1 Mar 2022 7:39 pm
For anyone interested in non-propaganda:
I have read sources that more or less echo the corrupt and lying mainstream media's narratives in the US as well as "pro Russia" propaganda regarding Russian actions as preemptive enterprise to prevent Ukraine from joining NATO - both with an open mind.
Regardless of how often the mainstream media lies, I will give their arguments a fair shake since I am a neutral arbitrator/bringer of righteous judgment.
It is entirely possible Russia has neo-imperial ambitions to gobble up Ukraine as it sees the country as rightfully part of "Mother Russia." This was echoed by an OpEd in the WaPo (which is about as MSM as you get).
Ukrainians, other than a few mostly ethnic Russian provinces in the East, do not see themselves as Russian. They are interested in becoming more like Western and Central Europe. Many pro-Putin websites and authors neglect to mention this. (@GeorgeWashington should take note of this as he assumed before that Ukrainians were mostly pro-Russia. The Western half is certainly not.)
If Pootie does conquer Ukraine, I can only imagine he will have extreme difficulty taming the population. If he decides to do some "regime change" but leaves Ukraine as an independent state that means we have misread his intentions, but I don't think Pootie's intentions are so noble.
Now let's talk about NATO.
NATO was supposed to disband after the fall of the Soviet Union, but they did not. There were also verbal agreements not to include former Soviet bloc countries into the alliance. While any former Soviet bloc country can apply, NATO can simply refuse; Russia wanted those countries to remain "neutral buffer states." Obviously, this request was denied as NATO slowly crept toward Russia's borders. Russia does not want missiles on its doorstep (a perfectly reasonable position).
Former military officials/state dept personnel even back when Bush 2 was pres. warned against inducting Ukraine as a member of NATO. It is precisely why Obama refused to consider it while he was President even though his CIA/NWO/(((globalist))) handlers wanted it.
(Credit should go to Obama even though he is indeed a servant of the globalists)
We also saw the CIA backed color revolution in Ukraine that spurred "regime change." The president of Ukraine showed interest in becoming a part of the EU and increasing economic ties with the West but backed off after threats from Putin. He was disposed of (likely) after the United States saw him as insufficiently bending to their will - too weak and impotent to carry out the globalists' orders.
There are many progressive and conservative retards who claimed that the Pres. Of Ukraine during the color revolution was "corrupt" and a massive grifter - thus the color revolution was justified. This is irrelevant. If we had a moral obligation to clean out corrupt politicians and grifters, well over 85% of our bureaucrats and politicians in Washington D.C. would get "cleaned out" (one can only wish that would happen)
Then you had "Russian stooge" Trump sending arms to Ukraine during his 4 years in office.
What you need to draw from this -
Putin may very well have invaded Ukraine even without NATO's intervention and meddling, but you can say both sides share the blame in what is unfolding. What percentage of blame you wish to assign is up to you, but these seem to be the facts I have gathered.
1 Nomination
Cannonpointer Mar 01, 2022
Go to original post on Mar 01, 2022 6:13pm
I have read sources that more or less echo the corrupt and lying mainstream media's narratives in the US as well as "pro Russia" propaganda regarding Russian actions as preemptive enterprise to prevent Ukraine from joining NATO - both with an open mind.
Regardless of how often the mainstream media lies, I will give their arguments a fair shake since I am a neutral arbitrator/bringer of righteous judgment.
It is entirely possible Russia has neo-imperial ambitions to gobble up Ukraine as it sees the country as rightfully part of "Mother Russia." This was echoed by an OpEd in the WaPo (which is about as MSM as you get).
Ukrainians, other than a few mostly ethnic Russian provinces in the East, do not see themselves as Russian. They are interested in becoming more like Western and Central Europe. Many pro-Putin websites and authors neglect to mention this. (@GeorgeWashington should take note of this as he assumed before that Ukrainians were mostly pro-Russia. The Western half is certainly not.)
If Pootie does conquer Ukraine, I can only imagine he will have extreme difficulty taming the population. If he decides to do some "regime change" but leaves Ukraine as an independent state that means we have misread his intentions, but I don't think Pootie's intentions are so noble.
Now let's talk about NATO.
NATO was supposed to disband after the fall of the Soviet Union, but they did not. There were also verbal agreements not to include former Soviet bloc countries into the alliance. While any former Soviet bloc country can apply, NATO can simply refuse; Russia wanted those countries to remain "neutral buffer states." Obviously, this request was denied as NATO slowly crept toward Russia's borders. Russia does not want missiles on its doorstep (a perfectly reasonable position).
Former military officials/state dept personnel even back when Bush 2 was pres. warned against inducting Ukraine as a member of NATO. It is precisely why Obama refused to consider it while he was President even though his CIA/NWO/(((globalist))) handlers wanted it.
(Credit should go to Obama even though he is indeed a servant of the globalists)
We also saw the CIA backed color revolution in Ukraine that spurred "regime change." The president of Ukraine showed interest in becoming a part of the EU and increasing economic ties with the West but backed off after threats from Putin. He was disposed of (likely) after the United States saw him as insufficiently bending to their will - too weak and impotent to carry out the globalists' orders.
There are many progressive and conservative retards who claimed that the Pres. Of Ukraine during the color revolution was "corrupt" and a massive grifter - thus the color revolution was justified. This is irrelevant. If we had a moral obligation to clean out corrupt politicians and grifters, well over 85% of our bureaucrats and politicians in Washington D.C. would get "cleaned out" (one can only wish that would happen)
Then you had "Russian stooge" Trump sending arms to Ukraine during his 4 years in office.
What you need to draw from this -
Putin may very well have invaded Ukraine even without NATO's intervention and meddling, but you can say both sides share the blame in what is unfolding. What percentage of blame you wish to assign is up to you, but these seem to be the facts I have gathered.
1 Nomination
Cannonpointer Mar 01, 2022
Go to original post on Mar 01, 2022 6:13pm