21 Dec 2021 12:22 pm
This thread is like a trainwreck and much like a trainwreck I can't help but watch in horrifying fascination.
I've been on forums since their beginning back in the 90s and I've wasted God knows how many thousands of hours arguing with someone who is disingenuous with their arguments. It took me years to learn that most people do not argue in the pursuit of truth. Most people argue simply to prove they are right.
People who argue as a pursuit of truth tend to be sincere in their arguments, and by arguments I mean: discussion, debate, investigation... WHen you are sincere in your pursuit of truth, then you have a vested interested in "the truth" and so, you not only make your arguments but you LISTEN to counter arguments, you hold your arguments to the same standards as you hold others' arguments to. When there is a flaw in your argument you acknowledge it and either correct/adjust your argument to account for the flaw or you discount your argument altogether and create a new argument or heaven forbid you accept the other side's argument as more valid than yours.
However, there is a dark side to arguments in which arguments can become a black hole in which any hope of escaping is doomed. WHen you argue with someone who has no interest in sincere and legitimate debate, you would have better luck building a castle on quicksand. When you argue with someone who only wants to "win" the argument then said person has no interest whatsoever in the truth, they are only interest in "winning" and they will win by Any Means Necessary-- Obfuscation, deflection, logical fallacy, attrition, falsehoods, misuse of nuance, moving the goal posts, demanding you jump through flaming hoops, etc etc. There is an infinite array of tools at the disposal of those who have no interest in sincere debate.
It is absolute and utter madness to argue with anyone who is not sincere in their debate and/or has no interest in the truth. I find that all political forums are rife with people who have no interest in sincere debate for a variety of reasons. One of the most common reasons is the human tendency to regard one's view as superior to others-- Ego and hubris and in politics this extends to ones entire party or political affiliation. Your side is awesome, righteous, virtuous, and moral while the other side is the exact opposite and downright evil...
IN any event, this thread was a sick sort of entertainment for me and also a reminder not to engage in arguments with people who are not sincere. Therein lies the path to madness
I've been on forums since their beginning back in the 90s and I've wasted God knows how many thousands of hours arguing with someone who is disingenuous with their arguments. It took me years to learn that most people do not argue in the pursuit of truth. Most people argue simply to prove they are right.
People who argue as a pursuit of truth tend to be sincere in their arguments, and by arguments I mean: discussion, debate, investigation... WHen you are sincere in your pursuit of truth, then you have a vested interested in "the truth" and so, you not only make your arguments but you LISTEN to counter arguments, you hold your arguments to the same standards as you hold others' arguments to. When there is a flaw in your argument you acknowledge it and either correct/adjust your argument to account for the flaw or you discount your argument altogether and create a new argument or heaven forbid you accept the other side's argument as more valid than yours.
However, there is a dark side to arguments in which arguments can become a black hole in which any hope of escaping is doomed. WHen you argue with someone who has no interest in sincere and legitimate debate, you would have better luck building a castle on quicksand. When you argue with someone who only wants to "win" the argument then said person has no interest whatsoever in the truth, they are only interest in "winning" and they will win by Any Means Necessary-- Obfuscation, deflection, logical fallacy, attrition, falsehoods, misuse of nuance, moving the goal posts, demanding you jump through flaming hoops, etc etc. There is an infinite array of tools at the disposal of those who have no interest in sincere debate.
It is absolute and utter madness to argue with anyone who is not sincere in their debate and/or has no interest in the truth. I find that all political forums are rife with people who have no interest in sincere debate for a variety of reasons. One of the most common reasons is the human tendency to regard one's view as superior to others-- Ego and hubris and in politics this extends to ones entire party or political affiliation. Your side is awesome, righteous, virtuous, and moral while the other side is the exact opposite and downright evil...
IN any event, this thread was a sick sort of entertainment for me and also a reminder not to engage in arguments with people who are not sincere. Therein lies the path to madness