Liberal Forum

Zeets2 » 42 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

42 minutes ago

N
And of course, that's the result of having a demented moron like Biden telling Zelensky that joining NATO is up to Ukraine:

Yup, THOSE were the words of the liberal idiot that fools like YOU supported, isn't it?
And there is no doubt that had Kamaltoe won, she stupidly would have CONTINUED paying hundreds of billions of dollars a year from US taxpayers!
Do you deny that?

and I complained a lot about biden saying ukraine has the right  to want to join nato even before russia invaded.

Jantje_Smit » Today, 6:50 am » wrote: ↑

Today, 6:50 am

I'm not sure if it was a setup, it took some time and effort to organize that meeting and everyone was convinced Zelensky was going to sign a deal that would make Trump look good, the MSM sure thought so.. on the other hand, it is Trump, I could see him pull a stand like that, and as he said, it makes for some great television..

Well, there are certain facts that we can use to form an opinion in the matter.

First, there's the fact that we burned their government down, and planted a puppet government. That's not an opinion. I'm sure you've heard the Nuland video - if not, signify. 

So, it's a fact that Trump is barking at his own dog - not the neighbor's dog.

Next, there is the fact that Trump was the first to provide Ukraine with offensive weapons - greenlighting others doing so. The US is the leader of the NATO nations. They don't move until we move. So it was TRUMP - not Biden - who brought into the NATO Overton window the idea of giving Ukraine WMDs. Trump is barking at his own dog, for a fact.

Trump was the first to lay brutal sanctions on the Russian nation - with the clear and inarguable intention of causing severe pain to the Russian people. It's beyond obvious that the intention of causing this pain was to cause Putin's removal by an angry populace - to weaken him with the oligarchs and the people. Bear in mind that it was not just the Russian government that was sanctioned. It was the oligarchs. They were made to feel pain so that they would turn against Putin. The problem with Putin is that he believes in Russian sovereignty and is incorruptible. They don't like that. That is unacceptable. 

So, Trump fed this dog, supplied this dog, and bloodied and weakened this dog's target. And then the dog failed miserably, because the dog's target was stronger and more patient and cunning and resilient than anyone had dreamed. And now, Trump is definitely barking at his own dog. 

I believe that Trump understands Putin is going to require oral servicing, and I believe that Trump is blowjob-averse. His teeth don't fold back. So he needs a way out. He needs to save face. He needs toilet paper. And Zelenski is it. He's a Kurd. And Europe is it, too. Europe has to eat the costs of Ukraine - even though the entire thing was thrust upon Europe by the US State Dept (Never forget Vicky Nuland's famous words, "**** the EU).

I am quite satisfied that Trump set Zelenski up. That is why this thing ran fifty minutes instead of ten. It took that long to make the silly thing break. If it had taken ninety minutes, the damned thing would have gone ninety. 
 

PhiloBeddo » 28 Feb 2025, 1:25 pm » wrote: ↑

28 Feb 2025, 1:25 pm

Zelenskyy has little man's disease. He has no gratitude for the USA's support. He better watch it, Trump might just support Russia and take all the rare earth minerals and **** Ukraine. They are a completely corrupt country.

Fun fact. Scott Bessent is the secretary of the treasury. He's a soros guy. JD Vance is a peter thiel (pay pal oligarch, big finance) guy. Vance is a working class hero - but he is a creature of a big finance oligarch. The mineral deal that scott bessent wrote is nothing more or less than a Christmas present to Blackrock. 

Trump was the first to give offensive weapons to Ukraine - opening the door for our European vassals to follow suit. He was the first to apply crippling sanctions against Putin. So he fed the dog, then he bloodied the dog's target. He was involved in this proxy war up to his eyeballs. And now he is distancing himself from it, using zelemski as toilet paper. Which is fine with me, I despise the midget. But that doesn't mean I'm going to call a spade a pick ax. No, I am going to call a spade a spade. And that means I will say that this was as much Trump's play as anyone's. Trump owns the failure as much as anyone. But he is extremely adept at taking a loss and walking it off - the rest of these fools just don't know how to do that. 

jerrab » Yesterday, 11:42 am » wrote: ↑

Yesterday, 11:42 am

-----------------------The two countries were expected to sign a critical minerals deal as part of efforts to end Ukraine’s war with Russia, but after Zelenskyy insisted that the deal include security guarantees from the U.S., Trump showed open disdain for the Ukrainian president.---------------------
 

What part of 'as part of efforts to end' don't you get?

Zelensky doesn't hold the cards to insist on anything, and a minerals deal would be a security in itself, Putin wouldn't bomb or take over any mines because that would piss Trump off..

 

 

Cannonpointer » Yesterday, 8:10 pm » wrote: ↑

Yesterday, 8:10 pm

Well, there are certain facts that we can use to form an opinion in the matter.

First, there's the fact that we burned their government down, and planted a puppet government. That's not an opinion. I'm sure you've heard the Nuland video - if not, signify. 

So, it's a fact that Trump is barking at his own dog - not the neighbor's dog.

Next, there is the fact that Trump was the first to provide Ukraine with offensive weapons - greenlighting others doing so. The US is the leader of the NATO nations. They don't move until we move. So it was TRUMP - not Biden - who brought into the NATO Overton window the idea of giving Ukraine WMDs. Trump is barking at his own dog, for a fact.

Trump was the first to lay brutal sanctions on the Russian nation - with the clear and inarguable intention of causing severe pain to the Russian people. It's beyond obvious that the intention of causing this pain was to cause Putin's removal by an angry populace - to weaken him with the oligarchs and the people. Bear in mind that it was not just the Russian government that was sanctioned. It was the oligarchs. They were made to feel pain so that they would turn against Putin. The problem with Putin is that he believes in Russian sovereignty and is incorruptible. They don't like that. That is unacceptable. 

So, Trump fed this dog, supplied this dog, and bloodied and weakened this dog's target. And then the dog failed miserably, because the dog's target was stronger and more patient and cunning and resilient than anyone had dreamed. And now, Trump is definitely barking at his own dog. 

I believe that Trump understands Putin is going to require oral servicing, and I believe that Trump is blowjob-averse. His teeth don't fold back. So he needs a way out. He needs to save face. He needs toilet paper. And Zelenski is it. He's a Kurd. And Europe is it, too. Europe has to eat the costs of Ukraine - even though the entire thing was thrust upon Europe by the US State Dept (Never forget Vicky Nuland's famous words, "**** the EU).

I am quite satisfied that Trump set Zelenski up. That is why this thing ran fifty minutes instead of ten. It took that long to make the silly thing break. If it had taken ninety minutes, the damned thing would have gone ninety.

oh, I remember the videos of the cookie monster and Trump went along with the neocons in his first term, but times have changed, it's different this time around, Trumps wants to go down in the history books as the (only) president who delivered on his promises, that would include a peace deal in Ukraine, I don't think he set Zelensky up, not on purpose anyway, but when Zelensky didn't show enough respect he just couldn't resist..

 


 

jerrab » Yesterday, 4:25 pm » wrote: ↑

Yesterday, 4:25 pm

nothing about soldiers

No, huh?  
What do you call these?

U.S. announces more Ukraine aid as Zelensky calls for NATO to deploy troops to "force Russia into peace"CBS News January 9, 2025

And this is the exact quote from Zelensky in 2023:
"The U.S. will have to send their sons and daughters exactly the same way as we are sending [our] sons and daughters to war."

If you're so unaware of these demands that have been made by Zelensky, on top of his refusing to take NATO membership off the table before negotiating a peace deal, then I submit that you're hardly qualified to either defend Ukraine or attack Trump on this topic.  So kindly educate yourself to the facts before attempting to engage anyone on the subject again.

Jantje_Smit » Today, 7:31 am » wrote: ↑

Today, 7:31 am

What part of 'as part of efforts to end' don't you get?

Zelensky doesn't hold the cards to insist on anything, and a minerals deal would be a security in itself, Putin wouldn't bomb or take over any mines because that would piss Trump off..

good lord that is so dumb.

Zeets2 » 49 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

49 minutes ago

No, huh?  
What do you call these?

And this is the exact quote from Zelensky in 2023:
"The U.S. will have to send their sons and daughters exactly the same way as we are sending [our] sons and daughters to war."

If you're so unaware of these demands that have been made by Zelensky, on top of his refusing to take NATO membership off the table before negotiating a peace deal, then I submit that you're hardly qualified to either defend Ukraine or attack Trump on this topic.  So kindly educate yourself to the facts before attempting to engage anyone on the subject again.

I already showed that zelensky would take off joining nato.

--------------------------------------------
It will be difficult without the U.S. support. But we can’t lose our will, our freedom, or our people. We’ve seen how Russians came to our homes and killed many people. Nobody wants another wave of occupation. If we cannot be accepted to NATO, we need some clear structure of security guarantees from our allies in the U.S

Zeets2 » 54 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

54 minutes ago

No, huh?  
What do you call these?

And this is the exact quote from Zelensky in 2023:
"The U.S. will have to send their sons and daughters exactly the same way as we are sending [our] sons and daughters to war."

If you're so unaware of these demands that have been made by Zelensky, on top of his refusing to take NATO membership off the table before negotiating a peace deal, then I submit that you're hardly qualified to either defend Ukraine or attack Trump on this topic.  So kindly educate yourself to the facts before attempting to engage anyone on the subject again.

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-v ... 3661209159
CLAIM: A video clip shows Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy saying that Americans will have to send their “sons and daughters” to the war in Ukraine.AP’S ASSESSMENT: Missing context. Zelenskyy was explaining that if Russia attacked NATO member states, which are U.S. allies, the U.S would likely send troops to protect those countries. He was not suggesting Americans would have to fight in Ukraine.THE FACTS: The clip, cut from a two-hour livestreamed  on the somber one-year anniversary of Russia’s war on Ukraine, shows Zelenskyy speaking with the audio dubbed by a translator.“The U.S. will have to send their sons and daughters exactly the same way as we are sending their sons and daughters to war,” he says. “And they will have to fight. Because it’s NATO that we’re talking about, and they will be dying, god forbid, because it’s a horrible thing.”
 

jerrab » 48 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

48 minutes ago

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-v ... 3661209159
CLAIM: A video clip shows Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy saying that Americans will have to send their “sons and daughters” to the war in Ukraine.AP’S ASSESSMENT: Missing context. Zelenskyy was explaining that if Russia attacked NATO member states, which are U.S. allies, the U.S would likely send troops to protect those countries. THE FACTS: The clip, cut from a two-hour livestreamed 

↓news conference

 on the somber one-year anniversary of Russia’s war on Ukraine, shows Zelenskyy speaking with the audio dubbed by a translator.“The U.S. will have to send their sons and daughters exactly the same way as we are sending their sons and daughters to war,” he says. “And they will have to fight. Because it’s NATO that we’re talking about, and they will be dying, god forbid, because it’s a horrible thing.”
 
****Zelensky’ is a dangerous sociopath who wants your children to fight his war,” reads a tweet shared more than 4,000 times.But the full context of the clip reveals that the Ukrainian president was talking about a hypothetical situation in which Russia invades NATO member countries, “The US is never going to give up on the NATO member states,” Zelenskyy says in the video. “If it happens so that Ukraine, due to various opinions and weakening, depleting of assistance, loses, Russia is going to enter Baltic states, NATO member states, and then the U.S. will have to send their sons and daughters exactly the same way as we are sending their sons and daughters to war.

Your "fact check" is ****!  There is ZERO evidence that Russia would attack the Baltic states IF they defeat and take over Ukraine.

It doesn't matter if Zelensky is talking about a hypothetical situation because he's vowed not to enter into peace talks unless they're allowed to join NATO!  And that would IMMEDIATELY REQUIRE US troops to defend him and his corrupt country against Russia.  That's called World War III, in the event you haven't figured that out yet!  And that's what he believes is the only way he can win his war.  So what difference does the context make if that's the only condition he will accept to talk peace?  That's why Trump and Vance have told him he's playing with a very weak hand, because as far as the US is concerned, it's our way or the highway!  Either he gives up his dream of joining NATO (which Russia would NEVER accept), and begins talking peace now, the US will cut him off and he'll be decimated by Russia entirely within a matter of weeks, leaving him with a bare shell of a country to preside over!  Unless, of course, you're of the belief that our European allies will happily make up the loss of the US gravy train, which is quite the joke!  

And that's precisely what the voters who elected Trump expect, because we see the corruption that the idiot Biden has driven as he's required no explanation or audit of exactly where our hundreds of billions in aid have already gone, and US taxpayers are outraged that we're paying not only for **** like pensions for Ukraine workers, but also funding Zelensky's $60 million a year salary, to add to his almost half a billion dollars of net worth!  So why don't you come out and confirm that you SUPPORT US funding of Ukraine's pensions and adding to Zelensky's wealth, all while Democrat idiots are claiming the lie that Trump wants to cut OUR social security while continuing Biden's desire to fund theirs?

Since you couldn't be bothered to vote for either side last November, how is it you think you're qualified to defend Zelensky's demands today?

 
 

Zeets2 » 38 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

38 minutes ago

Your "fact check" is ****!  There is ZERO evidence that Russia would attack the Baltic states IF they defeat and take over Ukraine.

It doesn't matter if Zelensky is talking about a hypothetical situation because he's vowed not to enter into peace talks unless they're allowed to join NATO!  And that would IMMEDIATELY REQUIRE US troops to defend him and his corrupt country against Russia.  That's called World War III, in the event you haven't figured that out yet!  And that's what he believes is the only way he can win his war.  So what difference does the context make if that's the only condition he will accept to talk peace?  That's why Trump and Vance have told him he's playing with a very weak hand, because as far as the US is concerned, it's our way or the highway!  Either he gives up his dream of joining NATO (which Russia would NEVER accept), and begins talking peace now, the US will cut him off and he'll be decimated by Russia entirely within a matter of weeks, leaving him with a bare shell of a country to preside over!  Unless, of course, you're of the belief that our European allies will happily make up the loss of the US gravy train, which is quite the joke!  

And that's precisely what the voters who elected Trump expect, because we see the corruption that the idiot Biden has driven as he's required no explanation or audit of exactly where our hundreds of billions in aid have already gone, and US taxpayers are outraged that we're paying not only for **** like pensions for Ukraine workers, but also funding Zelensky's $60 million a year salary, to add to his almost half a billion dollars of net worth!  So why don't you come out and confirm that you SUPPORT US funding of Ukraine's pensions and adding to Zelensky's wealth, all while Democrat idiots are claiming the lie that Trump wants to cut OUR social security while continuing Biden's desire to fund theirs?

Since you couldn't be bothered to vote for either side last November, how is it you think you're qualified to defend Zelensky's demands today?

he already said he would give up trying to join nato.

you just want to keep the war going with no peace agreement.

you just want to prolong the war 

jerrab » 57 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

57 minutes ago

he already said he would give up trying to join nato.

you just want to keep the war going with no peace agreement.

you just want to prolong the war

Don't be an ***!
You know damn well that I'm a HUGE Trump supporter, and Trump WILL NOT agree to continue throwing money at them to continue the war!
YOU, on the other hand, support Biden's stupidity in telling Zelensky that joining NATO is up to Ukraine, and simultaneously telling the world that we will continue to support and fund them with taxpayer billions with no end in sight, WHICH TRUMP WILL NOT TOLERATE!

And if Ukraine wants to continue their war WITHOUT ANOTHER NICKEL FROM THE US, then they're perfectly within their rights to do so, and we WILL NOT BE INVOLVED IN ANY WAY!  And I have no problem with that, if that is what they choose to do ALONE!

The peace agreement Trump left open is there.  Agree to a cease fire now, admit that joining NATO is OFF the table, and the US will negotiate a peace deal on their behalf with Russia.

Now, liar.  Show me the quote where Zelensky claims he has given up his dreams of joining NATO.
 

Zeets2 » 13 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

13 minutes ago

Don't be an ***!
You know damn well that I'm a HUGE Trump supporter, and Trump WILL NOT agree to continue throwing money at them to continue the war!
YOU, on the other hand, support Biden's stupidity in telling Zelensky that joining NATO is up to Ukraine, and simultaneously telling the world that we will continue to support and fund them with taxpayer billions with no end in sight, WHICH TRUMP WILL NOT TOLERATE!

And if Ukraine wants to continue their war WITHOUT ANOTHER NICKEL FROM THE US, then they're perfectly within their rights to do so, and we WILL NOT BE INVOLVED IN ANY WAY!  And I have no problem with that, if that is what they choose to do ALONE!

The peace agreement Trump left open is there.  Agree to a cease fire now, admit that joining NATO is OFF the table, and the US will negotiate a peace deal on their behalf with Russia.

Now, liar.  Show me the quote where Zelensky claims he has given up his dreams of joining NATO.

you refuse to see the truth, no wonder you are a trump supporter. I have said many times in this thread that I DID NOT SUPPORT BIDEN ABOUT UKRAINE AND NATO AND THE UKRAINE WAR.

there was no peace agreement from trump only a demand that america can mine minerals from ukraine. again not a peace agreement, nothing about stopping the war.

Zeets2 » 13 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

13 minutes ago

Don't be an ***!
You know damn well that I'm a HUGE Trump supporter, and Trump WILL NOT agree to continue throwing money at them to continue the war!
YOU, on the other hand, support Biden's stupidity in telling Zelensky that joining NATO is up to Ukraine, and simultaneously telling the world that we will continue to support and fund them with taxpayer billions with no end in sight, WHICH TRUMP WILL NOT TOLERATE!

And if Ukraine wants to continue their war WITHOUT ANOTHER NICKEL FROM THE US, then they're perfectly within their rights to do so, and we WILL NOT BE INVOLVED IN ANY WAY!  And I have no problem with that, if that is what they choose to do ALONE!

The peace agreement Trump left open is there.  Agree to a cease fire now, admit that joining NATO is OFF the table, and the US will negotiate a peace deal on their behalf with Russia.

Now, liar.  Show me the quote where Zelensky claims he has given up his dreams of joining NATO.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

It will be difficult without the U.S. support. But we can’t lose our will, our freedom, or our people. We’ve seen how Russians came to our homes and killed many people. Nobody wants another wave of occupation. If we cannot be accepted to NATO, we need some clear structure of security guarantees from our allies in the U.S

Jantje_Smit » Today, 7:31 am » wrote: ↑

Today, 7:31 am

What part of 'as part of efforts to end' don't you get?

Zelensky doesn't hold the cards to insist on anything, and a minerals deal would be a security in itself, Putin wouldn't bomb or take over any mines because that would piss Trump off..

first of all there could be attacks in ukraine other than the mines.

secondly putin does not care 2 cents about trump or his business adventures.   he may even enjoy bombing his mines.  

putin believes in a fair 2 state solution in israel while trump wants to evict the people in garza so he can build a resort in garza.

-------------------------------------------------------

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kr ... 025-02-05/

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov reiterated Moscow's position that the only way to resolve the Middle East conflict was through the creation of a Palestinian state to exist side-by-side with Israel.
"This is the thesis that is enshrined in the relevant U.N. Security Council resolution, this is the thesis that is shared by the overwhelming majority of countries involved in this problem. We proceed from it, we support it and believe that this is the only possible option," he told reporters.
Peskov added that Trump's resettlement idea had been rejected by major Arab capitals. 

 
 

Zeets2 » 54 minutes ago » wrote: ↑

54 minutes ago

Don't be an ***!
You know damn well that I'm a HUGE Trump supporter, and Trump WILL NOT agree to continue throwing money at them to continue the war!
YOU, on the other hand, support Biden's stupidity in telling Zelensky that joining NATO is up to Ukraine, and simultaneously telling the world that we will continue to support and fund them with taxpayer billions with no end in sight, WHICH TRUMP WILL NOT TOLERATE!

And if Ukraine wants to continue their war WITHOUT ANOTHER NICKEL FROM THE US, then they're perfectly within their rights to do so, and we WILL NOT BE INVOLVED IN ANY WAY!  And I have no problem with that, if that is what they choose to do ALONE!

The peace agreement Trump left open is there.  Agree to a cease fire now, admit that joining NATO is OFF the table, and the US will negotiate a peace deal on their behalf with Russia.

Now, liar.  Show me the quote where Zelensky claims he has given up his dreams of joining NATO.

trump will get us into ww3 in israel with his hotel gaza crap. and no other country I repeat no other country supports it except israel. russia is dead against it.

https://youtu.be/8miIf3I5aKk?si=PpfFLbDOKFuIftaT

Zeets2 » Today, 2:33 pm » wrote: ↑

Today, 2:33 pm

Don't be an ***!
You know damn well that I'm a HUGE Trump supporter, and Trump WILL NOT agree to continue throwing money at them to continue the war!
YOU, on the other hand, support Biden's stupidity in telling Zelensky that joining NATO is up to Ukraine, and simultaneously telling the world that we will continue to support and fund them with taxpayer billions with no end in sight, WHICH TRUMP WILL NOT TOLERATE!

And if Ukraine wants to continue their war WITHOUT ANOTHER NICKEL FROM THE US, then they're perfectly within their rights to do so, and we WILL NOT BE INVOLVED IN ANY WAY!  And I have no problem with that, if that is what they choose to do ALONE!

The peace agreement Trump left open is there.  Agree to a cease fire now, admit that joining NATO is OFF the table, and the US will negotiate a peace deal on their behalf with Russia.

Now, liar.  Show me the quote where Zelensky claims he has given up his dreams of joining NATO.

trump wants to spend billions rebuilding gaza. russia feels israel  bombed it, israel should pay for everything. trump wants to use US tax money to rebuild gaza, so do not tell trump is concerned about saving america money. no other country thinks anyone other than israel should rebuild gaza.

but you support trump bankrupting america.

Zeets2 » Today, 2:33 pm » wrote: ↑

Today, 2:33 pm

The peace agreement Trump left open is there.  Agree to a cease fire now, admit that joining NATO is OFF the table, and the US will negotiate a peace deal on their behalf with Russia.

 

agree to a cease fire with no guaranty russia won't attack again??

that is not anything but trash.

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/isr ... index.html

International Criminal Court issues arrest warrant for Netanyahu

------------------------------------------------------------------

https://news.sky.com/story/the-competin ... r-13321888


Arab leaders have adopted a plan to rebuild Gaza that will cost tens of billions of pounds - and is in stark contrast to President Donald Trump's proposal for the US to take control of the Palestinian territory.

Israel's military offensive in Gaza following the Hamas attacks on 7 October 2023 has left swathes of the densely populated enclave razed to the ground and nearly two million people displaced from their homes.

The ceasefire deal between Israel and Gaza's rulers Hamas, which includes Israeli hostages being exchanged for Palestinian prisoners, continues to hold - but has become very fragile following the end of phase one with no agreement on phase two.

Questions remain about the future of the Gaza Strip, such as who will pay for the reconstruction and who will govern it.

What is Egypt's plan for Gaza?

Discussed at a summit of Arab nations on Tuesday, the plan comes after Egypt, Jordan and the Gulf Arab states spent almost a month consulting on an alternative to Mr Trump's proposal.