Liberal Forum

Beakman » 06 Jul 2024, 1:11 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Jul 2024, 1:11 pm

jerrab » 06 Jul 2024, 11:04 am » wrote: ↑

06 Jul 2024, 11:04 am

you said I attributed to you things that were not true.  

but I don't. I know what the different doctrines are purgatory, soul sleep, immediate entry into heaven or hell....etc.

the reason so many different theories in the christian religions is that they reject the truth which is explained by peter 2 /7-9

that if people do not come to repentance they get second chances, a person born in the 18th century say can still enter heaven if they repent in another life.  and so God keeps the world going to give all a chance to come to repentance for he wishes that none shall perish.  also Jesus said that john the baptist was elijah in a previous life.

 reincarnation is a doctrine that christans do not believe,

wrong...  
 

ROG62 » 06 Jul 2024, 6:30 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Jul 2024, 6:30 pm

wrong...

I  posted an exact quote from Christ.

ROG62 » 06 Jul 2024, 6:30 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Jul 2024, 6:30 pm

wrong...

matthew 11  11 Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been subjected to violence,[d] and violent people have been raiding it. 13 For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14 And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. 15 Whoever has ears, let them hear.

It no way implies that reincarnation exists...
 

ROG62 » 06 Jul 2024, 9:20 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Jul 2024, 9:20 pm

It no way implies that reincarnation exists...

matthew  17


9  And as they were coming down the mountain, Jesus commanded them, “Tell no one the vision, until the Son of Man is raised from the dead.” 10 And the disciples asked him, “Then why do the scribes say that first Elijah must come?” 11    He answered, “Elijah does come, and he will restore all things. 12 But I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not 
recognize him, but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of Man will certainly suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist.

jerra b » 06 Jul 2024, 8:33 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Jul 2024, 8:33 pm

I  posted an exact quote from Christ.

Exact quote? Or exact interpretation of the person being told what jesus was teaching. this saga was recorded when the New Testament was drafted 380 years after his death when the Roman Empire that executed him converted from political paganism to the new founded Christianity creating a new empire of eternal intellectual souls beyond the results of adapting as displaced as mortal soles evolving in plain sight.

the damned concept of born again after birth is the pledge of allegiance to ideas life isn't self evident. Freemasons existed during the building of the pyramids, on all continents, from within this species.

reasonable doubt was constructed by ancestors and sustained in each generation gap from within this species. Royal we, loyal us, obedient they, them, those people eliminating anyone that could explain the natural eternal separation of lifetimes native to this atmosphere any generation gap so far.

thespians educate reasonable doubt and freemasons build monuments to keep the ideas flowing one generation after another doing the same thing every rotation of the planet into current events going forward midnight to noon and repeated noon to midnight relative time logistics in control.

see my brain figured out what the original sin was. Honesty about living uniquely alive any rotation existing since day of birth until specific rotation arrives one dies today recorded on a flow chart of completed events and cycles of adapting as displaced.

jerrab » 06 Jul 2024, 10:40 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Jul 2024, 10:40 pm

matthew  17

9  And as they were coming down the mountain, Jesus commanded them, “Tell no one the vision, until the Son of Man is raised from the dead.” 10 And the disciples asked him, “Then why do the scribes say that first Elijah must come?” 11    He answered, “Elijah does come, and he will restore all things. 12 But I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not 
recognize him, but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of Man will certainly suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist.

The concept of reincarnation, in any of its forms, is completely without foundation in the Bible. The truth is that we die once and then face judgment (Hebrews 9:27). The Bible never even remotely suggests that people have a second chance at life or that they can come back as different people or animals. Reincarnation has been a popular belief for thousands of years, but it has never been accepted by Christians or followers of Judaism because it is contradictory to Scripture.

Several passages in Scripture refute the idea of reincarnation. Jesus told the criminal on the cross, “Today you will be with me in paradise” (Luke 23:43)—not “You will have another chance to live a life on earth.” Matthew 25:46 tells us that, upon death, believers go on to eternal life while unbelievers go on to eternal punishment. We are created as individuals, and our identity does not change after death (see Luke 9:30).

Some who believe in reincarnation point to Matthew 17:10–12 as biblical support for reincarnation. The disciples ask Jesus about the commonly taught prophecy that Elijah must come before the Messiah (verse 10; cf. Malachi 4:5), and Jesus responds by identifying the “Elijah” of the prophecy as John the Baptist (Matthew 17:11–13). However, Jesus was not teaching that John the Baptist was Elijah reincarnated. For one thing, Elijah did not die; he was taken to heaven in a chariot of fire (2 Kings 2:11), so the literal “coming” of Elijah would have been a descent from heaven, not a reincarnation. Jesus calls John the Baptist “Elijah” because he came in the “spirit and power of Elijah” (Luke 1:17), not because he was Elijah in a literal sense. Also, Elijah himself had just appeared, talking with Jesus (Matthew 17:3), which shows that Elijah had not changed his identity—he had not become John. Finally, the people had earlier asked John the Baptist if he was Elijah, and he said, “No, I am not” (John 1:21).

https://www.gotquestions.org/reincarnation.html

ROG62 » 07 Jul 2024, 5:36 am » wrote: ↑

07 Jul 2024, 5:36 am

Several passages in Scripture refute the idea of reincarnation. Jesus told the criminal on the cross, “Today you will be with me in paradise” (Luke 23:43)—not “You will have another chance to live a life on earth.” Matthew 25:46 tells us that, upon death, believers go on to eternal life while unbelievers go on to eternal punishment. We are created as individuals, and our identity does not change after death (see Luke 9:30).

Some who believe in reincarnation point to Matthew 17:10–12 as biblical support for reincarnation. The disciples ask Jesus about the commonly taught prophecy that Elijah must come before the Messiah (verse 10; cf. Malachi 4:5), and Jesus responds by identifying the “Elijah” of the prophecy as John the Baptist (Matthew 17:11–13). However, Jesus was not teaching that John the Baptist was Elijah reincarnated. For one thing, Elijah did not die; he was taken to heaven in a chariot of fire (2 Kings 2:11), so the literal “coming” of Elijah would have been a descent from heaven, not a reincarnation. Jesus calls John the Baptist “Elijah” because he came in the “spirit and power of Elijah” (Luke 1:17), not because he was Elijah in a literal sense. Also, Elijah himself had just appeared, talking with Jesus (Matthew 17:3), which shows that Elijah had not changed his identity—he had not become John. Finally, the people had earlier asked John the Baptist if he was Elijah, and he said, “No, I am not” (John 1:21).

https://www.gotquestions.org/reincarnation.html

matthew 2531 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,

ROG62 » 07 Jul 2024, 5:36 am » wrote: ↑

07 Jul 2024, 5:36 am

The concept of reincarnation, in any of its forms, is completely without foundation in the Bible. The truth is that we die once and then face judgment (Hebrews 9:27). The Bible never even remotely suggests that people have a second chance at life or that they can come back as different people or animals. Reincarnation has been a popular belief for thousands of years, but it has never been accepted by Christians or followers of Judaism because it is contradictory to Scripture.

Several passages in Scripture refute the idea of reincarnation. Jesus told the criminal on the cross, “Today you will be with me in paradise” (Luke 23:43)—not “You will have another chance to live a life on earth.” Matthew 25:46 tells us that, upon death, believers go on to eternal life while unbelievers go on to eternal punishment. We are created as individuals, and our identity does not change after death (see Luke 9:30).

Some who believe in reincarnation point to Matthew 17:10–12 as biblical support for reincarnation. The disciples ask Jesus about the commonly taught prophecy that Elijah must come before the Messiah (verse 10; cf. Malachi 4:5), and Jesus responds by identifying the “Elijah” of the prophecy as John the Baptist (Matthew 17:11–13). However, Jesus was not teaching that John the Baptist was Elijah reincarnated. For one thing, Elijah did not die; he was taken to heaven in a chariot of fire (2 Kings 2:11), so the literal “coming” of Elijah would have been a descent from heaven, not a reincarnation. Jesus calls John the Baptist “Elijah” because he came in the “spirit and power of Elijah” (Luke 1:17), not because he was Elijah in a literal sense. Also, Elijah himself had just appeared, talking with Jesus (Matthew 17:3), which shows that Elijah had not changed his identity—he had not become John. Finally, the people had earlier asked John the Baptist if he was Elijah, and he said, “No, I am not” (John 1:21).

https://www.gotquestions.org/reincarnation.html

where does matthew 25 46 mention upon death?

ROG62 » 07 Jul 2024, 5:36 am » wrote: ↑

07 Jul 2024, 5:36 am

The concept of reincarnation, in any of its forms, is completely without foundation in the Bible. The truth is that we die once and then face judgment (Hebrews 9:27). The Bible never even remotely suggests that people have a second chance at life or that they can come back as different people or animals. Reincarnation has been a popular belief for thousands of years, but it has never been accepted by Christians or followers of Judaism because it is contradictory to Scripture.

Several passages in Scripture refute the idea of reincarnation. Jesus told the criminal on the cross, “Today you will be with me in paradise” (Luke 23:43)—not “You will have another chance to live a life on earth.” Matthew 25:46 tells us that, upon death, believers go on to eternal life while unbelievers go on to eternal punishment. We are created as individuals, and our identity does not change after death (see Luke 9:30).

Some who believe in reincarnation point to Matthew 17:10–12 as biblical support for reincarnation. The disciples ask Jesus about the commonly taught prophecy that Elijah must come before the Messiah (verse 10; cf. Malachi 4:5), and Jesus responds by identifying the “Elijah” of the prophecy as John the Baptist (Matthew 17:11–13). However, Jesus was not teaching that John the Baptist was Elijah reincarnated. For one thing, Elijah did not die; he was taken to heaven in a chariot of fire (2 Kings 2:11), so the literal “coming” of Elijah would have been a descent from heaven, not a reincarnation. Jesus calls John the Baptist “Elijah” because he came in the “spirit and power of Elijah” (Luke 1:17), not because he was Elijah in a literal sense. Also, Elijah himself had just appeared, talking with Jesus (Matthew 17:3), which shows that Elijah had not changed his identity—he had not become John. Finally, the people had earlier asked John the Baptist if he was Elijah, and he said, “No, I am not” (John 1:21).

https://www.gotquestions.org/reincarnation.html

moses was still alive?

matthew 17 ------ After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.

ROG62 » 07 Jul 2024, 5:36 am » wrote: ↑

07 Jul 2024, 5:36 am

The concept of reincarnation, in any of its forms, is completely without foundation in the Bible. The truth is that we die once and then face judgment (Hebrews 9:27). The Bible never even remotely suggests that people have a second chance at life or that they can come back as different people or animals. Reincarnation has been a popular belief for thousands of years, but it has never been accepted by Christians or followers of Judaism because it is contradictory to Scripture.

Several passages in Scripture refute the idea of reincarnation. Jesus told the criminal on the cross, “Today you will be with me in paradise” (Luke 23:43)—not “You will have another chance to live a life on earth.” Matthew 25:46 tells us that, upon death, believers go on to eternal life while unbelievers go on to eternal punishment. We are created as individuals, and our identity does not change after death (see Luke 9:30).

Some who believe in reincarnation point to Matthew 17:10–12 as biblical support for reincarnation. The disciples ask Jesus about the commonly taught prophecy that Elijah must come before the Messiah (verse 10; cf. Malachi 4:5), and Jesus responds by identifying the “Elijah” of the prophecy as John the Baptist (Matthew 17:11–13). However, Jesus was not teaching that John the Baptist was Elijah reincarnated. For one thing, Elijah did not die; he was taken to heaven in a chariot of fire (2 Kings 2:11), so the literal “coming” of Elijah would have been a descent from heaven, not a reincarnation. Jesus calls John the Baptist “Elijah” because he came in the “spirit and power of Elijah” (Luke 1:17), not because he was Elijah in a literal sense. Also, Elijah himself had just appeared, talking with Jesus (Matthew 17:3), which shows that Elijah had not changed his identity—he had not become John. Finally, the people had earlier asked John the Baptist if he was Elijah, and he said, “No, I am not” (John 1:21).

https://www.gotquestions.org/reincarnation.html

matthew 17  9 As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, “Don’t tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead.”10 The disciples asked him, “Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?”11 Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. 12 But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.
 

ROG62 » 07 Jul 2024, 5:36 am » wrote: ↑

07 Jul 2024, 5:36 am

. Finally, the people had earlier asked John the Baptist if he was Elijah, and he said, “No, I am not” (John 1:21).


 

it means nothing. people do not have memories of past lives.

also it shows that reincarnation was not foreign to judaism--------
. Finally, the people had earlier asked John the Baptist if he was Elijah
 

jerrab » 07 Jul 2024, 10:26 am » wrote: ↑

07 Jul 2024, 10:26 am

it means nothing. people do not have memories of past lives.

also it shows that reincarnation was not foreign to judaism--------
. Finally, the people had earlier asked John the Baptist if he was Elijah

and he said "NO".    
 

jerrab » 07 Jul 2024, 9:49 am » wrote: ↑

07 Jul 2024, 9:49 am

moses was still alive?

matthew 17 ------ After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.

Yet all 3 were themselves...why is this so hard for you?

jerrab » 07 Jul 2024, 9:45 am » wrote: ↑

07 Jul 2024, 9:45 am

where does matthew 25 46 mention upon death?

Hebrews 9:27

And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,
 

ROG62 » 07 Jul 2024, 12:28 pm » wrote: ↑

07 Jul 2024, 12:28 pm

Hebrews 9:27

And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,

one line in hebrew  does not take away that Christ said that john the baptist was elijah in a past life and that john the baptist was not an angel but a man like every other man, born from a mother.

and no one really knows who wrote hebrews.  who ever it is does not have the authority to contradict Jesus.

-------------------------------------------------------------

The book of Hebrews quotes extensively from the Old Testament. Paul, as a Pharisee, would have been familiar with the Scripture in its original Hebrew language. In other letters, Paul either quotes the Masoretic Text (the original Hebrew) or paraphrases it. However, all of the quotes in this epistle are taken out of the Septuagint (the Greek Old Testament), which is inconsistent with Paul’s usage. Finally, Paul was an apostle who claimed to receive his revelations directly from the Lord Jesus (1 Corinthians 11:23; Galatians 1:12). The writer of Hebrews specifically says that he was taught by an apostle (Hebrews 2:3).

ROG62 » 07 Jul 2024, 12:23 pm » wrote: ↑

07 Jul 2024, 12:23 pm

Yet all 3 were themselves...why is this so hard for you?

john the baptist/elijah realized his past after he died

ROG62 » 07 Jul 2024, 12:28 pm » wrote: ↑

07 Jul 2024, 12:28 pm

Hebrews 9:27

And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,

part one of this post

part one---In the most prevalent interpretation, 'this generation' is understood as Jesus' contemporaries, implying that Jesus anticipated that his contemporaries would experience 'all these things' [πάνταταῦτα] to happen in their own lifetime.

part two-----  matthew  2431 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

jerra b » 07 Jul 2024, 10:26 am » wrote: ↑

07 Jul 2024, 10:26 am

it means nothing. people do not have memories of past lives.

also it shows that reincarnation was not foreign to judaism--------
. Finally, the people had earlier asked John the Baptist if he was Elijah
 

What does history teach each child after birth? the history of human behavior every generation gap cradle to grave never acknowledging life as individually here is eternally separated in actual chronological order of ancestors lived so far.

Reverse psychology comes from governing tomorrow midnight to noon while today is recorded for history noon to midnight.


Which arrives first, winter or summer solstice for seasonal shifts happening each day or revolution so far?

Which equinox happens first fall or spring?

Doesn't inception predate conceptions of a second or more generation gaps?