Liberal Forum

Sumela » 10 Jul 2024, 9:16 pm » wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2024, 9:16 pm

Sir, the complete collapse theory is unlikely. 
Look at all the countries that were once Empire - the Hegemon at the time.

Italy
Greece
England
Spain
Portugal

Their empires collapsed, but they remain functioning countries...although barely.

Murka's collapse will not be dystopian - we will simply become just another country.
And that is just fine with me.

The word "remain" is a bit tricky. England survived with its government intact, and I believe that Portugal soldiered on under the same civil administration. Spain's monarchy survived the spanish american war, which I believe we can agree was the end of spain's empire. But the italian government ended and was replaced by an american proxy at the end of empire. The greek empire ended when rome just kicked their door down and took their ****. 

I suspect america will fracture into several countries at the end of empire. 
 

ROG62 » 10 Jul 2024, 9:25 pm » wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2024, 9:25 pm

Agreed, however, if you're using someone else's money at zero cost, you're making money because those freed up funds are put to work elsewhere...

Just like having a credit card that's paid off every month... I routinely use 1-3k free money every month on my card...it like a personal bank...without the hassle...

See, this is more of that wheel within a wheel. You ARE winning the game - but it's a loser's game. Let me explain. 

The cost of goods and services you acquire in the manner described - the smartest and wisest manner available within the framework of choices available - has built in the cost of your "win." The credit card company is taking a cut of what you paid from your pocket - so you ARE paying for that money, albeit indirectly. The cut you pay goes from you to the vendor to the credit card company.

Now, you'd have paid the same cost if you had used your own cash - which is why doing it your way is the wisest of your available options. But you ARE on a wheel within a wheel, and you ARE being sneakily taxed - though not as hard-taxed as the poor **** who thinks it wise to pay cash for purchases. 
 

Cannonpointer » 10 Jul 2024, 8:14 pm » wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2024, 8:14 pm

We are not stuck with either having our money issuance stolen or being unable to issue credit. Not as a logical dichotomy, in any event.

I see guys like peepee acting with such confidence that they know something, but, never disclose how we can avert that slow and continuing trainwreck.
My first reaction is to, as always, conclude that nobody has the slightest clue what the "fix" is.
Eventually, he showed he really had nothing but rage against the machine. No help there.
Milton Friedman writes books. Paul Krugman wins the Nobel Bowling Trophy. Newsletters abound. Etc.
They're all peepees...

So **** it. Pretend my life will conclude on a happy note.  
That dovetails with being optimistic as the house of cards tumbles.

Cannonpointer » 10 Jul 2024, 8:11 pm » wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2024, 8:11 pm

Do you have a good vendor?

Made in murka only - no chinee ****, like trump's ties. 

I'm glad you like the line.

The "I believe in you, dickhead" line will be a good seller.
A color coordinated hat with: There is no "I" in idiot is the companion piece.

They need to cost MORE when bought as a set. Just a bit more to seal the deal.
Maybe a matching serial number. Something so dumb it would sell.

Cannonpointer » 10 Jul 2024, 9:40 pm » wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2024, 9:40 pm

The word "remain" is a bit tricky. England survived with its government intact, and I believe that Portugal soldiered on under the same civil administration. Spain's monarchy survived the spanish american war, which I believe we can agree was the end of spain's empire. But the italian government ended and was replaced by an american proxy at the end of empire. The greek empire ended when rome just kicked their door down and took their ****. 

I suspect america will fracture into several countries at the end of empire.

Dear sir, I respect your political acumen.  Its impeccable.

A "fracturing" is dependent on an active and intelligent populace.

America?
 

DeezerShoove » 10 Jul 2024, 9:50 pm » wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2024, 9:50 pm

I see guys like peepee acting with such confidence that they know something, but, never disclose how we can avert that slow and continuing trainwreck.
My first reaction is to, as always, conclude that nobody has the slightest clue what the "fix" is.

There is no fix under this government.

DeezerShoove » 10 Jul 2024, 9:50 pm » wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2024, 9:50 pm

Eventually, he showed he really had nothing but rage against the machine. No help there.
Milton Friedman writes books. Paul Krugman wins the Nobel Bowling Trophy. Newsletters abound. Etc.
They're all peepees...

So **** it. Pretend my life will conclude on a happy note.  
That dovetails with being optimistic as the house of cards tumbles.

Indeed. But none of that confutes a single word that peepee ever uttered. Peepee is a self-confuting machine, though - so there's that.

FOS » 10 Jul 2024, 9:36 pm » wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2024, 9:36 pm

Although that is usually what happens, I have reason to hope it might be different with the usa.

The collapse of most of these empires actually was catastrophic. The roman empire was just destroyed by barbarians. England was erased within 5 years of 'winning' ww2.

Interesting times friend. 

 
 

DeezerShoove » 10 Jul 2024, 9:59 pm » wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2024, 9:59 pm

I'm glad you like the line.

The "I believe in you, dickhead" line will be a good seller.
A color coordinated hat with: There is no "I" in idiot is the companion piece.

They need to cost MORE when bought as a set. Just a bit more to seal the deal.
Maybe a matching serial number. Something so dumb it would sell.

               - to all of it!    

Sumela » 10 Jul 2024, 10:05 pm » wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2024, 10:05 pm

Dear sir, I respect your political acumen.  Its impeccable.

A "fracturing" is dependent on an active and intelligent populace.

America?

No, no, no - STABILITY would be dependent on that. Surviving intact would require that. 

Fracturing only requires chaos and a ready strongman. 

The thing is, England, Portugal, and Spain all had a FUNCTIONAL government when their empires went not gently into that good night. Do we?
 

Cannonpointer » 10 Jul 2024, 10:14 pm » wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2024, 10:14 pm

No, no, no - STABILITY would be dependent on that. Surviving intact would require that. 

Fracturing only requires chaos and a ready strongman. 

The thing is, England, Portugal, and Spain all had a FUNCTIONAL government when their empires went not gently into that good night. Do we?

All good points sir.
But we are a compliant and docile people.  We are not France.
We obey.  And we have a HUGE compliant media that we worship.
 

Sumela » 10 Jul 2024, 10:22 pm » wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2024, 10:22 pm

All good points sir.
But we are a compliant and docile people.  We are not France.
We obey.  And we have a HUGE compliant media that we worship.

That is absolutely true - today. While we have our teevees and our cheesy poofs. 

The citizens of germany were hopeless, helpless, hapless - until at the helm there was hitler.

But even if we remain compliant and docile, whom we remain compliant and docile TO can become a regional thing, if centralized power fails and strongmen see openings. 

Imagine of we lose electricity and regular commodities. People starving are not docile. They are compliant only to those who can offer food and necessaries. No tampons for women, no beers for men, no food for the kiddies - that's a whole nuther murka and a whole nuther populace.

RebelGator » 10 Jul 2024, 6:41 am » wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2024, 6:41 am

He sounds like a Nazi ****-Stain.

You don't. 

You just sound predictable and mediocre. 

Sumela » 10 Jul 2024, 9:16 pm » wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2024, 9:16 pm

Sir, the complete collapse theory is unlikely. 
Look at all the countries that were once Empire - the Hegemon at the time.

Italy
Greece
England
Spain
Portugal

Their empires collapsed, but they remain functioning countries...although barely.

Murka's collapse will not be dystopian - we will simply become just another country.
And that is just fine with me.

After all of NHB pissing contests, I see it basically the same way.
With a whimper, not a bang.

Let those so-called better countries stay on top for a few decades. Fine by me.
Where I believe you and I part somewhat is I think they will be despised eventually too.
You apparently do not.

Why there would be any difference in that regard is a mystery to me.
It's all just mankind thumping on mankind.
Twas ever thus.

Cannonpointer » 10 Jul 2024, 10:09 pm » wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2024, 10:09 pm

There is no fix under this government.

Indeed. But none of that confutes a single word that peepee ever uttered. Peepee is a self-confuting machine, though - so there's that.

I sometimes ask a question in an admittedly clumsy or odd way.
But I have never posed as any type of know-it-all and defended **** that I know is indefensible.

Peepee and I went around and around for a while because I fell for some of his ****.
He wasn't entirely without chops, mind you. Not against an economic fawn-in-the-woods like me.
His "peepee on money" thread was at first glance a little intimidating.
I mean, who starts a thread like that unless you are extremely confident and actually know what the ****...

Then he turned into a **** clown about it.
Maybe I associate my series of posts with him too closely to others.

I do, however, have respect for some of our posters (especially in this thread) but even in here, not everything gels. Rather than pick at those minor distractions, I will let them slide. You haven't noticed so I leave well enough alone. I was your huckleberry today. We good.        
 

Sumela » 10 Jul 2024, 11:19 am » wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2024, 11:19 am

I agree with most of your post.  I simply prefer to call it empire or neo-liberalism.
Whether its your terminology or mine, folks just fail to grasp these truths
because of UksepshunalJIZM. 

They will complain about America all day long.....but dont you do it!

Neo-Liberalism is simply the arm of Hyper Capitalism that seeks to
make the whole world a debtor colony.  They do it all over...but the cuckies
will defend """free-enterprise  """ to the death.   As if Capitalism
is some sort of Utopia.  Then they put on a skirt and decry """THE DEEP STATE"""!!!

I regret to inform you I cannot reciprocate with greenies because I am in the negative. @Cannonpointer is helping me get that fixed as we speak       
 

DeezerShoove » 10 Jul 2024, 9:37 pm » wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2024, 9:37 pm

   If I had kids to prepare for the world, I'm not sure how I'd convey that message.

Johnny, you're 10 so you have 60+ years to get the boat righted. Good luck, son.

Well...it isn't the first time in history. That is basically what the roman poem was about which is famous for the line 'dulcet et decorum est'.

LowIQTrash » 11 Jul 2024, 12:03 am » wrote: ↑

11 Jul 2024, 12:03 am

I regret to inform you I cannot reciprocate with greenies because I am in the negative. @Cannonpointer is helping me get that fixed as we speak     

And one to grow on, ***!

Sumela » 10 Jul 2024, 11:19 am » wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2024, 11:19 am

I agree with most of your post.  I simply prefer to call it empire or neo-liberalism.
Whether its your terminology or mine, folks just fail to grasp these truths
because of UksepshunalJIZM. 

They will complain about America all day long.....but dont you do it!

Neo-Liberalism is simply the arm of Hyper Capitalism that seeks to
make the whole world a debtor colony.  They do it all over...but the cuckies
will defend """free-enterprise  """ to the death.   As if Capitalism
is some sort of Utopia.  Then they put on a skirt and decry """THE DEEP STATE"""!!!

The concept of "free Enterprise" sounds great on paper. Too bad we don't have anything remotely similar...maybe the black market for drugs? 

Conjobs wouldn't know "Free Enterprise" if it went up to them and kicked them in the gonads.

Cannonpointer » 10 Jul 2024, 2:36 pm » wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2024, 2:36 pm

I don't need a win. My answer to you was right on point, agreeing with the OP. It's pretty clear that you DISAGREE with the OP, but lack the ability to express it. In order to confute the OP, you have to pretend he wants free parking for his RV in your backyard. If ANYONE is looking for an easy win, it's the fellow pretending this thread is about using his equipment without being willing to pay rent on it. That is a deliberate mischaracterization of the OP.

And putting **** BACK into context is my bread and butter, by the way. Taking it out of context is only a hobby.

RVs are kind of gross TBH. If I'm going to go house-free I'd rather sleep in a boat in a marina. 

Also those people in RV camps are questionable at best...   

 

DeezerShoove » 10 Jul 2024, 11:09 pm » wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2024, 11:09 pm

I sometimes ask a question in an admittedly clumsy or odd way.
But I have never posed as any type of know-it-all and defended **** that I know is indefensible.

Peepee and I went around and around for a while because I fell for some of his ****.
He wasn't entirely without chops, mind you. Not against an economic fawn-in-the-woods like me.
His "peepee on money" thread was at first glance a little intimidating.
I mean, who starts a thread like that unless you are extremely confident and actually know what the ****...

Then he turned into a **** clown about it.
Maybe I associate my series of posts with him too closely to others.

I do, however, have respect for some of our posters (especially in this thread) but even in here, not everything gels. Rather than pick at those minor distractions, I will let them slide. You haven't noticed so I leave well enough alone. I was your huckleberry today. We good.      

Peepee proved Alexander Pope's advice: "Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian Spring; A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."

Peepee considered it his mission to shame rather than inform, because peepee had only a hammer, and everything looked like a nail.

I recall challenging him to say how we might keep the elasticity of our currency while ridding ourselves of its toxic debt load. He was completely clueless. He was good at one thing only: pointing the stink finger while shrieking condemnation. 

Many years ago I was challenged with the question whether I might prefer to know ugly truths, though powerless to do aught about them, or abide in blissful ignorance. Because I found the question worthy, I refused to provide a ready answer, preferring to sleep on the question and give it the consideration I believed it was due. Upon the next morn I had made the choice that I would prefer knowledge to ignorance whether painful or not, and immediately upon speaking that choice into existence, I began to discover many things about which I could do nothing but which had great power in my world. 

People who care about truth strive to speak it. That is what is what I do. And, from time to time, like peepee, I yell it. Or speak it obnoxiously to people who have no interest in it - and this is the majority. Most prefer the bliss of ignorance, unless they have some power to right the many wrongs that knowing reveals.