Liberal Forum

Cannonpointer » Yesterday, 11:36 pm » wrote: ↑

Yesterday, 11:36 pm

 Ayn Rand - and not just the novels. The dry stuff. The Virtue of Selfishness, Capitalism, the Unknown Ideal - all that bunk. So I understand the libertarian tautology. And it was from within that tautology that libertarians and republicans alike took extreme umbrage at Obama's "You didn't build that" narrative,

I defended Obama's narrative then, and I am happy to defend it again. Whatever it is that you think you built, you did not build that. Outside of his society, a man is not a man at all. 

Plato spoke of the Ideal Sphere. This is a place beyond our three dimensions wherein reside the perfect examples and attributes of all things: the ideal chair, the ideal sofa, the ideal bed or barn or barge - the ideal of anything and everything. But however prodigious his talent, the artist did not create that.

Jung refers to this same realm as the "Collective Unconscious." I call it the getting place. Kristofferson was a regular visitor to the getting place/collective unconscious/ideal sphere. He authored some of the important and memorable music of a generation. But he **** up some of the songs he got out of there. "Help me make it through the night" could have been 100% better with a couple of tweaks to make it less rapey. But he had fallen in love with the song before he finished doing his due diligence - and I strongly believe that he paid a heavy price for that. IMO, your ability to bring excellent things out of that place hinges on how well you translate them when you get back into the world of our five senses. I believe he peaked with that song, and was never as potent again.

Okay - I **** on libertarianism, and I insinuated myself into the company of Plato and Jung. Bully for me.

I don't believe Bammy is as erudite as all that. He spoke from a teleprompter that was spewed crafted verbiage to a known set of hillbillies and ghetto blacks.
He just wanted the rich **** to realize they used the peons (to whom he was pandering) and didn't deserve to be elitists. And that they should appreciate the common clay (peons) upon which they walked. It was all political pandering in my view.

Plato's Ideal Sphere isn't something I'm familiar with. But, the concept of the perfect design is a goal I'm familiar with. It cannot be achieved but it can ALWAYS be a goal. Seems in the ballpark. The society/culture that creations come from is a double-edge sword: You build on the shoulders of giants (previous successes) while limited by the realities of resources and materials. Society/culture assists and limits simultaneously. Technologies, experience, knowledge, missteps, societal mood, etc. all evolve (or devolve).

To bluntly tell an ironworker or ER doctor, et al, their efforts don't mean **** is a Kris K. moment.
Bammy should have worked on the speech a couple more minutes.

btw
I have never completely abandoned the view of a spiritual life. I think it's a cringeworthy moment when people conjoin the spiritual with the religion (then utterly dismiss others that see them as separate facets of life). Being spiritual IS the belief upon which a religion rests. A "true believer" cannot question his faith unless his spiritual side has a dent in it.
Belonging to a Club that reads from the Book then sets up rules for their regular meetings. . . not at all for me. Religion and spiritualism have always had separate shelves in my closet. There is no which-came-first joke here.