lying. I think you have your definitions confused.