Liberal Forum

Vegas » 24 Feb 2025, 11:03 am » wrote: ↑

24 Feb 2025, 11:03 am

Yes, that is true. However, they can be minimized if an effort is made. Israel made no effort whatsoever.

Evidence indicates that Israel did make efforts to minimize civilian casualties.  But, at the same time, efforts were made by Hamas to use civilians to shield its most important underground operations.  I don't expect any country to ******-foot around with its enemy.  In fact, when countries placate an enemy that uses human shields, it just emboldens them to do it more.  When people wake up and realize that they will be killed for agreeing to be human shields for their military, there's a chance they might stop this ****.
 

Skans » 24 Feb 2025, 11:08 am » wrote: ↑

24 Feb 2025, 11:08 am

Evidence indicates that Israel did make efforts to minimize civilian casualties.  But, at the same time, efforts were made by Hamas to use civilians to shield its most important underground operations.  I don't expect any country to ******-foot around with its enemy.  In fact, when countries placate an enemy that uses human shields, it just emboldens them to do it more.  When people wake up and realize that they will be killed for agreeing to be human shields for their military, there's a chance they might stop this ****.

Hamas made no effort. Ok. That doesn't give the right for Israel to do the same. Israel fooled the civilians. they dropped a bunch of leaflets telling the civilians which building they are going to bomb and to head South....one problem. After they went South, they bombed the South. They lured them all out and killed them anyway. They only did the leaflet tactic to appease the world. 

Vegas » 24 Feb 2025, 11:12 am » wrote: ↑

24 Feb 2025, 11:12 am

Hamas made no effort. Ok. That doesn't give the right for Israel to do the same. Israel fooled the civilians. they dropped a bunch of leaflets telling the civilians which building they are going to bomb and to head South....one problem. After they went South, they bombed the South. They lured them all out and killed them anyway. They only did the leaflet tactic to appease the world.

No one intentionally fooled civilians.  Look, if Israel wanted to commit genocide, it would have started with all of those Hamas POW's they've imprisoned.  Notice how Israel is able to exchange over 1000 POW's - alive, fed, in good condition.  They do exactly as they commit to do.  Hamas, on the other hand, makes promises to return hostages, then they back out or reduce the number they promised to return.  They lie.  They lie repeatedly. 

Moreover, most of Hamas's hostages (nearly all civilians) were starved, murdered and they can't even return the dead bodies. Right there, that aught to tell you who the good guys are and who the bad guys are.  If you seriously can't figure this out from simple facts that can't be propagandized, who the liars are, who the good guys vs. bad guys are, then no amount of facts would ever change your mind.

As for leaflets dropped by Israel, they read: "Evacuate your residence immediately. Everyone who finds themselves near the terrorists or their buildings expose their lives to danger. Every house used by terrorist organizations will be targeted. Respecting the instructions of the IDF will prevent you, the civilians, being exposed to harm".

And, what did Hamas leaflets tell Israelis to do as they were firing tens of thousands of rockets into Israel.....  CRICKETS.
 
 

Skans » 24 Feb 2025, 1:59 pm » wrote: ↑

24 Feb 2025, 1:59 pm

No one intentionally fooled civilians.  Look, if Israel wanted to commit genocide, it would have started with all of those Hamas POW's they've imprisoned.  Notice how Israel is able to exchange over 1000 POW's - alive, fed, in good condition.  They do exactly as they commit to do.  Hamas, on the other hand, makes promises to return hostages, then they back out or reduce the number they promised to return.  They lie.  They lie repeatedly. 

Moreover, most of Hamas's hostages (nearly all civilians) were starved, murdered and they can't even return the dead bodies. Right there, that aught to tell you who the good guys are and who the bad guys are.  If you seriously can't figure this out from simple facts that can't be propagandized, who the liars are, who the good guys vs. bad guys are, then no amount of facts would ever change your mind.

As for leaflets dropped by Israel, they read: "Evacuate your residence immediately. Everyone who finds themselves near the terrorists or their buildings expose their lives to danger. Every house used by terrorist organizations will be targeted. Respecting the instructions of the IDF will prevent you, the civilians, being exposed to harm".

And, what did Hamas leaflets tell Israelis to do as they were firing tens of thousands of rockets into Israel.....  CRICKETS.

Hamas is scum. I would never defend them. Their actions are equally deplorable. Israel's evil is just more strategic. They can't just commit blatant genocide or ethnic cleansing in front of the world. They have to do it more inconspicuously. They block aid. They have exiled the civilians from Gaza. They made it clear to the neighboring nations that they will be receiving an influx of Palestinian civilians. Not Hamas, but civilians. They didn't just push Hamas out of the way, they displaced all of the civilians. There is nothing left in Gaza. Most of the buildings are leveled and the ones that are standing are about to fall over. That is called strategic ethnic cleansing. They would have committed all out genocide if the world wasn't watching. 

Vegas » 24 Feb 2025, 2:07 pm » wrote: ↑

24 Feb 2025, 2:07 pm

Hamas is scum. I would never defend them. Their actions are equally deplorable. Israel's evil is just more strategic. They can't just commit blatant genocide or ethnic cleansing in front of the world. They have to do it more inconspicuously. I disagree.  Again, if Israel wanted to commit genocide, they wouldn't have thousands of Hamas POW's that they are keeping alive and trading for a few live individuals and a handful of dead bodies.  One of the easiest ways to commit genocide is institute a "take no prisoners" order.

They block aid. No country at war is going to allow aid to get to the enemy.  That's what was happening.  Hamas was taking all of the so-called aid.  At first, Israel allowed this, until it figured out that Hamas was taking it all.  Also, it was being used to smuggle money and weapons.  UNRAW  got caught red handed on a grand scale.

They have exiled the civilians from Gaza. No, they didn't.  They couldn't.  If they did, where did they go?  Egypt?  No, Egypt wouldn't take them and Israel sealed the border between Gaza and Israel (as well did Egypt).  Israel?  No, Israel wasn't about to allow that.  So, if they exiled civilians, where did they go?  They all stayed in Gaza.  I've got to ask, on this particular "fact" of yours, where are you getting this information?  Because, there is absolutely nowhere for Israel to "exile" Gazans to.

They made it clear to the neighboring nations that they will be receiving an influx of Palestinian civilians. No, they didn't.  There is only one neighboring nation, Egypt, and Egypt won't accept any Palestinians.  Further, Israel and Egypt sealed the border between Gaza and Egypt.

Not Hamas, but civilians. Again, no.  But, even assuming that Palestinian civilians went to Egypt, the only reason they were forced to flee their homes was because their homes were built on top of military installations.  Their homes were housing weapons.  Their homes were not homes, but were military buildings. Fair game for destruction in a war.

They didn't just push Hamas out of the way, they displaced all of the civilians. Now, I will agree that Israel displaced civilians.  But, all within Gaza.  Not into other countries. Again, the reason they did this was because all of these civilians were living on top of a huge, interconnected military fortress. The alternative would have been to simply annihilate and eradicate the civilians who were living on top of a huge underground military base.  You know me, I have said before that I believe that eradicating human-shields would have been completely justified. 

There is nothing left in Gaza. There is more there than should be.  By now, it should be a peaceful, quiet, unpopulated piece of land ready for redevelopment by Israel.

Most of the buildings are leveled and the ones that are standing are about to fall over. That is called strategic ethnic cleansing. Call it what you want.  I call it "a job unfinished".

They would have committed all out genocide if the world wasn't watching.  They should have committed an all out genocide with the world watching and added a "F-YOU" on top.  The unfortunate truth is, they didn't even come close to doing this.  Very unfortunate, indeed.