Liberal Forum

Sumela » 06 Nov 2024, 9:47 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Nov 2024, 9:47 pm

Not sure what Soviet aggression is.

Sounds like a cliche of some kind...jingoism.

If there was that in the 1940's maybe it was worth worrying about.
Seems more like Russia was pretty **** pissed off at the Krauts.
Why wouldn't they be?
Perhaps that helped fuel the view they were to be feared.
But over time, you'd think the original purpose for NATO may have diminished.
Governmental orgs seem to never disappear. Business agents for the global war machine, now.

Cannonpointer » 06 Nov 2024, 9:55 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Nov 2024, 9:55 pm

Even a monkey can hurt you, if he has a monkey wrench. 

The U.S. is ABSOLUTELY a colonial power. It has 32 vassals in Europe alone. It has a record of involving itself in disastrous and retarded conflicts. Avoiding a knock-down, drag-out with a retard does not make one a coward or a vasal. I never suggested that Trump could make Putin accept any redline-crossing ****. I merely said that Trump can make Putin an offer he doesn't refuse. Indeed, I EXPRESSLY stated that Trump will end the war on conditions favorable to Putin. 

Putin doesn't run on pride - he runs on intelligence and cunning. All Trump has to do, if he wants to sway Vlad this way or that, is convince Vlad that there is more pain for Russia in this course of action than there is in that course of action.

Let me put it to you this way: The deep state forced Putin into this war. Since they made him fight a war he did not want to fight, are YOU saying that makes Putin our bitch? They DID force his hand, did they not? And if Nigbama's deep state can force Putin's hand, without Putin being our bitch, what makes you suppose that Trump cannot? And in the scenario that I describe, Putin gets what he wants: an end to the hostilities on terms that he can live with. That is PRECISELY Putin's victory condition.

Hmmm.  Okay.

Great dissertation.  I agree with most of it...the sentiment I mean.
You and I are both admirers of Vlad.  I respect you.

But your plan or scenario, presupposes no interference by the Empire.
The problem.....Putin no longer trusts anything from DISEASED WASH DC.
All liars...and liars WILL BE in Trumps cabinet. 
 

DeezerShoove » 06 Nov 2024, 10:10 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Nov 2024, 10:10 pm

If there was that in the 1940's maybe it was worth worrying about.
Seems more like Russia was pretty **** pissed off at the Krauts.
Why wouldn't they be?
Perhaps that helped fuel the view they were to be feared.
But over time, you'd think the original purpose for NATO may have diminished.
Governmental orgs seem to never disappear. Business agents for the global war machine, now.

Fear of Russia is an Empire created narrative.
Same with China...Iran...NK.

We are silly cucks.


 

Cannonpointer » 06 Nov 2024, 10:05 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Nov 2024, 10:05 pm

When I asked its purpose, I asked in the present tense. This is not to agree with your history, but to say that the history is not worth arguing about in the present. In MY view of NATO's history, it was always intended to make vassals of Europe's nations.

Every nation that joins NATO must immediately gear up, as a condition of membership, to NATO's military standards.

That means buying a ton of weapons from America's MIC. Which is owned by blackrock.

Follow the money.

I only brought that old **** up because it was taught that way long ago.
When I learned it, much time had passed and the war reasons were long gone.
I can't say I ever got the "vassal" thing as an overt cause to create that org. way back then.
I mean, who would join such a group? "Join us and be second class crap."

Making a country gear up to meet standards doesn't seem like a vassal.
They theoretically have to join the battle should it come to pass.
It is a "defensive" org after all. Can't have a bunch of defenseless pussies.   

So, this line of crap is what they seem to want us to buy into.
Meanwhile following the money tells a bit different story.

I think NATO has overplayed, overstayed, over reached, etc.

Sumela » 06 Nov 2024, 10:28 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Nov 2024, 10:28 pm

Fear of Russia is an Empire created narrative.
Same with China...Iran...NK.

We are silly cucks.

Russia spent most of its history wary of China. And the feeling was mutual.
Only recently have they backed off (some) in defending that border.
India and China still have skirmishes as well.
Cucks.

I guess we're just a fearful species. Humans hurt each other...

Cannonpointer » 06 Nov 2024, 9:46 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Nov 2024, 9:46 pm

Those same schools are now teaching that many girls have penises. 

You might want to rethink whatever you learned from those schools.

Don't miss my point. I'm not in school. Nor do I believe that stupid ****.

Sumela » 06 Nov 2024, 10:14 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Nov 2024, 10:14 pm

Hmmm.  Okay.

Great dissertation.  I agree with most of it...the sentiment I mean.
You and I are both admirers of Vlad.  I respect you.

But your plan or scenario, presupposes no interference by the Empire.
The problem.....Putin no longer trusts anything from DISEASED WASH DC.
All liars...and liars WILL BE in Trumps cabinet.

russia can trust trump as far as he can throw him. I am sure putin remembers when trump abandoned the kurds.

----------------------------------------

https://www.newsweek.com/kurds-strike-d ... ed-1464950

Now with Turkey's Operation Peace Spring intensifying and its incursion going far deeper into Syrian territory than anticipated, the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) have done exactly that, stating it had no other choice when faced with possible extermination and after America turned its back."We know that we would have to make painful compromises with Moscow and Bashar al-Assad if we go down the road of working with them," Mazloum Abdi, the SDF's commander-in-chief, wrote in an article for Foreign Policy on Sunday. "But if we have to choose between compromises and the genocide of our people, we will surely choose life for our people."The deal—brokered on Sunday between Syria, Russia and the Kurds—hands over the Kurdish-controlled, semi-autonomous border towns of Manbij and Kobani to Damascus, with Syrian state media announcing that Assad's army was moving north "confront Turkish aggression on Syrian territory."
 

Sumela » 06 Nov 2024, 10:14 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Nov 2024, 10:14 pm

Hmmm.  Okay.

Great dissertation.  I agree with most of it...the sentiment I mean.
You and I are both admirers of Vlad.  I respect you.

But your plan or scenario, presupposes no interference by the Empire.
The problem.....Putin no longer trusts anything from DISEASED WASH DC.
All liars...and liars WILL BE in Trumps cabinet.

Well, as I said, Trump's offer will meet Putin's victory conditions. He has them you know - unlike Zelensky. He actually has an end game. 

Brokering that end game - which is what Trump will do - hardly makes Vlad anyone's bitch. And the brokerage doesn't require trust. If Putin's end game requires trust, he has no end game. 

Putin wants to build up Russia. Economically, I mean. They have plenty of resources already. He was pushed into a war by an existential threat. Taking that threat off the table is a win. Walking away with Crimea and with the Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk, and Zaporizhzhia oblasts and an agreement limiting the size of Ukraine's military and the weaponry allowed to exist on its soil - with the west paying for repairs on their side of the line and Russia responsible to rebuild their side is both what Putin wants and what Trump will offer - mark my words. 

And I don't think the empire is going to be working with the same donald trump after the *** raping they gave him since 2016. He's pissed. 

You already know why they hate him. He's a wild card. He goes off script. Now they've tried to kill him. He's likely in a mood. I genuinely believe two things about Trump:

1. He really does intend to end that war, and
2. He knows what it's going to take. 

Likewise, I believe two things about Putin:

1. He really does not want this war to go another day, and
2. He's going to be able to live with Trump's offer. 

The Ukraine conflict will never see 2026. 

DeezerShoove » 06 Nov 2024, 10:35 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Nov 2024, 10:35 pm

Russia spent most of its history wary of China. And the feeling was mutual.
Only recently have they backed off (some) in defending that border.
India and China still have skirmishes as well.
Cucks.

I guess we're just a fearful species. Humans hurt each other...

Actually, most of these issues have been resolved.
They were never that serious.
Mostly resolved in BRICS 2024 in beautiful Kazan.

They have slowly learned that the DC MAFIA is the real enemy.
 

Sumela » 06 Nov 2024, 10:41 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Nov 2024, 10:41 pm

Actually, most of these issues have been resolved.
They were never that serious.
Mostly resolved in BRICS 2024 in beautiful Kazan.

They have slowly learned that the DC MAFIA is the real enemy.

Sure...

DeezerShoove » 06 Nov 2024, 10:43 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Nov 2024, 10:43 pm

Sure...

yup
 

Cannonpointer » 06 Nov 2024, 10:40 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Nov 2024, 10:40 pm

Well, as I said, Trump's offer will meet Putin's victory conditions. He has them you know - unlike Zelensky. He actually has an end game. 

Brokering that end game - which is what Trump will do - hardly makes Vlad anyone's bitch. And the brokerage doesn't require trust. If Putin's end game requires trust, he has no end game. 

Putin wants to build up Russia. Economically, I mean. They have plenty of resources already. He was pushed into a war by an existential threat. Taking that threat off the table is a win. Walking away with Crimea and with the Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk, and Zaporizhzhia oblasts and an agreement limiting the size of Ukraine's military and the weaponry allowed to exist on its soil - with the west paying for repairs on their side of the line and Russia responsible to rebuild their side is both what Putin wants and what Trump will offer - mark my words. 

And I don't think the empire is going to be working with the same donald trump after the *** raping they gave him since 2016. He's pissed. 

You already know why they hate him. He's a wild card. He goes off script. Now they've tried to kill him. He's likely in a mood. I genuinely believe two things about Trump:

1. He really does intend to end that war, and
2. He knows what it's going to take. 

Likewise, I believe two things about Putin:

1. He really does not want this war to go another day, and
2. He's going to be able to live with Trump's offer. 

The Ukraine conflict will never see 2026.

Again, glorious, I agree sir.

But...
""when Empires begin to crumble...they go insane"'

-Chris Hedges
 

jerrab » 06 Nov 2024, 10:39 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Nov 2024, 10:39 pm

russia can trust trump as far as he can throw him. I am sure putin remembers when trump abandoned the kurds.

----------------------------------------

https://www.newsweek.com/kurds-strike-d ... ed-1464950

Now with Turkey's Operation Peace Spring intensifying and its incursion going far deeper into Syrian territory than anticipated, the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) have done exactly that, stating it had no other choice when faced with possible extermination and after America turned its back."We know that we would have to make painful compromises with Moscow and Bashar al-Assad if we go down the road of working with them," Mazloum Abdi, the SDF's commander-in-chief, wrote in an article for Foreign Policy on Sunday. "But if we have to choose between compromises and the genocide of our people, we will surely choose life for our people."The deal—brokered on Sunday between Syria, Russia and the Kurds—hands over the Kurdish-controlled, semi-autonomous border towns of Manbij and Kobani to Damascus, with Syrian state media announcing that Assad's army was moving north "confront Turkish aggression on Syrian territory."

WASH DC always abandons its proxies.
Useful idiots.  Shameful.
 

Sumela » 06 Nov 2024, 10:55 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Nov 2024, 10:55 pm

Again, glorious, I agree sir.

But...
""when Empires begin to crumble...they go insane"'

-Chris Hedges

There is a caveat - the middle east can throw everything off. But I believe "they" want Ukraine to end so that Iran can start. 

(And then they're going to find out that China has Iran's back.)
 

jerrab » 06 Nov 2024, 10:39 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Nov 2024, 10:39 pm

russia can trust trump as far as he can throw him. I am sure putin remembers when trump abandoned the kurds.

---------------------------------------

Trump had no obligation whatsoever to the Kurds. Turkey is a NATO ally that has our nukes on its soil. The Kurds are stateless nonentities who reached beyond their grasp (as has been their wont for many years). 

They trusted nigbama. They chose poorly. 

The notion that the Kurds were our allies, or that we had any sort of formal treaty or agreement with them, or that we had any sort of moral duty to them, is the stuff of propaganda aimed at those with an extremely immature understanding of geopolitics. Our duty was to our ally Erdogan, and Trump did his duty to Turkey, removing our small force from between a Kurdish terror cell and Turkey's much larger force.
 
 

Cannonpointer » 06 Nov 2024, 11:02 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Nov 2024, 11:02 pm

There is a caveat - the middle east can throw everything off. But I believe "they" want Ukraine to end so that Iran can start. 

(And then they're going to find out that China has Iran's back.)

Okay.  Yup.

MrKelly had the same discussion.
On to Iran!!!

Sumela » 06 Nov 2024, 10:56 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Nov 2024, 10:56 pm

WASH DC always abandons its proxies.
Useful idiots.  Shameful.

plus trump takes all the credit for destroying isis which was really done by the kurds.
 

jerrab » 06 Nov 2024, 11:23 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Nov 2024, 11:23 pm

plus trump takes all the credit for destroying isis which was really done by the kurds.

True...along with Russia's involvement in Syria

to fight the WASH DC proxy....ISIS.
 

Sumela » 06 Nov 2024, 10:56 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Nov 2024, 10:56 pm

WASH DC always abandons its proxies.
Useful idiots.  Shameful.

russia will strike a peace deal  with trump.

jerrab » 06 Nov 2024, 11:23 pm » wrote: ↑

06 Nov 2024, 11:23 pm

plus trump takes all the credit for destroying isis which was really done by the kurds.

ISIS is an American proxy. It was fighting Bashar al Assad for us.